The official Hurts/Minshew/Stinnett/Strong/EJ Perry containment thread

[brkmsn]

18 minutes ago, downundermike said:

That throw any NFL QB can make.

This is an arm strength throw, this is what we need our QB to be able to do.

 

This also is an example of good arm strength:

BTW, it's a slow motion replay --- I'm sure that's Hurts' fault too. 

[brkmsn]

6 minutes ago, Vileborg said:

It was a decent throw and great result. Sadly, we didn't get any points on that drive. He went 11-22 for 99 yards the rest of the game and we only put up 11 points.

Had they called either the facemask or horse collar and tacked that on, we might have had a better drive ending (both of those infractions were necessary to stop Watkins from getting the TD). There's nothing we can do about uncalled penalties. 

[brkmsn]

 

[ToastJenkins]

1 hour ago, Vileborg said:

It was a decent throw and great result. Sadly, we didn't get any points on that drive. He went 11-22 for 99 yards the rest of the game and we only put up 11 points.

You and your…facts

[Swoop]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

lol @ "had to slow down for." Point proven. Was it some stupendous, unbelievable throw? No. But it was perfectly timed, perfectly placed, and hit the receiver in stride. You guys can't even acknowledge that and have to make up some fake thing that happened so you can criticize Hurts for that play.

 

"... had to slow down for" 

Thank you for proving my point.

Like I said, it wasn't a bad throw. Had he led him a bit more, it would've had a better chance of actually scoring a TD. As it is, it almost was. 

If you want to crown him for a floater, by all means. 

[ToastJenkins]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

 

Another blooper? Seriously?

why are you so desperate to prop up a mediocre at best player?

[Diehardfan]

8 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Thank you for proving my point.

Like I said, it wasn't a bad throw. Had he led him a bit more, it would've had a better chance of actually scoring a TD. As it is, it almost was. 

If you want to crown him for a floater, by all means. 

They have to grasp at straws because he sucks.  

8 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Another blooper? Seriously?

why are you so desperate to prop up a mediocre at best player?

Cause he is the QB with swag

[Diehardfan]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

 

Bucs proved he is a b***h The end. 

[brkmsn]

12 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Bucs proved he is a b***h The end. 

Jon Runyan should have quit the NFL after his first game against Strahan, I guess. 

 ... or maybe one game isn't "the end."

[brkmsn]

27 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Another blooper? Seriously?

why are you so desperate to prop up a mediocre at best player?

Why is it so important to others that I give up on a young player who I feel improved from year 1 to year 2? We can dump Hurts today and start Minshew and all we'll be reading about is all the things he didn't do. We can dump Hurts and Minshew, start Strong and a year later, read about how he hasn't become the best QB in the NFL and we need to go another direction because if something hasn't happened  (win a Super Bowl and be MVP), it clearly never will. 

I'm not desperate, I'm just not a pessimist.

[ToastJenkins]

52 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Jon Runyan should have quit the NFL after his first game against Strahan, I guess. 

 ... or maybe one game isn't "the end."

Runyan was a dominant player with a high ceiling

hurts is more of a mediocre ceiling

[brkmsn]

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

Runyan was a dominant player with a high ceiling

hurts is more of a mediocre ceiling

Hurts is neither of these guys, but both Tom Brady and Kurt Warner had "low ceilings." The problem with floors and ceilings is they aren't real. They are man-made projections.

[Diehardfan]

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Jon Runyan should have quit the NFL after his first game against Strahan, I guess. 

 ... or maybe one game isn't "the end."

LOL not even close to the same thing as a QB consistently proving he can't read a defense or see the field at the end of his second season in the NFL in a playoff game. Wentz was on his way to NFL MVP in his 2nd year. Joe had the Bengals in the SB. Wilson went on the road his rookie year and won his first playoff game. Hurts....he crapped the bed at the end of his second year and the only reason they were in the playoffs to begin with was the OL and the run game playing against bad teams.

[Diehardfan]

3 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Why is it so important to others that I give up on a young player who I feel improved from year 1 to year 2? We can dump Hurts today and start Minshew and all we'll be reading about is all the things he didn't do. We can dump Hurts and Minshew, start Strong and a year later, read about how he hasn't become the best QB in the NFL and we need to go another direction because if something hasn't happened  (win a Super Bowl and be MVP), it clearly never will. 

I'm not desperate, I'm just not a pessimist.

