Quez Watkins

[brkmsn]

On 4/8/2023 at 12:39 AM, EazyEaglez said:

No one is expecting Quez to make this a 3 1000 yard receiver team, (especially since the Eagles run so much) but is it too much to ask him to hold onto the ball after a big catch? Is it too much to ask to contribute more on special teams? Is it too much to ask for him not to be the cause of turnovers? Thought Quez could at least provide Jason Avant type numbers, but he’s more of a Greg Lewis type. 

Jason Avant's career with the Eagles:

					Games		Receiving											Rushing								Total Yds
Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	1D	Lng	R/G	Y/G	Ctch%	Y/Tgt	Rush	Yds	TD	1D	Lng	Y/A	Y/G	A/G	Touch	Y/Tch	YScm	RRTD	Fmb	AV
2006	23	PHI	WR	81	8	3	14	7	68	9.7	1	5	18	0.9	8.5	50.0%	4.9			0						7	9.7	68	1	1	1
2007	24	PHI	WR	81	15	5	33	23	267	11.6	2	16	31	1.5	17.8	69.7%	8.1	1	1	0	0	1	1.0	0.1	0.1	24	11.2	268	2	0	2
2008	25	PHI	WR	81	15	6	57	32	377	11.8	2	22	31	2.1	25.1	56.1%	6.6			0						32	11.8	377	2	0	3
2009	26	PHI	WR	81	16	9	58	41	587	14.3	3	24	58	2.6	36.7	70.7%	10.1			0						41	14.3	587	3	1	6
2010	27	PHI	WR	81	16	3	76	51	573	11.2	1	29	34	3.2	35.8	67.1%	7.5			0						51	11.2	573	1	0	5
2011	28	PHI	WR	81	16	7	81	52	679	13.1	1	32	35	3.3	42.4	64.2%	8.4			0						52	13.1	679	1	2	5
2012	29	PHI	WR	81	14	6	76	53	648	12.2	0	31	39	3.8	46.3	69.7%	8.5			0						53	12.2	648	0	1	4
2013	30	PHI	WR	81	16	13	77	38	447	11.8	2	24	31	2.4	27.9	49.4%	5.8			0						38	11.8	447	2	1	4

 

Quez Watkins' career with the Eagles:

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	1D	Lng	R/G	Y/G	Ctch%	Y/Tgt	Rush	Yds	TD	1D	Lng	Y/A	Y/G	A/G	Touch	Y/Tch	YScm	RRTD	Fmb	AV
2020	22	PHI	WR	80	6	0	13	7	106	15.1	1	4	43	1.2	17.7	53.8%	8.2			0						7	15.1	106	1	0	1
2021	23	PHI	WR	16	17	12	62	43	647	15.0	1	25	91	2.5	38.1	69.4%	10.4	1	3	0	0	3	3.0	0.2	0.1	44	14.8	650	1	0	7
2022	24	PHI	WR	16	17	8	51	33	354	10.7	3	13	53	1.9	20.8	64.7%	6.9	3	1	0	0	4	0.3	0.1	0.2	36	9.9	355	3	1	4

 

I'm not seeing where you have a problem based on your statement. Quez has out-produced Avant through his first 3 seasons on a team that runs more than it passes. Most of the time Avant was here this team was a pass first team where the balance was clearly favoring the pass. 

 

We have already established that Watkins made some mistakes last season. But when you consider that most of those bad plays came after the shoulder injury that he didn't miss a single (whole) game with that was slightly worse than the one Jalen Hurts suffered, it makes sense that he looked soft and hesitant out there on plays. Regardless, if the "bar" is Avant, then Watkins is getting the job done. Avant wasn't asked to stretch the field because he wasn't a fast WR. So he was mostly a safety valve for his QB. Watkins has a different role for this offense and his production is at least on par with Avant. 

[NOTW]

Fans get pretty worked up about the 4th or 5th receiving options. 

Quez didn't make as many mistakes previously. He'll work this offseason to correct those. It's a prove it year for him. 

The offense will still primarily be Brown, Smith & Goedert. 

[eagle45]

Once every couple years, I post this and people get upset with me…but I think Jason Avant was very overrated here.

zero red zone threat.  Zero yac.  Never open.  Knack for shielding the defender and catching first downs underneath.  That’s a #3 slot wr from 1995.  He was in an otherwise high powered offense.

Meh.  In 2023, I would set the bar higher for any #3 wr.

[EagleVA]

On 4/8/2023 at 10:18 AM, eagle45 said:

 I don’t like any of the replacement options in the draft.  

I didn't either until I ran across Bryce Ford-Wheaton, he would definitely take someone's job and it would be a flip of the coin as to whose job. 

