Rebuilding the team - discuss the future of the Eagles (orig post Sept 2020)

[PoconoDon]

You can imagine any visual model you want, but if you look at building a team like a holistic wagon wheel, then the central hub of the wheel is the draft. Everything is connected to that and dependent upon it. Fail the draft for several years and you'll suffer talent deficiencies and salary cap problems. Succeed at drafting for several years and you'll be a legit SB contender with cap wiggle room.

Succeeding at the draft requires a unified vision of what type of team you are going to be on both sides of the ball and then chasing the top talent that fits perfectly. It's not a hard concept, just hard sometimes to execute. That said, other teams have done well for decades and the Eagles have not. Fix that and you fix the Eagles. Sadly for us, ONLY Jeffrey Lurie can make it happen and he is too in love with Howie to end what they've been doing. 

I'm glad they got 2017. It may well be the last one we see in  this little corner of the multiverse.

[thedanone82]

I'd point to a defensive overhaul more than anything and it starts with the DC. I know people point at Howie (deservedly so) and Doug but I feel Doug really does well and can get wins with a replacement level offense...not to mention Wentz playing like a rookie. A decent defense and we could be looking at running away with this division.

[NOTW]

32 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

You can imagine any visual model you want, but if you look at building a team like a holistic wagon wheel, then the central hub of the wheel is the draft. Everything is connected to that and dependent upon it. Fail the draft for several years and you'll suffer talent deficiencies and salary cap problems. Succeed at drafting for several years and you'll be a legit SB contender with cap wiggle room.

Succeeding at the draft requires a unified vision of what type of team you are going to be on both sides of the ball and then chasing the top talent that fits perfectly. It's not a hard concept, just hard sometimes to execute. That said, other teams have done well for decades and the Eagles have not. Fix that and you fix the Eagles. Sadly for us, ONLY Jeffrey Lurie can make it happen and he is too in love with Howie to end what they've been doing. 

I'm glad they got 2017. It may well be the last one we see in  this little corner of the multiverse.

Agreed.

I said it when the Chip transitions were happening.  They kept changing their team identity based on the head coach.  They let Reid run the franchise, then let Chip reorganize all the philosophies, defensive and offense schemes and have to change over the roster and start finding players to fit.  Then they got rid of Chip and started all over again.  Some players remained in all those phases while others were casualties.  Connor Barwin for example was a good player and a leader but once the scheme changed again he didn't "fit."  Then you change again with Doug and then Carson and the offense have had changes to their assistant coaches under Doug.

No, instead you need a philosophy from the top down.  What kind of team are we?  What kind of offensive and defensive core philosophies do we have?  The GM sets that tone.  Then, you evaluate EVERYTHING against those core values.  Yes, you have to innovate and change to keep up with changing times.  But for example, the Eagles have not valued the LB position and/or have not identified strong talent there.  One philosophy they have had and been successful with is building the lines.  That's a philosophy that can always exist, but how that works out and evolve such as linemen getting leaner and more athletic but you still value building a strong line.  

How you scout, how you evaluate trades and free agents, how you put together your draft board, how you evaluate players getting close to the end of their contracts, how you hire coaches at all levels, how you practice and prepare...all of it begins with setting the tone for what type of organization you want to be.

Then when you do change coaches, you are hiring another coach with the same core philosophies and you don't need to turn the roster over to find players that fit...you already have players that fit you just get a new coach to take them to the next level.  If you need a new QB you're not changing to a new style of QB based on who happens to be the top prospect that year but you're scouting and finding the guy that fits what you already do.

That has to start with a GM.  You can keep firing coaches and changing players but you're inserting new people into the same dynamic.  Take defensive coordinator for example.  Does anyone trust that Howie and Doug will hire a quality defensive coordinator?  Even if they do, does anyone trust that Howie can rebuild the defense through the draft?  The last star defensive player drafted was Fletcher Cox 8 years ago and that was a Reid pick.  

[Ray75]

8 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Agreed.