Put Strong in and we'll see a real freaking QB with potential.

[Vileborg]

45 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Hurts is neither of these guys, but both Tom Brady and Kurt Warner had "low ceilings." The problem with floors and ceilings is they aren't real. They are man-made projections.

Both those guys won a super bowl in their first full year as a starter. No doubt if Hurts won a super bowl last year we'd be more amped. He'll get his shot to show he's the next GOAT this year. I'm just a little skeptical that's all.

[ToastJenkins]

7 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Hurts is neither of these guys, but both Tom Brady and Kurt Warner had "low ceilings." The problem with floors and ceilings is they aren't real. They are man-made projections.

Everything forward looking is a projection. For any player. 

as i have said before, if you have to point to the outliers as a rationale, your argument is too weak to stand. Hoping for a lottery ticket isnt a plan.  
 

but even as an exercise, their shortcomings werent the ability to read a defense or throw the football. Now how many successful qbs can you point to with hurts flaws? The occasional flash in the pan runner like Kaep maybe? Who never won much of anything and was quickly solved?

knowing when to stop throwing good resources after bad is essential to improving the team

[jsb235]

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

Everything forward looking is a projection. For any player. 

as i have said before, if you have to point to the outliers as a rationale, your argument is too weak to stand. Hoping for a lottery ticket isnt a plan.

This is such a strange argument. There is plenty of evidence that qbs with a similar profile to Hurts have been successful in the NFL. Steve McNair. Kordell Stewart. Cam Newton. Russell Wilson.

Look at Wilson specifically. In his first season as a starter, the Seahawks were last in the league in pass attempts, 27th in passing yards,  and first in the league in rushing. The year they won the Super Bowl they were second to last in the league in passing attempts, 26th in passing yards and top five in rushing.

In fact, the Eagles ranked higher in yards per game last year with Hurts (14th) than the Seahawks did with Wilson in 2013 (17th).

Rolling with Hurts isn't a lottery ticket, it's following a blueprint that won a team a Super Bowl less than 10 years ago.  

[ToastJenkins]

Wilson is a terrible comp for him

newton a better one but he had a huge arm. And was a flash in the pan that couldnt win a title

[jsb235]

3 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Wilson is a terrible comp for him

So the qb for a team that was at the bottom of the league in passing and top of the league in rushing is a bad comp for Hurts?

I thought your whole schtick was that a team that didn't pass the ball couldn't win in the NFL?

On his way to the Super Bowl title, Wilson passed for 106, 193 and 206 yards in his three games. So tell me again why it is a bad comparison?

[eglz1]

38 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

This is such a strange argument. There is plenty of evidence that qbs with a similar profile to Hurts have been successful in the NFL. Steve McNair. Kordell Stewart. Cam Newton. Russell Wilson.

Look at Wilson specifically. In his first season as a starter, the Seahawks were last in the league in pass attempts, 27th in passing yards,  and first in the league in rushing. The year they won the Super Bowl they were second to last in the league in passing attempts, 26th in passing yards and top five in rushing.

In fact, the Eagles ranked higher in yards per game last year with Hurts (14th) than the Seahawks did with Wilson in 2013 (17th).

Rolling with Hurts isn't a lottery ticket, it's following a blueprint that won a team a Super Bowl less than 10 years ago.  

That "blueprint" featured a best-in-the league defense or nearly so. How have Russell's teams done when that defense got old and the offense had to score points?

[ToastJenkins]

15 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

So the qb for a team that was at the bottom of the league in passing and top of the league in rushing is a bad comp for Hurts?

I thought your whole schtick was that a team that didn't pass the ball couldn't win in the NFL?

On his way to the Super Bowl title, Wilson passed for 106, 193 and 206 yards in his three games. So tell me again why it is a bad comparison?

Ben did similar.

have to look at weight of evidence. Wilson had the arm and processing to compensate for his height. Hurts appears to have neither 

[brkmsn]

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

Everything forward looking is a projection. For any player. 

as i have said before, if you have to point to the outliers as a rationale, your argument is too weak to stand. Hoping for a lottery ticket isnt a plan.  
 

but even as an exercise, their shortcomings werent the ability to read a defense or throw the football. Now how many successful qbs can you point to with hurts flaws? The occasional flash in the pan runner like Kaep maybe? Who never won much of anything and was quickly solved?

knowing when to stop throwing good resources after bad is essential to improving the team

First, I just don't agree with your assessment that he can't read a defense or throw the football. I would like to see improvement in his decision making, but that typically comes with good coaching and experience. I feel he's on track there. McNabb is a local example of a QB that  absolutely had those flaws. The way Reid handled it is he babied McNabb with a simpler (short-pass heavy) version of the WCO for the first few years. It wasn't until the arrival of Owens that we really opened up the offense and started using the whole field.

