5 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

ok... that was both Fed up and hilarious at the same time

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

You can also get a late hit, a pass interference call or just a straight up completion where Parker Washington Mosses the DB again.

The Jags needed a 45-50 yard return with a running start to take up exactly 7 seconds and were fortunate the defender tackled him straight down and didn’t have any kind of struggle. How many 50 yard returns have we given up under Clay?

The thing to remember is no timeouts, though. So, really, only a penalty gets you there, unless you complete whiff on a tackle like the miracle in Minnesota or whatever they call it. El

So even another one handed catch and the clock still runs out.

In the end you're right, it was a freaking miracle for them. I do think kicking it into the end zone probably takes it from a 98% win to a 99% win. But either way we should have won the damn game.

I think the clock management on the last drive was far more egregious

When did NFL network start doing a MNF broadcast as well? The audio was terrible, but they show interesting graphics like defensive formations and commentary is more of a nerd style breakdown.

45 minutes ago, Lambo said:

You are living in a dream world Neo, of a play that happened because of a hold. I have the facts of the actual kick returns, the yardage gained, and how it was less than the league average, and less than what the Eagles allowed in the first 4 games. You just need to take the L and move on.

Let's say the return was 100% the result of a hold.

Given all the other factors, the absolute dog ish performance of the referee crew (for both teams) and that first return would have scared the bejesus out of me and seered into my brain that I should not trust the kick return team that day.

Why don't you do this, since you're all about data. List all of the players that were on Kick Coverage, then list the players who were playing defense on that last drive.

And then tell me which list of players you'd trust to close out a game

49 minutes ago, Lambo said:

He could have audibled? Called a hot route? That's right, he doesn't so why wouldn't every DC in the league blitz in that situation.

The Nick Sirianni hate from some of you has gone overboard.

Little known fact…I don’t like Siri any more than I like Hurts. The fact that my posting history strongly suggests otherwise is merely a reflection of which faction here I have a lower opinion of.

No one is calling Hurts a horrible qb, a clown, or an idiot. It’s just as hard to figure out what Hurts does well as it is Siri right now.

Both of these guys have been to 2 SBs here, won 1, and righted a lot of leaking ships. And yea…it hasn’t passed the eye test for either one in the process. But if Hurts gets to get called a winner despite looking bad, so does the head freaking coach. I support dumping both moving forward, but show a little respect for the past.

1 minute ago, Mike31mt said:

Let's say the return was 100% the result of a hold.

Given all the other factors, the absolute dog ish performance of the referee crew (for both teams) and that first return would have scared the bejesus out of me and seered into my brain that I should not trust the kick return team that day.

Why don't you do this, since you're all about data. List all of the players that were on Kick Coverage, then list the players who were playing defense on that last drive.

And then tell me which list of players you'd trust to close out a game

KR coverage has looked horrible the past few weeks for this team IMHO. I’m not even sure why people are arguing kicking it inbounds was the best idea. Clever placement by Jake has been the real difference maker. There’s been lanes constantly from what I’ve seen. This was a disaster waiting to happen.

The irony in all of this is that both Hurts and Siri are going to suck and fail without each other.

Hurts will play for a new HC next year who will proceed to unceremoniously bench him within 25 games (at best). Then he’ll sign with another team as either a 30 or 31 year old and will begin his tour around the NFL as a journeyman.

Siri, at best, will get HC job that is in less demand. More realistically, he may have to take an offensive consultant position for a while. And we’ll never really hear from him again.

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The Nick Sirianni hate from some of you has gone overboard.

Little known fact…I don’t like Siri any more than I like Hurts. The fact that my posting history strongly suggests otherwise is merely a reflection of which faction here I have a lower opinion of.

No one is calling Hurts a horrible qb, a clown, or an idiot. It’s just as hard to figure out what Hurts does well as it is Siri right now.

Both of these guys have been to 2 SBs here, won 1, and righted a lot of leaking ships. And yea…it hasn’t passed the eye test for either one in the process. But if Hurts gets to get called a winner despite looking bad, so does the head freaking coach. I support dumping both moving forward, but show a little respect for the past.

It seems like there were times in the Siri era where the game time decisions werent as bad as theyve been the past 2 years.

Maybe he had it structured differently where different coaches, who are now gone, had some of the decision making power on some of these decisions that havent gone so well lately.

Theres no question the game day coaching is terrible.

I also think its not as likely to cost us games when the talent is performing as it should. Currently, its injuries, and the QB that are creating margins so slim that the team cant survive a misstep on the split second game say decisions.