[EagleVA]

On 2/15/2023 at 4:24 PM, EazyEaglez said:

By the way you presume too much on your so called fair assessments, because your take on Smith is the worst on this board.

Everyone throws out the 1,000 yard receiver when speaking of Smith, but through 17 games that's only 58.8 YPG.

My take on Smith has always been he's not a #1 receiver, he's more in line with a possession receiver as is evident by his 12.6 YPC, while Goddert had a 12.8 YPC.

Moreover, he had more receptions than Brown, 95 vs 88, while Brown averaged 17.0 YPC, I bet the targets has more disparity than receptions.. 

IDK, 95 receptions for a 12.6 PC seems excessive to me.

[NOTW]

PFN draft simulator now allows players. Not sure what criteria makes them available but Quez is the only Eagle available to trade.

 

[brkmsn]

14 hours ago, EagleVA said:

Everyone throws out the 1,000 yard receiver when speaking of Smith, but through 17 games that's only 58.8 YPG.

My take on Smith has always been he's not a #1 receiver, he's more in line with a possession receiver as is evident by his 12.6 YPC, while Goddert had a 12.8 YPC.

Moreover, he had more receptions than Brown, 95 vs 88, while Brown averaged 17.0 YPC, I bet the targets has more disparity than receptions.. 

IDK, 95 receptions for a 12.6 PC seems excessive to me.

Only 22 players broke 1000 yards receiving in 2022. Only 9 had 1196 yards or more. Only 8 of them were WRs. 1196 in 17 games = 70.4 yards per game (a little more than the 58.8 you brought up). 

YPC is universally used to represent Yards Per Carry. Receivers get YPR (Yards Per Reception). Smith's career average is 13.3 YPR. Davanta Adams' career YPR is 12.4. DeAndre Hopkins' career YPR is 13.2. Stefon Diggs'  career YPR is 12.9.

IDK ... Maybe you don't watch many NFL games? 

[judunno]

15 hours ago, EagleVA said:

Everyone throws out the 1,000 yard receiver when speaking of Smith, but through 17 games that's only 58.8 YPG.

My take on Smith has always been he's not a #1 receiver, he's more in line with a possession receiver as is evident by his 12.6 YPC, while Goddert had a 12.8 YPC.

Moreover, he had more receptions than Brown, 95 vs 88, while Brown averaged 17.0 YPC, I bet the targets has more disparity than receptions.. 

IDK, 95 receptions for a 12.6 PC seems excessive to me.

Smith had closer to 1200 yards. In his 2nd year. That's damn good my man.

[nipples]

On 4/10/2023 at 5:54 PM, EagleVA said:

Everyone throws out the 1,000 yard receiver when speaking of Smith, but through 17 games that's only 58.8 YPG.

My take on Smith has always been he's not a #1 receiver, he's more in line with a possession receiver as is evident by his 12.6 YPC, while Goddert had a 12.8 YPC.

Moreover, he had more receptions than Brown, 95 vs 88, while Brown averaged 17.0 YPC, I bet the targets has more disparity than receptions.. 

IDK, 95 receptions for a 12.6 PC seems excessive to me.

Dude… he was 8th in receiving yards last season among all WRs. He was 9th in receptions. 
 

If your one gripe is his yards per reception, and that means he’s not a #1 guy in your mind, then I’m curious what you think of DK Metcalf (11.6 yards per catch) and Ja’Marr Chase (12.0 yards per catch). 

[T-1000]

Whether you like Quez as the 3 or not depth is an issue. If nothing else they need a reliable veteran who is ok. Right now Covey is the 4th WR. I would definitely be kicking the tires on Landry, Zaccheaus, and Robinson.

[brkmsn]

1 hour ago, T-1000 said:

 a reliable veteran who is ok. 

= Greg Ward

I'm not saying we can't upgrade, but I'm not overly concerned at the moment. I feel we have other, more pressing areas of concern to focus on in the draft. There will always be a couple vets available in a pinch. 

[EagleVA]

7 hours ago, nipples said:

If your one gripe is his yards per reception, and that means he’s not a #1 guy in your mind, then I’m curious what you think of DK Metcalf (11.6 yards per catch) and Ja’Marr Chase (12.0 yards per catch). 

The discussion had nothing to do with Metcalf or Chase, it was about Smith, and to me, 12.6 YPC is more in line with a possession receiver, but if someone else thinks otherwise, more power to them, I was simply giving my reason why I don't think as highly of Smith as others.

[brkmsn]

4 hours ago, EagleVA said:

The discussion had nothing to do with Metcalf or Chase, it was about Smith, and to me, 12.6 YPC is more in line with a possession receiver, but if someone else thinks otherwise, more power to them, I was simply giving my reason why I don't think as highly of Smith as others.

