Quez Watkins

[EagleVA]

On 7/9/2023 at 2:27 PM, EazyEaglez said:

It's also pointless to throw the ball deep to wide receiver with one of the highest drop rates in the NFL too. He's not good because he's fast.

You're FOS as brkmsn pointed out.

[eagle45]

2021: Quez made people look like they were standing still.  He was wide open blazing downfield.  Hurts sucked.  He couldn't get Quez the ball.

2022: Hurts came into his own and was dealing.  With Devonta in year 2 and AJ Brown as the dominant 1/2, Quez was out of position in the slot and out of mind as the #4 option.  His focused suffered and he was unreliable the few times that his number was called.

2023: The Hurts->Smith and Hurts -> Brown connections aren't catching anyone by surprise anymore.  Doesn't mean they won't be as effective and dominant as before, but it does mean defenses will be sitting on that.  Don't take this the wrong way, but the Brown/Smith/Goedert combination is far from the world's fastest offense.  

I think they are going to need Quez this year...and this time, I think both he and Hurts will be ready at the same time.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

On 7/18/2023 at 1:39 AM, eagle45 said:

2021: Quez made people look like they were standing still.  He was wide open blazing downfield.  Hurts sucked.  He couldn't get Quez the ball.

2022: Hurts came into his own and was dealing.  With Devonta in year 2 and AJ Brown as the dominant 1/2, Quez was out of position in the slot and out of mind as the #4 option.  His focused suffered and he was unreliable the few times that his number was called.

2023: The Hurts->Smith and Hurts -> Brown connections aren't catching anyone by surprise anymore.  Doesn't mean they won't be as effective and dominant as before, but it does mean defenses will be sitting on that.  Don't take this the wrong way, but the Brown/Smith/Goedert combination is far from the world's fastest offense.  

I think they are going to need Quez this year...and this time, I think both he and Hurts will be ready at the same time.

Yeah defending two #1 receivers and a top 3 tight end on a team with a top quality run game is a piece of cake, teams just needed a full year of tape to figure it out. 

We're sure to need ole stonehands Watkins and his .13 of a second extra pace this year.

[EazyEaglez]

On 7/16/2023 at 9:57 PM, EagleVA said:

You're FOS as brkmsn pointed out.

You are incapable of making an analysis of anything. 

[EazyEaglez]

Anyone remember "fast Batman” from last year? Yeah that was Quez, but he didn’t live up to the moniker ever after the Eagles lost Goedert for multiple games due to injury. The guy did not play well last year and was never as good as some people around here are trying to act like he was. He’s a mediocre football player and will never be more than a 3rd - 5th option of a player. That’s the truth. Deal with it. 

[brkmsn]

Let me know when predictions are truth ... 

[EazyEaglez]

According to some he’s great at catching passes though.  

[brkmsn]

16 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

According to some he’s great at catching passes though.  

You have no idea what that stat even refers to. So if you are going to use a stat that only rates completions(QB) / receptions(WR) to somehow infer a WR can't catch passes, it makes you look like an idiot. I mean, we just went over this a few posts earlier and you already jump right back on this acting like it means something completely different. Here you go --- for the second time:

"A failed completion is any completed pass that fails to gain 45% of needed yards on first down, 60% on second down, or 100% on third or fourth down."

 

[EazyEaglez]

14 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

You have no idea what that stat even refers to. So if you are going to use a stat that only rates completions(QB) / receptions(WR) to somehow infer a WR can't catch passes, it makes you look like an idiot. I mean, we just went over this a few posts earlier and you already jump right back on this acting like it means something completely different. Here you go --- for the second time:

"A failed completion is any completed pass that fails to gain 45% of needed yards on first down, 60% on second down, or 100% on third or fourth down."

 

I’ll keep it simple. It means when the quarterbacks threw the ball to this guy a lot of stuff can happen and most of it wasn’t catching passes. I know you love videos of guys running around and not catching jack, but the reality is that isn’t good football despite how much you want to defend it like a fool. 

[brkmsn]

5 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’ll keep it simple. It means when the quarterbacks threw the ball to this guy a lot of stuff can happen and most of it wasn’t catching passes. I know you love videos of guys running around and not catching jack, but the reality is that isn’t good football despite how much you want to defend it like a fool. 

No. The stat you keep touting as meaning a guy can't catch is talking about exactly the opposite. How dense can you be ... really? "Failed reception rate" only has to do with receptions and is based 100% on the yardage gained from each reception depending on the down. Heck, DeAndre Hopkins has been among the leaders in failed reception rate before. The stat alone doesn't pin the blame on one player. In actuality, it shows people the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of play design and execution. These are only COMPLETED catches. They have absolutely nothing to do with incomplete passes or drops. I realize that you want the opposite to be true, but it just isn't. 