Like, had Hurts hit Wicks for that TD, or any number of the countless other throws he misfired on this week, it never comes down to the kickoff choice. Each week, there are numerous bad plays by Hurts and when the game is so close because of all of his mistakes, it magnifies one call by the coach at the end of the game.

Additionally, I think there is significant value in the team/culture building ability that Siri has that owners and GMs commit to. You can get a great play caller who cant command respect in the locker room, or who cant control egos on the team from clashing with each other, or finger pointing. Fans will say its easy to replace Siri for someone better. But its not.

I fully agree with the kickoff call being bad (though none of us can say for sure that wasnt Clay's call). I also take more issue with the way the final drive was managed even prior to that decision. That may be all on Nick. Or, it may be a time in the game when the QB could/should have been running things. There are many things we assume were Nick that easily could have been someone else. And he will go in front of the media and take blame for all of it. So we wont ever know for sure.

I would be very, very curious to see Nick on the sideline during the period where 20-30 seconds ticked off the clock when the eagles picked up a big first down in to FG range, and the team did not hustle to the line to continue the drive with momentum. None of us know if Nick said to waste time and settle for a long FG. It also could have been Hurts being a low football IQ idiot as we have seen many times before.

Whos decision was that?

Then, who called the pass on the next play that went incomplete and saved JAX more time? Was it the HC? OC? QB? Was a different play called and Hurts audibled to a pass because he did want to continue going for the score?

None of us have any way of knowing how that all unfolded.

All of it will be placed completely on Nick and no one else seems interested in asking any questions. Just want him fired...

I may be ok with moving on from Siri, but I dont want to move on from him and Hurts at the same time. I REALLY would love to see Siri head coach with a different, legitimate QB and see how that looks.

7 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I would be very, very curious to see Nick on the sideline during the period where 20-30 seconds ticked off the clock when the eagles picked up a big first down in to FG range, and the team did not hustle to the line to continue the drive with momentum. None of us know if Nick said to waste time and settle for a long FG. It also could have been Hurts being a low football IQ idiot as we have seen many times before.

Whos decision was that?

Then, who called the pass on the next play that went incomplete and saved JAX more time? Was it the HC? OC? QB? Was a different play called and Hurts audibled to a pass because he did want to continue going for the score?

None of us have any way of knowing how that all unfolded.

All of it will be placed completely on Nick and no one else seems interested in asking any questions. Just want him fired...

Ultimately, it’s on Nick. He’s the HC. The staff has a direct line to Hurts on the headset to communicate this stuff.

It's the injuries most of all. But other than that, Nick is the one creating the thin margins.

That is how he prefers to play, anyway, it's always been that way. He obsesses about the turnover margin to the point of debilitating the offense.

Hurts had a decent game and I will absolutely die on that hill. He wasn't missing throws all day, that is revisionist history.

He missed the deep ball to Wicks, then sailed the throw with the zero blitz. There was one other pass he threw behind Goedert where he had all day. Just missed it.

Beyond that, I'm not remembering a ton of missed throws. He was under pressure more than half his drop backs. We ran for like 1 yard per carry. He was throwing into tight windows. He was getting the ball out quickly.

Shipley dropped an easy one, one of the other RBs dropped an easy one (can't even keep track of them anymore), and Goedert dropped one.

QBs miss throws. Stafford just missed one. It happens.

People will love this, but yet again Hurts did enough to win the game.

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I may be ok with moving on from Siri, but I dont want to move on from him and Hurts at the same time. I REALLY would love to see Siri head coach with a different, legitimate QB and see how that looks.

Forgetting about how you feel about Hurts what in the hell does Nick bring? He just lost them two games in a row.....what more do you need to see? He sucks with decisions. He sucks offensively. His coaching tree sucks. What are you looking forward to seeing? He's not hiding any skill.

Just now, ManuManu said:

Ultimately, it’s on Nick. He’s the HC. The staff has a direct line to Hurts on the headset to communicate this stuff.

I know not everyone may agree. I discussed earlier and only @vikas83 responded. He leans towards supporting the decision of just playing for the long FG.

In the alternate scenario, which was my preference, the team is hurrying to the ball and trying to continue the momentum/drive and go for the TD. That puts the game away and we never end up talking about do or dont kick it off. There were 58 seconds left, and the clock was running. Its a hurry up scenario where a functional QB is not waiting to listen to a headset. He is running the offense all on his own. Does Hurts do that in those situations? I dont know. But that should be the expectation. That the QB is running things there. If he wasnt, thats not on the HC. And if he was, thats still not on the HC. In that scneario, just saying everything boils down to the HC is a biased copout.

So again, Id love to know whos decision it was. It would be pretty telling if we could see Siri reacting or not on the sideline when they let all that time tick away. And when the pass play is called who called it or was it audibled to? Would love to know who is responsible for all of those decisions on that drive. It was very disjointed.