Is Quez Watkins (10.7 YPR in 2022 --- 13.3 YPR career (Exactly the same as Smith)) a "possession receiver" then?

[The Holy Vagabond]

What are you guys trying to do? Talk him out of his **** opinion? It’s his stupid hill. Let him die on it. 

[brkmsn]

3 hours ago, The Holy Vagabond said:

What are you guys trying to do? 

Keep discussions going on a message board. I guess we could just all log out. 

[EagleVA]

On 4/12/2023 at 7:04 PM, brkmsn said:

Is Quez Watkins (10.7 YPR in 2022 --- 13.3 YPR career (Exactly the same as Smith)) a "possession receiver" then?

If he had 99 receptions and those were the numbers, since they are possession receiver numbers that's what you'd have.

Problem is, he didn't have 99 receptions, and many of the reception that he did get was that silly WR screen or what ever that was.

Also, much of the YPR numbers are generated by RAC and I'm not impressed with Smith's RAC either, he looks like Zach Ertz II.  

[brkmsn]

13 hours ago, EagleVA said:

If he had 99 receptions and those were the numbers, since they are possession receiver numbers that's what you'd have.

Problem is, he didn't have 99 receptions, and many of the reception that he did get was that silly WR screen or what ever that was.

Also, much of the YPR numbers are generated by RAC and I'm not impressed with Smith's RAC either, he looks like Zach Ertz II.  

His 5.2 YAC per reception didn't impress you? Did you find the  4.1 YAC per reception that Tyreek Hill had last year (4.0 the year before) all that more impressive?

One thing about you, is that you stay true to your beliefs even after presented with overwhelming evidence that contradicts them. You had made up your mind about Smith before we ever drafted him and haven't budged on your "analysis" of him as a player. I'm not even sure what "being a possession receiver" means in your mind, but that's a very important trait for a WR1. It means you can run routes, get open, make catches and are reliable. If your WR1 lacks in any of those areas, your passing offense would be in trouble. It would be like Willie Gault with Chicago in the '80s. 

The above tweet isn't just the passer rating when they catch passes, it's the rating when targeted. 

 

Also:

Jason Avant explains DeVonta Smith’s unique speed

 

[EagleVA]

On 4/16/2023 at 11:06 AM, brkmsn said:

One thing about you, is that you stay true to your beliefs even after presented with overwhelming evidence that contradicts them. You had made up your mind about Smith before we ever drafted him and haven't budged on your "analysis" of him as a player. I'm not even sure what "being a possession receiver" means in your mind, but that's a very important trait for a WR1. It means you can run routes, get open, make catches and are reliable. If your WR1 lacks in any of those areas, your passing offense would be in trouble. It would be like Willie Gault with Chicago in the '80s. 

I didn't do any analysis on Smith before the draft so stop it with the lies.

Bottom line, you think Smith is all that and I don't, apparently we have different criteria for measuring WR1.

 

 

 

[EazyEaglez]

On 4/9/2023 at 10:13 AM, brkmsn said:

Jason Avant's career with the Eagles:

					Games		Receiving											Rushing								Total Yds
Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	1D	Lng	R/G	Y/G	Ctch%	Y/Tgt	Rush	Yds	TD	1D	Lng	Y/A	Y/G	A/G	Touch	Y/Tch	YScm	RRTD	Fmb	AV
2006	23	PHI	WR	81	8	3	14	7	68	9.7	1	5	18	0.9	8.5	50.0%	4.9			0						7	9.7	68	1	1	1
2007	24	PHI	WR	81	15	5	33	23	267	11.6	2	16	31	1.5	17.8	69.7%	8.1	1	1	0	0	1	1.0	0.1	0.1	24	11.2	268	2	0	2
2008	25	PHI	WR	81	15	6	57	32	377	11.8	2	22	31	2.1	25.1	56.1%	6.6			0						32	11.8	377	2	0	3
2009	26	PHI	WR	81	16	9	58	41	587	14.3	3	24	58	2.6	36.7	70.7%	10.1			0						41	14.3	587	3	1	6
2010	27	PHI	WR	81	16	3	76	51	573	11.2	1	29	34	3.2	35.8	67.1%	7.5			0						51	11.2	573	1	0	5
2011	28	PHI	WR	81	16	7	81	52	679	13.1	1	32	35	3.3	42.4	64.2%	8.4			0						52	13.1	679	1	2	5
2012	29	PHI	WR	81	14	6	76	53	648	12.2	0	31	39	3.8	46.3	69.7%	8.5			0						53	12.2	648	0	1	4
2013	30	PHI	WR	81	16	13	77	38	447	11.8	2	24	31	2.4	27.9	49.4%	5.8			0						38	11.8	447	2	1	4