In 2021, Sirianni revamped the offense to run off Hurts' strengths. In that season, Reagor was our slot WR. We all know how that season went for Reagor and we all know about the passes he didn't catch. But what about the passes he did catch? Well, he was among the leaders in failed reception rate. That means the yardage produced (depending on the down) was below the benchmark. In 2022, Quez took over that role (slot). Now, all of a sudden he's among the leaders in failed reception rate. I wish I had access to all the NFL plays and could just post links or clips, but there was clearly an issue with the design and/or execution of many of those WR screens we used the last couple years. I'd have to sit and study each play to see if it was flawed on the Eagles' part or if it was just read and defended properly. Either way, Sirianni and the offensive coaches need to see what they can adjust to increase the effectiveness of the slot WR. If a guy is being tackled as he catches a pass 3+ yards behind the LOS, something went wrong. Also, in this offense, the slot WR is rarely the primary target. Why should he be when we have Smith, Brown, and Goedert? That means on plays where Hurts isn't comfortable passing to his preferred targets, he's running out of time and just taking what he can get. The blame clearly doesn't fall on the WR for that. 

So go ahead, keep pretending this stat means the WR can't "catch." It just proves your ignorance. 

 

For the record, Quez had 3 drops last season and now has 6 total in 3 seasons. Smith had 8 drops last year. Both guys had an identical drop percentage last season. I'm not concerned with either. Here is the catch percentage of the Eagles' WRs last season:

Smith --- 69.9%

Watkins --- 64.7%

Brown --- 60.7%

[EagleVA]

On 7/27/2023 at 2:55 PM, brkmsn said:

"Failed reception rate" only has to do with receptions and is based 100% on the yardage gained from each reception depending on the down.

It that's the case those silly arse WR screens will boost the failed reception rate and that's mostly what Watkins was thrown......I hate that call.

[brkmsn]

9 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

It that's the case those silly arse WR screens will boost the failed reception rate and that's mostly what Watkins was thrown......I hate that call.

Failed reception rate is more of an indication of how well a play worked than it is a reflection on the WR itself. If you catch a pass on 1st and 10 that gains less than 5 yards, that's a "failed reception" even if it contributes toward an eventual 1st down.  If you catch a pass for 8 yards on 1st and 20, that's a failed reception. If it's 2nd and 20 and you catch a pass for 11 yards, that's a failed reception. If it's 3rd and 24 and you catch a pass for 23 yards, that's a failed reception. If it's 4th and 22, your team is behind and time is about to expire and the QB throws a Hail Mary that falls incomplete, that is NOT a failed reception. 

If a receiver is a safety valve for a QB on a busted play, there's a good chance if it is a completed pass that it will be a "failed completion."

I agree with you in this case. There's a play they tried to do repeatedly with Reagor in 2021 that was consistently "bad." They tried it a few times last season with Watkins and the results were similar. I'm not sure what they see in the play. It must have worked well in practice once, but it sure hasn't paid dividends in games. 

[EagleVA]

22 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Failed reception rate is more of an indication of how well a play worked than it is a reflection on the WR itself.

"Failed reception rate" is a horrible/misleading name for a stat, I'm thinking they should call it "Piss Poor Calls".

[brkmsn]

6 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

"Failed reception rate" is a horrible/misleading name for a stat, I'm thinking they should call it "Piss Poor Calls".

It's funny, though. You get to see people that are too lazy to see what an analytic stat means try to use it to promote their player hate. Calling out a receiver for how he was used is the epitome of ignorance. It's even funnier when the ignorant fool uses an analytic site stat to criticize a player after denouncing all relevance of such sites beforehand. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

On 8/1/2023 at 2:52 AM, brkmsn said:

Failed reception rate is more of an indication of how well a play worked than it is a reflection on the WR itself. If you catch a pass on 1st and 10 that gains less than 5 yards, that's a "failed reception" even if it contributes toward an eventual 1st down.  If you catch a pass for 8 yards on 1st and 20, that's a failed reception. If it's 2nd and 20 and you catch a pass for 11 yards, that's a failed reception. If it's 3rd and 24 and you catch a pass for 23 yards, that's a failed reception. If it's 4th and 22, your team is behind and time is about to expire and the QB throws a Hail Mary that falls incomplete, that is NOT a failed reception. 

If a receiver is a safety valve for a QB on a busted play, there's a good chance if it is a completed pass that it will be a "failed completion."

I agree with you in this case. There's a play they tried to do repeatedly with Reagor in 2021 that was consistently "bad." They tried it a few times last season with Watkins and the results were similar. I'm not sure what they see in the play. It must have worked well in practice once, but it sure hasn't paid dividends in games. 

