3 hours ago, mattwill said:

That wasn’t Moore’s scheme. All you have to do is look at mMoore’s years in Dallas and you can clearly see that Moore is a "pass first, run later” Offendive mind. He isn’t as extreme as Andy Reid, but close. We will see that unfold now that he is down in New Orleans. The Offensive scheme of the four games before the Bye Week was Moore’s scheme.

You gotta follow along with the offseason. Siri was retained but publicly labeled CEO coach and not in charge of the O any more. Then Moore was hired under those circumstances. But Siri walked back that idea almost immediately after Moore was hired.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

No

Agreed

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

You gotta follow along with the offseason. Siri was retained but publicly labeled CEO coach and not in charge of the O any more. Then Moore was hired under those circumstances. But Siri walked back that idea almost immediately after Moore was hired.

Siri stated we gotta keep all the things that worked. So the understanding is that Patullo and mostly Moore had to create the new O splicing everything together.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Siri stated we gotta keep all the things that worked. So the understanding is that Patullo and mostly Moore had to create the new O splicing everything together.

Tall task and tons of work

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

You gotta follow along with the offseason. Siri was retained but publicly labeled CEO coach and not in charge of the O any more. Then Moore was hired under those circumstances. But Siri walked back that idea almost immediately after Moore was hired.

There is no evidence of that. Moore called all the plays throughout the year. Plus the pass happy Offensive scheme of the first four games was virtually identical to Moore’s Offensive scheme in Dallas. It was very different from the Sirianni-Steichen Offensive scheme of 2021 and 2022.

But it not being Moore’s O like he was supposedly hired to run….is exactly what was occurring last season. He did the work all offseason …but it never got tested. Didn’t play in the PS. Only one joint practice even. So first real test came week one in Brazil. So of course everything wasn’t perfect before the first game it ever rolled out.

7 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Siri learned from that last SB failure where he just took the RB off the field pretty much. Think we all kept believing Barkley would bust one eventually.

Always that chance. At worst it burns up the clock. When you have a nice lead in a game that big, you do whatever to keep the oppositions offense off the field, so YPC really doesn't matter much. The plan worked. The D of course shined, just adding to their woes. You act like Barkley didn't have a HUGE hand in getting us there. So the sucker punch worked fine, objective achieved. Mahomes was off the field

I believe that was part of the stepping back during the bye. Moore needed to rework some things to fix the new O.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Tall task and tons of work

Where did Siriani say that? There is no documentation of any such interchange. Plus the Sirianni-Steichen Offense of 2021 and 2022 was nowhere in evidence in the first four games.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I believe that was part of the stepping back during the bye. Moore needed to rework some things to fix the new O.

Were Lane Johnson and Jeff Stoutland part of those stepping back meetings?

4 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But it not being Moore’s O like he was supposedly hired to run….is exactly what was occurring last season. He did the work all offseason …but it never got tested. Didn’t play in the PS. Only one joint practice even. So first real test came week one in Brazil. So of course everything wasn’t perfect before the first game it ever rolled out.

All true, but what is the relevance of that? It was no surprise. That is what virtually all NFL teams do.

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

You have a fairy tale sense of how the 2024 Offensive scheme was put together. It is well documented that Sirianni looked at the collapse of the 2023 season as a failing on his own part. For the two years he was HC and Steichen was OC, Steichen called the plays, but it was Sirianni’s scheme. He was the COO, the Chief Operating Officer. That worked well those first two years, but when Brian Johnson took over for Steichen, the easy collaboration that had existed the prior two seasons simply wasn’t there. Johnson had no sense of ownership of the scheme, and his play calling was robotic. Nick resolved prior to the 2024 OC search to step back into a CEO position, a Chief Executive Officer, concentrating on the relationships with the team that had broken down so badly in the second half of 2023 on both sides of the LOS The OC he and Lurie set out to hire was going to be the COO of the Offense … and the DC they set out to hire was going to be the COO of the Defense.

Rumors leaked everywhere they believed Johnson had very little control of much in 2023. Siri was back running the O. He took what Steichen had given and ran with things as far as he could. He had no ability to add anything new. Couldn’t self scout or adapt.

10 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

You gotta follow along with the offseason. Siri was retained but publicly labeled CEO coach and not in charge of the O any more. Then Moore was hired under those circumstances. But Siri walked back that idea almost immediately after Moore was hired.

Sirianni wasn’t retained. He was already under contract. You don’t pay a retainer to someone already on the payroll. Retainers are paid to outside firms like law firms for contract services. What services was Sirianni supposed to provide for this hypothetical retainer?

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I believe that was part of the stepping back during the bye. Moore needed to rework some things to fix the new O.