I said it when the Chip transitions were happening.  They kept changing their team identity based on the head coach.  They let Reid run the franchise, then let Chip reorganize all the philosophies, defensive and offense schemes and have to change over the roster and start finding players to fit.  Then they got rid of Chip and started all over again.  Some players remained in all those phases while others were casualties.  Connor Barwin for example was a good player and a leader but once the scheme changed again he didn't "fit."  Then you change again with Doug and then Carson and the offense have had changes to their assistant coaches under Doug.

No, instead you need a philosophy from the top down.  What kind of team are we?  What kind of offensive and defensive core philosophies do we have?  The GM sets that tone.  Then, you evaluate EVERYTHING against those core values.  Yes, you have to innovate and change to keep up with changing times.  But for example, the Eagles have not valued the LB position and/or have not identified strong talent there.  One philosophy they have had and been successful with is building the lines.  That's a philosophy that can always exist, but how that works out and evolve such as linemen getting leaner and more athletic but you still value building a strong line.  

How you scout, how you evaluate trades and free agents, how you put together your draft board, how you evaluate players getting close to the end of their contracts, how you hire coaches at all levels, how you practice and prepare...all of it begins with setting the tone for what type of organization you want to be.

Then when you do change coaches, you are hiring another coach with the same core philosophies and you don't need to turn the roster over to find players that fit...you already have players that fit you just get a new coach to take them to the next level.  If you need a new QB you're not changing to a new style of QB based on who happens to be the top prospect that year but you're scouting and finding the guy that fits what you already do.

That has to start with a GM.  You can keep firing coaches and changing players but you're inserting new people into the same dynamic.  Take defensive coordinator for example.  Does anyone trust that Howie and Doug will hire a quality defensive coordinator?  Even if they do, does anyone trust that Howie can rebuild the defense through the draft?  The last star defensive player drafted was Fletcher Cox 8 years ago and that was a Reid pick.  

Perfectly said! 👊🏻

[toughfighter83]

54 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Agreed.

I said it when the Chip transitions were happening.  They kept changing their team identity based on the head coach.  They let Reid run the franchise, then let Chip reorganize all the philosophies, defensive and offense schemes and have to change over the roster and start finding players to fit.  Then they got rid of Chip and started all over again.  Some players remained in all those phases while others were casualties.  Connor Barwin for example was a good player and a leader but once the scheme changed again he didn't "fit."  Then you change again with Doug and then Carson and the offense have had changes to their assistant coaches under Doug.

No, instead you need a philosophy from the top down.  What kind of team are we?  What kind of offensive and defensive core philosophies do we have?  The GM sets that tone.  Then, you evaluate EVERYTHING against those core values.  Yes, you have to innovate and change to keep up with changing times.  But for example, the Eagles have not valued the LB position and/or have not identified strong talent there.  One philosophy they have had and been successful with is building the lines.  That's a philosophy that can always exist, but how that works out and evolve such as linemen getting leaner and more athletic but you still value building a strong line.  

How you scout, how you evaluate trades and free agents, how you put together your draft board, how you evaluate players getting close to the end of their contracts, how you hire coaches at all levels, how you practice and prepare...all of it begins with setting the tone for what type of organization you want to be.

Then when you do change coaches, you are hiring another coach with the same core philosophies and you don't need to turn the roster over to find players that fit...you already have players that fit you just get a new coach to take them to the next level.  If you need a new QB you're not changing to a new style of QB based on who happens to be the top prospect that year but you're scouting and finding the guy that fits what you already do.

That has to start with a GM.  You can keep firing coaches and changing players but you're inserting new people into the same dynamic.  Take defensive coordinator for example.  Does anyone trust that Howie and Doug will hire a quality defensive coordinator?  Even if they do, does anyone trust that Howie can rebuild the defense through the draft?  The last star defensive player drafted was Fletcher Cox 8 years ago and that was a Reid pick.  

i think we need all the above in terms in quality, coaches and gm. we are always getting these rookie types in the fo, it has to change, it's killing this team.

[NOTW]

12 minutes ago, toughfighter83 said:

i think we need all the above in terms in quality, coaches and gm. we are always getting these rookie types in the fo, it has to change, it's killing this team.