5 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Forgetting about how you feel about Hurts what in the hell does Nick bring? He just lost them two games in a row.....what more do you need to see? He sucks with decisions. He sucks offensively. His coaching tree sucks. What are you looking forward to seeing? He's not hiding any skill.

I addressed some of it in the post you responded to. Ive also typed more in detail about it in previous seasons when people wanted Nick fired because Hurts sucks. My answer is still the same. Id LOVE to see him work without being handcuffed to Hurts. Im not saying he would be perfect. But I think he is a heck of a lot better than people assume. A lot of what he is blamed for may or may not even really be his doing.

4 hours ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Siriani is an idiot, but there’s nobody else to replace them

There are plenty of people to replace him. You could have picked any limey in that stadium and they would have managed the clock better.

Seeing Allen run around for first downs. Wish our qb would run.

5 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I addressed some of it in the post you responded to. Ive also typed more in detail about it in previous seasons when people wanted Nick fired because Hurts sucks. My answer is still the same. Id LOVE to see him work without being handcuffed to Hurts. Im not saying he would be perfect. But I think he is a heck of a lot better than people assume. A lot of what he is blamed for may or may not even really be his doing.

What’s been communicated is that he has been completely cut out of the offense. They’ve essentially neutered him. If he had any capacity to be anything other than a cheerleader they wouldn’t have done that. He will disappear when he is eventually fired from this team. He and hurts were along for the ride on great teams.

Just now, Eriv20 said:

What’s been communicated is that he has been completely cut out of the offense. They’ve essentially neutered him. If he had any capacity to be anything other than a cheerleader they wouldn’t have done that. He will disappear when he is eventually fired from this team. He and hurts were along for the ride on great teams.

I can agree with your last statement, but more nuanced than that I would say they were each along for a ride, to varying degrees. Whereas Hurts was completely along for the ride, Siri still instilled the values, build the culture, and in some of these seasons keeping it all together was a herculean effort.

Once again, his game day coaching is not good, but that also has been less atrocious in other years as well. Which means he can delegate that out as well. But its not so easy to do what he does at such an elite level during the week, and in the off seasons.

Many fans let split second game time decisions override the importance of months and months of preparation and cultivation when I dont think any of us can really weight that accurately. We arbitrarily decide based on emotion that the came day calls are fireable offenses while we dont care to consider the rest of the body of work, dismissing it as "nothing" when it is argued that he does nothing well, or has no responsibilities.

I dont think thats correct. And I also believe he gets another HC job very, very quickly.

Teams value the elite culture building that he brings, and if they believe they have a QB in place (and yes probably a really good OC as well), theyll think Nick is the guy to lead their locker room to the promised land.

13 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I addressed some of it in the post you responded to. Ive also typed more in detail about it in previous seasons when people wanted Nick fired because Hurts sucks. My answer is still the same. Id LOVE to see him work without being handcuffed to Hurts. Im not saying he would be perfect. But I think he is a heck of a lot better than people assume. A lot of what he is blamed for may or may not even really be his doing.

All I'll say is there is a reason he's not getting another HC job.

CJGJ doing CJGJ things

1 minute ago, Diehardfan said:

All I'll say is there is a reason he's not getting another HC job.

Well, thats an assumption not a fact. And I think it will be proven incorrect.

15 minutes ago, paco said:

There are plenty of people to replace him. You could have picked any limey in that stadium and they would have managed the clock better.

23 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I know not everyone may agree. I discussed earlier and only @vikas83 responded. He leans towards supporting the decision of just playing for the long FG.

In the alternate scenario, which was my preference, the team is hurrying to the ball and trying to continue the momentum/drive and go for the TD. That puts the game away and we never end up talking about do or dont kick it off. There were 58 seconds left, and the clock was running. Its a hurry up scenario where a functional QB is not waiting to listen to a headset. He is running the offense all on his own. Does Hurts do that in those situations? I dont know. But that should be the expectation. That the QB is running things there. If he wasnt, thats not on the HC. And if he was, thats still not on the HC. In that scneario, just saying everything boils down to the HC is a biased copout.

So again, Id love to know whos decision it was. It would be pretty telling if we could see Siri reacting or not on the sideline when they let all that time tick away. And when the pass play is called who called it or was it audibled to? Would love to know who is responsible for all of those decisions on that drive. It was very disjointed.

I should also add that Nick and Co. should have had this discussion with Hurts on the sideline while the defense was still on the field.

It was a colossal error by the coaching staff IF this wasn’t clearly explained ahead of time and during the ensuing drive.