45 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Now... i will say... it is possible that the 2021 change might not have needed a Mahomes signature...simply because it was an bonus to bonus... " option to signing " change. By definition he was getting the money right away up front either way... so I could agree with the possibility no player signature needed.

But the other two changes he absolutely had to sign. Revised contract and the changing of salary to bonus. He absolutely will be doing a couple more of those ...probably at least one of each if not more.

Stepping through them one by one. 2023 was the same as 2021 Bonus conversion to Bonus. 100% accounting. The cash flow to Mahomes was unchanged

5 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Stepping through them one by one. 2023 was the same as 2021 Bonus conversion to Bonus. 100% accounting. The cash flow to Mahomes was unchanged

This one needed a signature because the guarantee was changed, but no new money, so again 99% Cap accounting.

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

This one needed a signature because the guarantee was changed, but no new money, so again 99% Cap accounting.

Next one is 100% Cap accounting. No signature needed. No change in $. No change in the timing of the cash.

5 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Next one is 100% Cap accounting. No signature needed. No change in $. No change in the timing of the cash.

Next one is 100% Cap accounting. No signature needed. No change in $. No change in the timing of the cash.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

So let's say Mahomes already had to sign 2 more contracts after the " 10 year" deal was signed. And we know more is coming.

Hurts won't need to sign anything for a while.

Hurts is only signed through 2028 and the balloon payment / dead cap hit needs to be dealt with sooner than that, so starting from the April 2023 signing date, Hurts contract will need to be addressed in either 4 years (April 2027) or 5 years (April 2028). Mahomes contract was signed in July 2020, so we are already past the 4 year mark, and coming up on the 5 year mark, and Mahomes contract is still good for 3 more years before the guaranteed money runs out. So Hurts contract was good for 4 years, possibly 5, while Mahomes’ was good for 8 years, possibly 10 with an adjustment like the September 2023 one.

5 hours ago, mattwill said:

Hurts is only signed through 2028 and the balloon payment / dead cap hit needs to be dealt with sooner than that, so starting from the April 2023 signing date, Hurts contract will need to be addressed in either 4 years (April 2027) or 5 years (April 2028). Mahomes contract was signed in July 2020, so we are already past the 4 year mark, and coming up on the 5 year mark, and Mahomes contract is still good for 3 more years before the guaranteed money runs out. So Hurts contract was good for 4 years, possibly 5, while Mahomes’ was good for 8 years, possibly 10 with an adjustment like the September 2023 one.

Hurts has an option bonus... no need to address. Much better contract....by far.

How you can tell.... very simple... look what KC does paying other players compared to the Eagles.

Again...take the win with your State Farm idea.

Mshomes had to change his deal ... AL the time, KC still not able to afford anywhere close to what the Eagles have been able to do.

Guarantee money... $10 mil of the 2026 salary. Look at your chart that you put up.

4 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Guaranteed money... $10 mil of the 2026 salary. Look at your chart that you put up.

Okay, here is the chart

So starting the 2023 season with $208 million guaranteed.

In 2023 he got $59 million bringing the remaining guaranteed amount down to $149 million

In 2024 he got $46 million bringing the remaining guaranteed amount down to $103 million

In 2025 he will get $50 million bringing the remaining guaranteed amount down to $53 million, not $10 million.

In 2026 he will get $57 million, which exhausts the guarantee. So he and the Chiefs will almost surely repeat the September 2023 transaction, bumping the guaranteed amount back up to the same $200 million vicinity. Whether or not there is any new money added is unknown. The September 2023 bump up did not have any new money added.

The Spotrac chart says $53 million in 2027, $27 million in 2028, $35 million in 2029, $46 million in 2030, and $48 million in 2031. That is a total of $209 million of cash payments in the queue. Mahomes will need to decide if $200 million over 5 years is enough when coupled with his off field revenue. If he does decide that is enough he is telling the Chiefs, "Here is a Cap dollars bonus for you to use in surrounding me with teammates who can win more Super Bowls.

12 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Okay, here is the chart

So starting the 2023 season with $208 million guaranteed.

In 2023 he got $59 million bringing the remaining guaranteed amount down to $149 million

In 2024 he got $46 million bringing the remaining guaranteed amount down to $103 million

In 2025 he will get $50 million bringing the remaining guaranteed amount down to $53 million, not $10 million.

In 2026 he will get $57 million, which exhausts the guarantee. So he and the Chiefs will almost surely repeat the September 2023 transaction, bumping the guaranteed amount back up to the same $200 million vicinity. Whether or not there is any new money added is unknown. The September 2023 bump up did not have any new money added.

The Spotrac chart says $53 million in 2027, $27 million in 2028, $35 million in 2029, $46 million in 2030, and $48 million in 2031. That is a total of $209 million of cash payments in the queue. Mahomes will need to decide if $200 million over 5 years is enough when coupled with his off field revenue. If he does decide that is enough he is telling the Chiefs, "Here is a Cap dollars bonus for you to use in surrounding me with teammates who can win more Super Bowls.

