Rebuilding the team - discuss the future of the Eagles (orig post Sept 2020)

[Cochis_Calhoun]

I mean next year, we are going to have to trot some of these guys out there again, trade the best guys for whatever we can get and / or eat a ton of dead cap.

Honestly next year could be worse than this and I really don't see the point of keeping the same front office and coaching structure that let the roster degrade to this point around to try and rebuild it.

[seengreen]

At this point the needs are so many. The positions are so vary, I want draft positioning. Doug is lost and so is Carson. I'd rather them plan for the future. Get a good high pick. Flip that pick for others. It's time for a teardown.

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

29 minutes ago, seengreen said:

At this point the needs are so many. The positions are so vary, I want draft positioning. Doug is lost and so is Carson. I'd rather them plan for the future. Get a good high pick. Flip that pick for others. It's time for a teardown.

 

But do what with the pick? Flip it but then what? And why not use that pick to get a QB? Wentz isn't the answer that's clear. 

[c_u_in_tampa]

I mean who has faith in front office making the correct picks? I know I don't. 

[EagleJoe8]

52 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

It’s going to be really bad next year. They are going to have to gut this team to get under the cap. 
 

I don’t even know where to start with a rebuild, they basically need help at every position except RB, TE and DT. With no cap space and future cuts looming, they will need to fill these positions through the draft which Howie hasn’t been able to do. 

I'd say they could use help at RB too. I love Sanders, but he's had injury issues, and he plays a position you shouldn't build around anyway. Scott should come off the shelf when we play the Giants, and then the cupboard is bare.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

7 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

I'd say they could use help at RB too. I love Sanders, but he's had injury issues, and he plays a position you shouldn't build around anyway. Scott should come off the shelf when we play the Giants, and then the cupboard is bare.

I would agree with this. Sanders is a legit stud but he's not proven that he can carry a heavy load. 

[mjkvol]

55 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

It’s going to be really bad next year. They are going to have to gut this team to get under the cap. 
 

I don’t even know where to start with a rebuild, they basically need help at every position except RB, TE and DT. With no cap space and future cuts looming, they will need to fill these positions through the draft which Howie hasn’t been able to do. 

If the rebuild doesn't begin with the GM being fired and his replacement hiring a new coach, it's all moot anyway. 

[Mike030270]

Defensive needs a complete overhaul IMO

I assume we have to stick with 4-3 because of the contracts on the Dline?

[EazyEaglez]

10 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I would agree with this. Sanders is a legit stud but he's not proven that he can carry a heavy load. 

I have a hard time calling Sanders legit if he’s incapable of carrying a heavy load. He can’t be the every down back if he can’t do that. Also there are times when he has some mental lapses like dropped passes, missed blocks, and key fumbles. I think he’s a good player, but I don’t think he’s ever going to be elite.

[EazyEaglez]

18 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Defensive needs a complete overhaul IMO

I assume we have to stick with 4-3 because of the contracts on the Dline?

They could dump the wide 9 and actually invest in linebacker and safety. 

[eagle45]

14 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

They could dump the wide 9 and actually invest in linebacker and safety. 

Our offense gave up almost as many points as the defense today.  Investment probably should be on that side of the ball.

[c_u_in_tampa]

55 minutes ago, mjkvol said:

If the rebuild doesn't begin with the GM being fired and his replacement hiring a new coach, it's all moot anyway. 

There is no way Lurie fires anyone in the offseason. Lurie is very patient with the people he hires.

[EagleJoe8]

50 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I have a hard time calling Sanders legit if he’s incapable of carrying a heavy load. He can’t be the every down back if he can’t do that. Also there are times when he has some mental lapses like dropped passes, missed blocks, and key fumbles. I think he’s a good player, but I don’t think he’s ever going to be elite.

Agreed, plus he plays a position that's best not to commit long term to anyway.

[weko]

It will be a multi year re build and if Howie makes the picks it could take a long time

[Road to Victory]

24 minutes ago, c_u_in_tampa said:

There is no way Lurie fires anyone in the offseason. Lurie is very patient with the people he hires.

Normally, I would agree but this team is heading in the wrong direction. They have very little young talent on the team and they’re way over the cap next year. That’s a recipe for disaster. 

[mjkvol]

1 hour ago, c_u_in_tampa said:

There is no way Lurie fires anyone in the offseason. Lurie is very patient with the people he hires.

I'm painfully aware of that, and agree.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

10 hours ago, c_u_in_tampa said:

There is no way Lurie fires anyone in the offseason. Lurie is very patient with the people he hires.

If this season ends up at 3-12-1, there's no way the coaching and front office survives that intact.

[EagleJoe8]

5 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

If this season ends up at 3-12-1, there's no way the coaching and front office survives that intact.