Don't discount youth.  Example coordinators can have success even from college or in their first job after being a position coach.  Sometimes they have innovative ideas and when designing plays they can bring fresh perspective and that can be balanced with an experienced Head Coach.  Doug was a rookie HC who had a very good OC in Reich and QB coach.  Wentz was surrounded by strong coaching.  Now that Doug has more experience as a HC I wouldn't mind a younger or rookie OC but who calls the plays.  Doug shouldn't be a play caller.

DC is where you probably want an experienced coach but you can have success going from a position coach to DC.  You never know, some guys seem like a good hire that come from successful teams working under a good coordinator and ready to make the leap.  Sometimes an experienced guy like Schwartz doesn't work out.  But that's for the GM and head coach to vet out.

[Ray75]

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2020/10/13/21514709/eagles-atlanta-falcons-path-philadelphia-howie-roseman-dan-quinn-thomas-dimitroff-nfl-fired-coach-gm

[manz2821]

2 hours ago, thedanone82 said:

I'd point to a defensive overhaul more than anything and it starts with the DC. I know people point at Howie (deservedly so) and Doug but I feel Doug really does well and can get wins with a replacement level offense...not to mention Wentz playing like a rookie. A decent defense and we could be looking at running away with this division.

Agreed.  Look at how Douglas and Jones are playing in their respective teams.  Both seem to be doing a lot better than they did here.  Why?  We thought Undlin was the problem as DB coach.  Well we now have a new DB coach and apart from Slay the pass defense is no good.  I would be shocked if the organization renews Schwartz's contract.  He has to go.

[NOTW]

On 9/28/2020 at 11:37 AM, NOTW said:

Step 1: Fire Howie. 

No, don't keep him to do contracts.  Then they can just fire the next GM and hand it back to Howie.  Nope, get him out of the organization.

There are other teams in the league with success managing the cap, negotiating contracts and making trades with other teams.  Howie USED to be good at those, but then he started making bad trades, bad contract extensions that have hurt the cap and his terrible drafting hurts the team more than his cap managements helps.  He has absolutely no business being over the draft which is the primary way to build the team.  He succeeded at buying a championship with some good free agent and trade moves and they were able to catch lightning in a bottle with Foles playing well and the team rallying around the underdog mantra.

Then they got cocky and kept believing their own hype.  The team is not hungry anymore.  Some guys are lazy, some are entitled, some are just collecting a paycheck.  It stands out when you see young guys like Sanders, Ward, Goedert giving a lot of effort and making plays.  I will credit Brandon Graham, he gave a lot of effort yesterday and made plays.  Kelce always gives 100% too.  But overall the team isn't hungry anymore.  Even Lane Johnson was getting beat a lot yesterday and has had injury concerns.  

Time for change and it starts with the GM.  

Step 2: Get voices outside the organization to help you pick a proper GM.

They had the right idea hiring Joe Douglas, it just didn't work out but keep that philosophy:  look at guys from successful organizations that draft well and have a solid philosophy.  Then EVERYTHING you do is filtered through that philosophy.  Hiring coaches, scouts, personnel evaluators, the players you draft and sign and trade for, the conditioning, the way you practice, the scheme, the play calling, everything.  They have to stop changing their identity based on who the coach is.  Yes, they should be innovative and continue to grow and evolve but within the guidelines of the philosophy.  For example, you can value building both lines and having strong defense but still adapt scheme and players to the changing landscape of the NFL.

Step 3: Coaches

A new GM might want to clean house.  But I would say Doug has earned at least another year or two to work within a new structure.  Doug needs to have an OC to call plays and he can game manage and be aggressive.  You want to keep Fipp, Stoutland and probably Duce.  Schwartz' contract is up and he'll be gone anyway so a new DC can hire new coaches.  I'd also be ok if a new GM wanted Doug gone to start over.

Step 4: Purge the personnel department

Blow it up, rebuild it.  Bring in staff from other teams.  They need better scouts and a new structure where the GM has final say on the draft but is someone knowledgeable to make those decisions, and a solid team building their draft board. Utilizing analytics is great but you need a balance of "the football guy" who just knows what works and doesn't.  No team drafts perfect and there are always hits and misses but this team cannot draft.  The only good draft picks they seem to make are the guys that everyone including fans know they're going to be a good player. Case in point, they draft Sanders who everyone thought would be a good RB and they draft JJAW in the same round while passing on other better WR options.