C'mon now, you've clearly read the statistics or you couldn't have cherry picked what you have, the fact is Watkin's average depth of target was only a shade over half a yard less than Smith, the biggest difference is that Brown and Smith got 1st down yardage on well over half their receptions while Watkins managed it on a smidge over a third of his, Watkins broke one tackle all season, while Smith (a man who NFL scouts thought would break in the NFL) broke 5 and Brown broke 7, Watkins had the lowest YAC on the team apart from Boston Scott.  That isn't the play calling, that's Quez.

[brkmsn]

6 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

C'mon now, you've clearly read the statistics or you couldn't have cherry picked what you have, the fact is Watkin's average depth of target was only a shade over half a yard less than Smith, the biggest difference is that Brown and Smith got 1st down yardage on well over half their receptions while Watkins managed it on a smidge over a third of his, Watkins broke one tackle all season, while Smith (a man who NFL scouts thought would break in the NFL) broke 5 and Brown broke 7, Watkins had the lowest YAC on the team apart from Boston Scott.  That isn't the play calling, that's Quez.

We're talking about failed reception rate. If you want to apply average depth of target, you have to keep in mind that just because you were targeted does not mean a completion was imminent. If a QB targets you but the pass sails out of bounds, you were still targeted on the play. Surely you saw a few deep passes to Quez that ended up incomplete (and a couple ended as INTs). Those deep passes that weren't complete do in fact contribute to the average depth of target stat, but they still have no influence on failed reception rate.  Sometimes the blame for a bad play will fall on the receiver and Quez did earn some of that blame last season on a few plays. 

But if you are going to harp on Quez for "failed reception rate" then show me the plays where you think it was specifically his fault. This is a case where people that didn't understand what the stat actually meant, took it to mean something completely different to verify the opinion they have on a player. You always seem like an intelligent person. Tell me, who's attempting to cherry pick here?

As I said, show me a clip where Quez caught a pass last season and was the reason a completion didn't gain the set amount of yards per the down and earned a "failed reception." That will be more discussion worthy than a tweet with a stat and no context. 

[EagleVA]

On 8/1/2023 at 8:31 PM, brkmsn said:

It's funny, though. You get to see people that are too lazy to see what an analytic stat means try to use it to promote their player hate. Calling out a receiver for how he was used is the epitome of ignorance. It's even funnier when the ignorant fool uses an analytic site stat to criticize a player after denouncing all relevance of such sites beforehand. 

Yeah, dude is a mess.

[EazyEaglez]

More "useless analytic stats” and I’ll post this one from the guy actually posted videos of a useless wide receiver running around doing nothing in the past. This is QB passer Rating when throwing to this guy. Funny it seems to go down every year. I’m sure it means nothing  though. 😂🤣😂

 

 

[EazyEaglez]

On 8/3/2023 at 8:47 PM, EagleVA said:

Yeah, dude is a mess.

Thanks for the laugh. Coming from you this is the funniest thing I’ve read in a long time. 😂🤣😂

[brkmsn]

4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

More "useless analytic stats” and I’ll post this one from the guy actually posted videos of a useless wide receiver running around doing nothing in the past. This is QB passer Rating when throwing to this guy. Funny it seems to go down every year. I’m sure it means nothing  though. 😂🤣😂

 

 

Every stat has some relevance, but not every stat is a direct reflection of only one player. Any stat based on being "targeted" also reflects on the QB. A lower number could mean that the WR and QB are not clicking for whatever reason. If a QB is pressured and is basically throwing the ball away toward a certain receiver, that receiver is "targeted." So, yeah ... 80 QB rating is pretty average. Last year, DeAndre Hopkins had like an 86 when targeted. In 2021 Greg Ward had a 130.7 (of course he was only targeted 11 times all year) and JJAW had a dismal 25.8 on just 5 targets. 

In 2021, Watkins played really well (playing on the outside) and set the bar for himself. His 88.6 could have been much higher if Hurts hadn't been late on a few deep passes that ended incomplete because the defender was able to recover. Hurts clearly learned from mistakes he made in that year which was his first full season as a starter and was much more decisive last season. Watkins didn't reach that bar again in 2022.He made a few mistakes that hurt the team and clearly affected the shared stat (QB rating when targeted). Watkins had moved into that slot role manned by Reagor the year before. Reagor had a 69.3 on 57 targets. Watkins had an 80 on 51 targets while playing almost half the year with a shoulder injury. An injured, below par Watkins was still an upgrade over a healthy Reagor.

At this point, I'm not sure why you're selling your soul for this whole "Watkins is a bad WR" argument. What happened last year happened last year. This team is moving on. The young players are continuing to grow. JJAW sucked and simply was not a good WR in the NFL. Reagor sucked and never became the player he could have. But Watkins isn't JJAW and isn't Reagor. He's a good WR (something I never said about those other two) that is coming off a disappointing year where he learned a lot. 