I tend to agree, but I don’t see any changes being significant aside from a new DC since it’s easy enough to simply not renew Schwartz’s contract. You may see assistants removed and maybe some shuffling of the deck chairs on the Titanic, but I don’t see changes with Howie or Doug. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

10 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

I tend to agree, but I don’t see any changes being significant aside from a new DC since it’s easy enough to simply not renew Schwartz’s contract. You may see assistants removed and maybe some shuffling of the deck chairs on the Titanic, but I don’t see changes with Howie or Doug. 

Shuffling the minor roles after 3-12-1 wouldn't fly, even some of the beat writers are saying Doug might be on a hot seat, I get all the arguments about only being 3 years removed from a Superbowl, but some years feel longer than others. two years of stumbling out of the worst division in football followed by 3-12-1 with the roster the state it is you're looking at a full on rebuild, at that stage I can't see the wisdom of keeping the guys who dug the hole you're in, in the hope they can fill it in better.

[EagleJoe8]

13 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Shuffling the minor roles after 3-12-1 wouldn't fly, even some of the beat writers are saying Doug might be on a hot seat, I get all the arguments about only being 3 years removed from a Superbowl, but some years feel longer than others. two years of stumbling out of the worst division in football followed by 3-12-1 with the roster the state it is you're looking at a full on rebuild, at that stage I can't see the wisdom of keeping the guys who dug the hole you're in, in the hope they can fill it in better.

I agree changes should happen, but I’d be surprised if Lurie follows through. 

[NOTW]

Cowherd made some good points (this was before the Browns loss, regarding the reports of sloppy practice.  In short:

The Eagles let winning the SB get to their head.  They celebrated a whole year, put up statues and Doug wrote a book thinking he was the man.  Colin said you don't see the Patriots erecting any statues and they won 6.  

He compared it to someone winning the lottery and then going broke because they don't know how to act with money.

 

[seengreen]

21 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But do what with the pick? Flip it but then what? And why not use that pick to get a QB? Wentz isn't the answer that's clear. 

Yes, gets picks and flip them for more resources and picks. As for the QB question it always depends on who are the top QB's coming out at the time of the draft. 

[CaliEagle]

We need to draft 3 to 4 OL in the next draft.  Lane might never be the same. Hard to know.  Kelce will probably retire and he has been banged up.  Brooks has already had two serious leg injuries and he is around 30.  Dillard and Mialata are still not a lock at LT. This OL needs an infusion of youth and more importantly talent/athleticism.  Herbig doesn't seem athletic enough to be a future starter at guard.  I think Driscoll has some promise, but he needs to really hit the weights and be in a NFL offseason program to develop more.

[NOTW]

16 minutes ago, seengreen said:

Yes, gets picks and flip them for more resources and picks. As for the QB question it always depends on who are the top QB's coming out at the time of the draft. 

Howie sucks at drafting, the only good picks he makes are in 2 categories:

1. High picks where it's easier to select a top prospect because everyone basically knows they're good.
2. Late round picks that the positions coaches clamor for, like Stoutland loving an O lineman.

If they have a high draft pick I don't want them trading back far.  Maybe if they went from something like 5 down to 10 and got a package of whatever picks (2nd plus another pick? however the value thing works).  

They don't draft well picking in the 2nd half of the round.  They've had some ok picks but they need stud, star talent badly.  They can't take a guy who will take 4 years to become a decent starter or a guy who is average but hey he doesn't suck so there's that.  No they need top, top talent.  

That includes other rounds picking talent that fell from the previous round.  2013 they got Lane Johnson and Ertz.  It's easier to pick good players when you're picking higher and this team needs that.

[seengreen]

Just now, NOTW said:

Howie sucks at drafting, the only good picks he makes are in 2 categories:

1. High picks where it's easier to select a top prospect because everyone basically knows they're good.
2. Late round picks that the positions coaches clamor for, like Stoutland loving an O lineman.

If they have a high draft pick I don't want them trading back far.  Maybe if they went from something like 5 down to 10 and got a package of whatever picks (2nd plus another pick? however the value thing works).  

They don't draft well picking in the 2nd half of the round.  They've had some ok picks but they need stud, star talent badly.  They can't take a guy who will take 4 years to become a decent starter or a guy who is average but hey he doesn't suck so there's that.  No they need top, top talent.  

That includes other rounds picking talent that fell from the previous round.  2013 they got Lane Johnson and Ertz.  It's easier to pick good players when you're picking higher and this team needs that.

All this is true. But, I no longer care. I much rather them have the draft capital to offer and be able to move and attain more value than for just 1 high, 1st rd pick. They have too many needs on this team not to think of looking towards the draft and packaging a high pick for more.