Hurts in Moores offense was pretty bad. We were 2-2 and Hurts led the league in picks. Moore understood Hurts was in over his head and pulled it back (or Siri did, no matter). As I keep saying we went back to the KISS offense, basically the same stuff they run in college(which Hurts can grasp). 35-40 passes per game to 20-22, but I understand your god was responsible for it all. If I'm Siri I'm telling Patulllo to stick with the KISS offense and maybe try a few plays he may have. Bark and the tush push should remain the key pieces of this offense

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

Agreed. But since he came from a pass first background and experience, he had to listen to his Run Game Coordinator, Stoutland. To Moore’s credit, he was a good listener. However, I suspect that in New Orleans he will shift back to the part of the game that is near and dear to his heart, the passing attack.

Answers lie pretty clearly in Moore taking that completely terrible job instead of remaining with a stacked SB team again. Who takes that Saints clusterF of a job? He ran

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

That is crystal clear. What seems to be missing in that obsession is balance and humility.

You know I can accept that. But you don’t know how long I’ve been so ganged up against. So yeah…less of that for me now around here.

6 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Hurts in Moores offense was pretty bad. We were 2-2 and Hurts led the league in picks. Moore understood Hurts was in over his head and pulled it back (or Siri did, no matter). As I keep saying we went back to the KISS offense, basically the same stuff they run in college(which Hurts can grasp). 35-40 passes per game to 20-22, but I understand your god was responsible for it all. If I'm Siri I'm telling Patulllo to stick with the KISS offense and maybe try a few plays he may have. Bark and the tush push should remain the key pieces of this offense

BTW this is not being "a hater" it's understanding your QB's strengths and weaknesses ,making the adjustments. Hurts was superb after the week 5 bye and was a fantastic game manager. No(or very few) errors and you heard no complaints from me did you?

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

Why does that matter? Why is it relevant. All we are is fans. What we think and say is irrelevant. We don’t go out on the field. We don’t put our bodies on the line. We don’t put our reputation on the line. And we don’t put Laurie’s money on the line. It bears repeating … we are irrelevant.

It matters because of the Hurts bashing that No Mas and Fl use the O stepping back to let the best O player carry the rock. Any team with any QB would be wise to hand off to Saquan having the best season ever. That’s no indictment of Hurts.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Rumors leaked everywhere they believed Johnson had very little control of much in 2023. Siri was back running the O. He took what Steichen had given and ran with things as far as he could. He had no ability to add anything new. Couldn’t self scout or adapt.

You have your facts wrong. Sirianni’s relationship with Johnson was virtually identical to the one Sirianni and Steichen had. The problem was that Johnson only had a fraction of the experience Steichen had in working with Sirianni, and the lines of communication broke down. Sirianni and Howie and Lurie all agreed that the playcaller had to be the owner of the Offensive scheme, so Sirianni stepped away from all aspects of the Offense and concentrated on relationship building and relationship maintenance … both of which suffered greatly in the slump at the end of 2023. Moore came in with full authority, and the Dallas track record that made everyone believe he could deliver a passing first offense like the one Lurie has always wanted.

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

Why does that matter? Why is it relevant. All we are is fans. What we think and say is irrelevant. We don’t go out on the field. We don’t put our bodies on the line. We don’t put our reputation on the line. And we don’t put Laurie’s money on the line. It bears repeating … we are irrelevant.

So why it’s relevant is somehow those two still believe keeping everything simple and out of Hurts hands was how we succeeded winning it all last season. But actually what happened is Kelce retired and Hurts for the first time ever actually was running the O his way.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

It matters because of the Hurts bashing that No Mas and Fl use the O stepping back to let the best O player carry the rock. Any team with any QB would be wise to hand off to Saquan having the best season ever. That’s no indictment of Hurts.

No Mas and Fl are just as irrelevant as you and I are. They don’t go out on the field. Their reputation isn’t on the line. They aren’t responsible for spending Lurie s money wisely. If you know they are irrelevant why does what they tink matter so much to you?

Handing off to Saquan for the greatest rushing season ever was no doubt huge. But that O and style was never going to be enough at the end. That was my argument and worry last season all along. Come the end it exactly wasn’t an O that could have carried us all the way. Come the huge games I priority the most…win or go home playoff games…we had to do so much more than just handoff to Saquan. That O worked fine to not lose to the Browns…and others. But it exactly wasn’t good enough at the end.

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

We installed Moore’s O in weeks 1-4 and it failed badly. We installed Stoutland’s O in weeks 6-18 and the Playoffs, and it succeeded handsomely.

Stout doesn’t have an O. Just not at all what happened. Stout runs his style blocking schemes. That part is true.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So why it’s relevant is somehow those two still believe keeping everything simple and out of Hurts hands was how we succeeded winning it all last season. But actually what happened is Kelce retired and Hurts for the first time ever actually was running the O his way.

That is their opinion. Opinions are like ass holes. Everyone has one. Can’t you simply agree to disagree agree with them and move on? You clearly enjoy Hurts’ level of play. Sit back and enjoy it instead of letting them get under your skin.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Stout doesn’t have an O. Just not at all what happened. Stout runs his style blocking schemes. That part is true.

What is Stoutland’s title and responsibility?