For a guy that is so concerned about who people are talking about (making plays) in camp, it's like you're completely covering your ears. First in the early OTAs, Sirianni singled Watkins out and now almost daily in TC, Watkins is getting praise.  Go ahead --- keep calling him bad, a scrub, a bum, etc... I'll be sure to bump your posts like you were doing with Hurts-haters last season. 

[EazyEaglez]

On 8/5/2023 at 8:35 PM, brkmsn said:

Every stat has some relevance, but not every stat is a direct reflection of only one player. Any stat based on being "targeted" also reflects on the QB. A lower number could mean that the WR and QB are not clicking for whatever reason. If a QB is pressured and is basically throwing the ball away toward a certain receiver, that receiver is "targeted." So, yeah ... 80 QB rating is pretty average. Last year, DeAndre Hopkins had like an 86 when targeted. In 2021 Greg Ward had a 130.7 (of course he was only targeted 11 times all year) and JJAW had a dismal 25.8 on just 5 targets. 

In 2021, Watkins played really well (playing on the outside) and set the bar for himself. His 88.6 could have been much higher if Hurts hadn't been late on a few deep passes that ended incomplete because the defender was able to recover. Hurts clearly learned from mistakes he made in that year which was his first full season as a starter and was much more decisive last season. Watkins didn't reach that bar again in 2022.He made a few mistakes that hurt the team and clearly affected the shared stat (QB rating when targeted). Watkins had moved into that slot role manned by Reagor the year before. Reagor had a 69.3 on 57 targets. Watkins had an 80 on 51 targets while playing almost half the year with a shoulder injury. An injured, below par Watkins was still an upgrade over a healthy Reagor.

At this point, I'm not sure why you're selling your soul for this whole "Watkins is a bad WR" argument. What happened last year happened last year. This team is moving on. The young players are continuing to grow. JJAW sucked and simply was not a good WR in the NFL. Reagor sucked and never became the player he could have. But Watkins isn't JJAW and isn't Reagor. He's a good WR (something I never said about those other two) that is coming off a disappointing year where he learned a lot. 

For a guy that is so concerned about who people are talking about (making plays) in camp, it's like you're completely covering your ears. First in the early OTAs, Sirianni singled Watkins out and now almost daily in TC, Watkins is getting praise.  Go ahead --- keep calling him bad, a scrub, a bum, etc... I'll be sure to bump your posts like you were doing with Hurts-haters last season. 

"For a guy that is so concerned about who people are talking about (making plays) in camp, it's like you're completely covering your ears.”

Wrong. I have acknowledged that Watkins is having a good camp multiple times. I wrote  before he wasn’t good last year and I have my doubts he will be good in the future and that set you off. I mean you gotta defend mediocre play whenever you can. 😂

[NOTW]

 

 

[JournalistMic]

If next year we consider Quez a bust it will be because of the play last season when he simply allowed the defender to take the ball out of his hands. Its that lack of strength which at times appears to show no heart to the fans that Quez will have to change the opinions of fans by really shinning in PreSeason.

[brkmsn]

17 minutes ago, JournalistMic said:

If next year we consider Quez a bust it will be because of the play last season when he simply allowed the defender to take the ball out of his hands. Its that lack of strength which at times appears to show no heart to the fans that Quez will have to change the opinions of fans by really shinning in PreSeason.

Quez had a lot of "soft" plays after the grade 2 shoulder sprain. In hindsight, we probably should have sat him for a few weeks, but who did we have to replace him? It's pretty hard, though, to ever consider a 6th rounder a "bust." I don't expect Quez to play a whole lot in preseason. He's considered a starter. 

Last year, Hurts had the grade 1.5  shoulder sprain, sat out 2 games, played the regular season finale and played in a very soft, careful manner. He didn't play like himself and everybody understood. Quez had a more severe injury, didn't miss a game, made some mistakes by playing cautious, soft football and some fans have no understanding. I'm pretty sure Sirianni just had him out there mostly to be a decoy and draw some coverage away from the other targets. We simply didn't have another guy on the roster with the deep speed threat that could replace that dynamic while he recovered. 

"After the Tennessee game, I suffered a Grade 2 sprain,” Watkins said. "I’ve been playing on it for the last six to eight weeks, and honestly, it kind of like deteriorated my confidence. I wasn’t able to play at my best ability.”

 

"For me, I didn’t play my brand of football all year,” Watkins said. "Mental, honestly, that’s all it is. You just gotta play through all circumstances on and off the field. I should have just played ball instead of worrying about it.”

[MF POON]

I'm willing to give Quez a pass on last season if he steps up and does well this season. He was hurt, so it makes sense why he played soft going across the middle, and couldn't make the plays when given the chance. *fingers crossed* lol