Step 5: Purge the roster

Salary cap issues, injuries, and age aside, complacency and laziness have also set in.  They need to start this now by having a fire sale before the trade deadline.  Collect draft picks, dump salaries and at the end of the season release players or let walk in free agency and get those comp picks.  People will debate Wentz but contract wise you have to keep him for now.  You may want to bench him and see what you have in Hurts but the next GM will decide the QB position for the future.

You probably keep most rookies and 2nd year players to see how they do in camp next year (but JJAW should be cut like yesterday).  Their contracts are not a problem anyway and can always be cut if better players are selected next season.  But of the core guys you keep:

Offense:  Sanders, Scott, Goedert, Reagor, Ward, Kelce, Lane.  You need replacements for Kelce and Lane to develop as they don't have as much time left.  

Defense: Slay, Hargrave...honestly they do have to keep some defenders just to have bodies but there's not much else worth mentioning.  Need a total rebuild of the defense.  Cox and Graham have been good but salary and age means they have to go. 

Step 6: Medical and conditioning

They hired new directors over these areas and injuries are just as much a problem as before.  They need to really rethink this and analyze it.  Are they scouting players with injury history or poor conditioning or from "weak" conferences with "soft" players?  Revisit the Chip Kelly era where despite anything else you didn't like about him the team was healthy.  Players said they felt well conditioned as the season went on.  Find what was working well and implement major changes.  The injuries are just at an absurd level at this point.

 

Yup

[NOTW]

I stand by the plan ^

[brkmsn]

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

I stand by the plan ^

You're pretty proud of that, I see.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

6 hours ago, NOTW said:

I stand by the plan ^

That's because regardless of what this team does the next few weeks it isn't a good team and your plan is a good plan.

So what rallying so late against the Giants is a great result? The 1-6 Giants? Tieing with the Bengals? Losing to the no named football team? This is a bad football team and that's because overall it just isn't a very good roster. 

[NOTW]

11 hours ago, brkmsn said:

You're pretty proud of that, I see.

You're pretty proud of JJAW and defending Howie, I see.  

It's just one fan's opinion.  But everyone keeps talking about fire Doug, fire Schwartz, change QB, just do this or that, tank for draft picks...none of it matters if the top person making decisions isn't the right one to make the necessary changes.

[QBhunter58]

On 10/13/2020 at 12:48 PM, NOTW said:

Agreed.

I said it when the Chip transitions were happening.  They kept changing their team identity based on the head coach.  They let Reid run the franchise, then let Chip reorganize all the philosophies, defensive and offense schemes and have to change over the roster and start finding players to fit.  Then they got rid of Chip and started all over again.  Some players remained in all those phases while others were casualties.  Connor Barwin for example was a good player and a leader but once the scheme changed again he didn't "fit."  Then you change again with Doug and then Carson and the offense have had changes to their assistant coaches under Doug.

No, instead you need a philosophy from the top down.  What kind of team are we?  What kind of offensive and defensive core philosophies do we have?  The GM sets that tone.  Then, you evaluate EVERYTHING against those core values.  Yes, you have to innovate and change to keep up with changing times.  But for example, the Eagles have not valued the LB position and/or have not identified strong talent there.  One philosophy they have had and been successful with is building the lines.  That's a philosophy that can always exist, but how that works out and evolve such as linemen getting leaner and more athletic but you still value building a strong line.  

 

So good...

[ManchesterEagle]

This is going to be an incredibly unpopular opinion, but I think we need to retool rather than rebuild. The D needs some serious help for sure, but this is what our starting O should look like in 2021.

QB Wentz

RB Sanders

X WR - Fulgham

Y WR Reagor

Slot - Ward

TE - Goedert

LT - Mailata/Dillard

LG -Seamulo

C - Kelce

RG - Brooks

RT - Johnson 

That's pretty good right? Sure we need to add another RB and we definitely need depth and young talent on the interior line, but that's a legitimate starting O. The issue this year is that the injuries have been crippling and Wentz has been too inconsistent (he's been a lot better in trying circumstances the last 3 weeks). 