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV	Awards
1999	23	PHI	qb	5	12	6	2-4-0	106	216	49.1	948	8	3.7	7	3.2	55	63	4.4	3.7	8.9	79.0	60.1		28	204	11.5	3.05	2.41	1	2	1
2000*	24	PHI	QB	5	16	16	11-5-0	330	569	58	3365	21	3.7	13	2.3	181	70	5.9	5.6	10.2	210.3	77.8		45	262	7.3	5.05	4.79	2	3	15	AP MVP-2, AP OPoY-4, PB
2001*	25	PHI	QB	5	16	16	11-5-0	285	493	57.8	3233	25	5.1	12	2.4	134	64	6.6	6.5	11.3	202.1	84.3		39	273	7.3	5.56	5.49	2	2	14	PB
2002*	26	PHI	QB	5	10	10	7-3-0	211	361	58.4	2289	17	4.7	6	1.7	108	59	6.3	6.5	10.8	228.9	86.0		28	166	7.2	5.46	5.64	0	1	10	PB
2003*	27	PHI	QB	5	16	16	12-4-0	275	478	57.5	3216	16	3.3	11	2.3	153	59	6.7	6.4	11.7	201.0	79.6		43	253	8.3	5.69	5.35	2	4	15	PB

 

Sirianni hasn't babied Hurts by simplifying the passing game as much as he's devised the offense around Hurts' crutch. McNabb hated being called a running QB, but that was clearly his strength. McNabb left a lot of plays on the field later in his career by choosing not to run (in an effort to change the perception about him). 

 

 

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	Sk%	NY/A	ANY/A	4QC	GWD	AV
2020	22	PHI		2	15	4	1-3-0	77	148	52	1061	6	4.1	4	2.7	45	81	7.2	6.8	13.8	70.7	77.6	33.8	13	59	8.1	6.22	5.85			4
2021	23	PHI	QB	1	15	15	8-7-0	265	432	61.3	3144	16	3.7	9	2.1	143	91	7.3	7.1	11.9	209.6	87.2	48.5	26	150	5.7	6.54	6.35	2

 

Hurts is not Joe Burrow, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner or Matt Stadford, but there's no reason to think he can't be at least as successful as McNabb, if not more. And what does McNabb think?

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/still-believe-eagles-jalen-hurts-donovan-mcnabb-preaches-patience#:~:text=And he thinks Hurts will,a leader of this team.

Cunningham on Hurts: https://www.nfl.com/videos/randall-cunningham-explains-why-he-s-all-in-on-jalen-hurts

[jsb235]

26 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Wilson had the arm and processing to compensate for his height. Hurts appears to have neither 

Wilson doesn't have a great arm.

In a list of best arms from 2013, he didn't make the top 6, while players like Josh Freeman and Joe Flacco did.

He was not considered a top 10 qb. Here is a review of him prior to the season.

"Wilson is constantly looking to extend the play and make a big throw. He can run around and pick up first downs with his legs if need be, but he's also adept at throwing on the run."

Sound like anyone we know?   

[brkmsn]

2 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Wilson doesn't have a great arm.

In a list of best arms from 2013, he didn't make the top 6, while players like Josh Freeman and Joe Flacco did.

He was not considered a top 10 qb. Here is a review of him prior to the season.

"Wilson is constantly looking to extend the play and make a big throw. He can run around and pick up first downs with his legs if need be, but he's also adept at throwing on the run."

Sound like anyone we know?   

I think what typically happens is that as fans of the Eagles, most of us sit through everything. We watch every game, every play --- sometimes every miserable play. When we see players from other teams, it's a smaller play sample and sometimes it's just from highlights. So people create these perceptions that players on other teams are more perfect than players on our own team. It's the grass is always greener perspective. From afar, that grass does look greener, but when you inspect it up close, you see all the bare spots and imperfections. 

[ToastJenkins]

I put no weight in what they say they arent going to torpedo him