Where does it say guaranteed? Go look at OTC..click on his name and go read the long paragraph..and you can see the guaranteed money

14 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Okay, here is the chart

So starting the 2023 season with $208 million guaranteed.

In 2023 he got $59 million bringing the remaining guaranteed amount down to $149 million

In 2024 he got $46 million bringing the remaining guaranteed amount down to $103 million

In 2025 he will get $50 million bringing the remaining guaranteed amount down to $53 million, not $10 million.

In 2026 he will get $57 million, which exhausts the guarantee. So he and the Chiefs will almost surely repeat the September 2023 transaction, bumping the guaranteed amount back up to the same $200 million vicinity. Whether or not there is any new money added is unknown. The September 2023 bump up did not have any new money added.

The Spotrac chart says $53 million in 2027, $27 million in 2028, $35 million in 2029, $46 million in 2030, and $48 million in 2031. That is a total of $209 million of cash payments in the queue. Mahomes will need to decide if $200 million over 5 years is enough when coupled with his off field revenue. If he does decide that is enough he is telling the Chiefs, "Here is a Cap dollars bonus for you to use in surrounding me with teammates who can win more Super Bowls.

OTC has the column for guaranteed money each year. So you can see how much of the total is guaranteed each season.

Apparently we are finalizing a trade with SF giving them Huff for a mid round draft pick

6 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Apparently we are finalizing a trade with SF giving them Huff for a mid round draft pick

They were talking about him.this morning. You have the radio " hosts" and the Eagles insider. The hosts all upset that Huff wasn't there ( lol) with the insider trying to explain that they either have a deal set up or he could be cut.... POST JUNE. So he was trying to get them to relax and see it didn't make sense for him to come to OTAs.

You gotta love the emotional hosts that take everything personal.

Just curious...is the SF Defensive coordinator the old Jets coach?

Wow... interesting to think

If Howie is mediocre and the SF organization is the model... then Huff must be worth it.

If Huff just isn't a good player, then SF organization will get taken by Howie. Not a good look for SF.

On the other hand... the great Nick Fangio...if Huff plays well in SF... how does that look for Fangio?

This is interesting on how to fit into the agenda?

Either SF organization ( Huff fails)...or Fangio ( Huff plays well)... will come out not looking so good.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Where does it say guaranteed? Go look at OTC..click on his name and go read the long paragraph..and you can see the guaranteed money

It says “$208.1M guaranteed” right in the screenshot clip from Spotrac.

6 minutes ago, mattwill said:

It says “$208.1M guaranteed” right in the screenshot clip from Spotrac.

Do you like OTC or Spotrac?

Are you sure that the guaranteed money didn't go from $63 mil to $208...as in total from the start of the contract?

Because if you do the math...$10 mil in 2026 makes it at the $208 mil mark.

Now idk...which site is correct... which is the write interpretation?

What I do know... Hurts contract is way better.

19 hours ago, mattwill said:

Maybe early for you. Early for me would be Bill Haley and the Comets. Traffic was prime listening for me. I’m a Woodstock attendee.

I am also….’94

Shefty reporting Huff reworking his deal to facilitate trade to Niners

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Just curious...is the SF Defensive coordinator the old Jets coach?

Yes it is Saleh again former SF DC, Jets HC now back as the DC again lol 😂

21 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Well stated. 2021 was really a foundational year. Howie has had great drafts since, and was learning more about players and/or listening to scouts recommendations. He was always good with linemen and I think his Reagor pick(when the whole Vikes war room was cheering) rather than take who everyone WANTED us to take (JJ) really motivated him to go learn about WR's. Speed at a combine is not the only skill set of a #1 WR. After that media and fan nightmarish embarrassment over that pick, he's been great about locating player with skillsets that fit. Lord, how many "steals in the draft" can one man have? He just keeps doing it, really an amazing turnaround as was his(and Lurie because they gotta be tight) decision to never give the HC total control over things like they did Chip. His 9 play college playbook was a total disaster and he took the power away from Howie. Much learned there also. I think we are witnessing the culmination of our mistakes being erased over the last 5 years. Siri is tremendous at reminding the prima donna players that if you want the big prize you can't have the ME ME ME attitude. Some days it's your day, other days are for others. Siri demanded that culture shift and the foundation was built and just a superb job building and now trying to maintain what we built. If you locate the draft/off season talent, you can plug and play for many years. We replaced the entire front line and look at Becton last year. a career re-incarnated. Of course we will have a new RG this year but can anyone complain about Howie's O line replacements? Howie finds the talent, Stoutland makes them the best O line continuously, consistently, annually. IDK Lurie/Howie are at or near the top of the best owner/GM duo to ever do it. I think we make another run at this and could see us competing at the top level for quite a long time. But enough dreaming. Sort them out and play to whip Dullazz week 1. The march to the Lombardi starts there. We can do it, nothing or no one stopping us but ourselves. This year will be a tough road of iron sharpens iron and I am looking forward to it. If we go 4-0 the first 4 games, it will put a stamp on that we aren't going anywhere. The SB goes through Philly