 

Quez Watkins' career with the Eagles:

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	1D	Lng	R/G	Y/G	Ctch%	Y/Tgt	Rush	Yds	TD	1D	Lng	Y/A	Y/G	A/G	Touch	Y/Tch	YScm	RRTD	Fmb	AV
2020	22	PHI	WR	80	6	0	13	7	106	15.1	1	4	43	1.2	17.7	53.8%	8.2			0						7	15.1	106	1	0	1
2021	23	PHI	WR	16	17	12	62	43	647	15.0	1	25	91	2.5	38.1	69.4%	10.4	1	3	0	0	3	3.0	0.2	0.1	44	14.8	650	1	0	7
2022	24	PHI	WR	16	17	8	51	33	354	10.7	3	13	53	1.9	20.8	64.7%	6.9	3	1	0	0	4	0.3	0.1	0.2	36	9.9	355	3	1	4

 

I'm not seeing where you have a problem based on your statement. Quez has out-produced Avant through his first 3 seasons on a team that runs more than it passes. Most of the time Avant was here this team was a pass first team where the balance was clearly favoring the pass. 

 

We have already established that Watkins made some mistakes last season. But when you consider that most of those bad plays came after the shoulder injury that he didn't miss a single (whole) game with that was slightly worse than the one Jalen Hurts suffered, it makes sense that he looked soft and hesitant out there on plays. Regardless, if the "bar" is Avant, then Watkins is getting the job done. Avant wasn't asked to stretch the field because he wasn't a fast WR. So he was mostly a safety valve for his QB. Watkins has a different role for this offense and his production is at least on par with Avant. 

Avant made 1st down catches on 3rd downs on a consistent basis. Watkins drops easy catches while people make excuses for him. 🤷‍♂️

[brkmsn]

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Avant made 1st down catches on 3rd downs on a consistent basis. Watkins drops easy catches while people make excuses for him. 🤷‍♂️

You're building Avant into some kind of legend. He had bad games too. He dropped a couple easy passes too. Watkins had a very good 2021 season. He only had 1 drop that year. 2022 was disappointing (3 drops). I expect him to rebound. If Jason Avant is the bar, this should be easy. 

[birdman#12]

All Quez has to do is catch the ball when he gets the opportunities.  

If he had done that this past year, his numbers would have jumped and his opportunities would have jumped.  

He gets open......he just needs to catch the dam ball.

[EazyEaglez]

10 hours ago, brkmsn said:

You're building Avant into some kind of legend. He had bad games too. He dropped a couple easy passes too. Watkins had a very good 2021 season. He only had 1 drop that year. 2022 was disappointing (3 drops). I expect him to rebound. If Jason Avant is the bar, this should be easy. 

I’m not building Avant into anything bud. Just a guy who catches the ball when it’s thrown his way. He’s also was an effective special teams player. I’m just asking Watkins to be Jason Avant average and he can’t do that. 

[brkmsn]

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’m not building Avant into anything bud. Just a guy who catches the ball when it’s thrown his way. He’s also was an effective special teams player. I’m just asking Watkins to be Jason Avant average and he can’t do that. 

Watkins had a handful of bad plays last season and people are dwelling on them a little too much. Just because of those does not mean he "can't do that." He absolutely can do that. He showed that in 2021. What we need/want from him is to at the very least perform at his 2021 level. Watkins wants that as well which is something I take as a positive. 

This isn't about "people making excuses." Even Jalen Hurts has had ups and downs as a starter. Why were we patient with him after a few mistakes, but not with a guy like Quez who also showed promise? In 2021, Jalen started great. Then he looked average to kind of bad for several weeks. Then he began to show signs of greatness, but lacked consistency. Things were looking up. Then he had a terrible game in the playoff game vs Tampa. Was that enough to get me to ignore the promise he showed and jump on the Carson Strong bandwagon? No. I understand young players have to experience adversity and if greatness is in their future, that adversity will help shape that future. Quez understands he needs to be better and is ready to work toward that goal. I respect that and am rooting for him, just like I was rooting for Hurts after the conclusion of 2021. 

[Heavywchamp]

On 4/6/2023 at 8:07 AM, brkmsn said:

Who said the spot isn't an open competition?

Not me. People has this guy embedded as WR3 but I'm sure he has to be on notice right now and fighting for his spot. I wonder if he seem a bit intimidated by the success of Smitty and AJ. 

[Heavywchamp]

On 4/7/2023 at 9:18 PM, EagleVA said:

Honestly, this sounds just like the conversation we heard concerning Jalen Hurts last offseason, I'm sure Watkins will be shutting you guys up just like Jalen did.

So are you admitting Hurts proved you wrong?