Stout finds and identifies the Oline for Rosie to get. You have things mixed up here. Rosie didn’t find Mailata and Stout molded him. Stout did all of that..Rosie just listened to him and executed getting it done. Same goes with Fangio’s D. Two easy main examples where it was only Rosie were signing Bradberry and Huff. Otherwise when Rosie just listens to the football guys he does rally well. JJAW remember was Lurie’s guy.

% of team cap hits by year Hurts vs Mahomes

2023... 2.6% vs. 16.9%

2024 ...5.2% vs. 14.7%

2025 ... 7.5% vs. 9.8%

Going forward...let's assume KC converts the salary to bonus to lower the cap hits

..for 2026 and 2027. Basically turning $45 mil of salary and spreading the cap hit over 5 years, leaves $9 mil per year instead of 45 mil in one and done year.

Hurts will have $31.9 mil hit in 2026. And $42.1 mil in 2027

Mahomes will have $42.3 mil in 2026..

And $56.6 mil in 2027

Which leads to 2028... Hurts $47.5 mil...

Mahomes will have $18 mil added to his $42.1 mil cap hit bringing him over 60 mil. But I guess he could restructure again ( if it's allowed, I'm not sure how many years in a row it's allowed) would save $14.6 mil....still a $45 - 46 mil cap hit...

Now you bring up 2029 for Hurts... $97 mil hit... Mahomes showing $44.5 mil cap hit with only an $8 mil salary. But in this scenario... we just added another $22 mil in combo annual prorations... by converting 2026, 2027 and 2028 salaries into bonuses. For each of 2029 and 2030... plus another $13 mil for 2031 and 2032 respectively.

So basically... after Hurts smokes Mahomes in cap hits until 2029...

The argument against Hurts contract would need that $97 mil hit in 2029. Well... all this possible restructuring for Mahomes to maximize the cap savings and still have way way...way more cap hits than Hurts... you would then have to add another $71-72 mil to Mahomes cap, down the road after 2029,to what is showing now.

Idk... would you really trade contracts to save $25 mil... in 2029 and beyond?

Do we even know Hurts will be the QB then? And who else would you trust creating a new contract to keep the cap hits down if there was another contract in 2029?

For me it's not close... I think the Hurts contract is the best contract in the league... forget all the ANALytics... simply the fact the Eagles locked in a starting QB in the real money level... and still have so many other quality players locked up is the real proof.

24 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I am also….’94

94 was a joke. 69 was tasty.

37 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Do you like OTC or Spotrac?

What I do know... Hurts contract is way better.

Hurts has no contract after the 2028 season and $97 million of Dead Cap at the end of 2028. Mahomes has a contract three full seasons past 2028 at very reasonable annual Cap hits, with no Dead Cap in any of the last three years.

Further, in 2028 Hurts’ Cap hit is $47M ($144M if you include the Dead Cap) while Mahomes’ Cap hit is $42 M. So explain to me how Hurts’ contract for 2028 through 2031 is better?

In 2027 I will grant you that Hurts’ Cap hit of $42M is better than Mahomes’ $74M.

Similarly, in 2026 Hurts’ Cap hit of $32M is better than Mahomes’ $78M, and in 2025 Hurts’ $22M is better than Mahomes’ $28M. However, if you add up the deltas ($6M in 2025 plus $46M in 2026 plus $32M in 2027) you get only $84M, which is considerably less than the $97M Dead Cap in Hurts’ contract.

Those are the straightforward numbers.

BTW, I went to the OTC site and couldn’t find the guarantee balance column you mentioned. Are you on a phone or a laptop/desktop?

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Now you bring up 2029 for Hurts... $97 mil hit... Mahomes showing $44.5 mil cap hit with only an $8 mil salary. But in this scenario... we just added another $22 mil in combo annual prorations... by converting 2026, 2027 and 2028 salaries into bonuses. For each of 2029 and 2030... plus another $13 mil for 2031 and 2032 respectively.

Spotrac’s numbers and OTC’s numbers, which agree with each other already have those adjustments accounted for.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

% of team cap hits by year Hurts vs Mahomes

2023... 2.6% vs. 16.9%

2024 ...5.2% vs. 14.7%

2025 ... 7.5% vs. 9.8%

That is an apples to oranges comparison. To be apples to apples you have to compare Mahomes 2020 to Hurts 2023. Both contracts were in year one those respective years.