Now the D needs more help - but if we can add at DE, find a legitimate (doesn't have to be great) starting linebacker or two and a legitimate CB2 then the D is also pretty good.

We absolutely need to trade Ertz (and it's a shame he is lowering his value through injury/performance), but there is another talent there IMO for a run over the next couple of years before Cox/Graham/Slay etc start to seriously decline.

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

This is going to be an incredibly unpopular opinion, but I think we need to retool rather than rebuild. The D needs some serious help for sure, but this is what our starting O should look like in 2021.

QB Wentz

RB Sanders

X WR - Fulgham

Y WR Reagor

Slot - Ward

TE - Goedert

LT - Mailata/Dillard

LG -Seamulo

C - Kelce

RG - Brooks

RT - Johnson 

That's pretty good right? Sure we need to add another RB and we definitely need depth and young talent on the interior line, but that's a legitimate starting O. The issue this year is that the injuries have been crippling and Wentz has been too inconsistent (he's been a lot better in trying circumstances the last 3 weeks). 

Now the D needs more help - but if we can add at DE, find a legitimate (doesn't have to be great) starting linebacker or two and a legitimate CB2 then the D is also pretty good.

We absolutely need to trade Ertz (and it's a shame he is lowering his value through injury/performance), but there is another talent there IMO for a run over the next couple of years before Cox/Graham/Slay etc start to seriously decline.

 

100% agree with this.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

12 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

This is going to be an incredibly unpopular opinion, but I think we need to retool rather than rebuild

Hey I mean we are all entitled to our opinions bud but... Really? A retool? Are you Howie in disguise? What's going on bud? 😁

This team needs a major rebuild. The D does need more work than the offense no doubt but the offense needs work. They need to add a RB, a TE #2 and another good WR. They need to add a C, a LG and perhaps a LT or at least a swing tackle. None of that needs premium picks perhaps but they need to get it right. 

Defense needs a massive overhaul but I know you're on board with that. 😁

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

This is going to be an incredibly unpopular opinion, but I think we need to retool rather than rebuild. The D needs some serious help for sure, but this is what our starting O should look like in 2021.

This next draft needs to be focused on the defense.  We need 2 outside corner, one to play immediately and a developmental corner.  A safety, a starting MLB and DE depth.  I think O Line depth is fine for now, if only one or two are playing it would be OK.

[ManchesterEagle]

8 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Hey I mean we are all entitled to our opinions bud but... Really? A retool? Are you Howie in disguise? What's going on bud? 😁

This team needs a major rebuild. The D does need more work than the offense no doubt but the offense needs work. They need to add a RB, a TE #2 and another good WR. They need to add a C, a LG and perhaps a LT or at least a swing tackle. None of that needs premium picks perhaps but they need to get it right. 

Defense needs a massive overhaul but I know you're on board with that. 😁

Haha! If I was Howie, I would have left this board a long time ago. I'm more likely to be Schwartz.

But seriously think about what you've just said - the O just needs depth. If we can somehow get a second for Ertz, we can use an early pick on an interior lineman. Add a RB in the third or fourth to support Sanders/Scott. Heck get another one in the fifth. WR - we have our 3 and Hightower looks okay as the number 4 with further development. Watkins may also come on. Sure always nice to add depth, but it's not a major need now we have Fulgham. TE2 would be nice - but Rodgers can fill that role as well. Add a pick in the late round. The starters are set - just need depth/injury cover.

The D - yeah needs work - needs some young talent. Should be the focus of the draft. But if Davion Taylor is ready in year 2 and Wallace becomes the player we think he can be, then we are not too far away from having at least a workable D. 

This team isn't nearly as bad as people think, we just need to stop with the horrendous injuries.

[ManchesterEagle]

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

This next draft needs to be focused on the defense.  We need 2 outside corner, one to play immediately and a developmental corner.  A safety, a starting MLB and DE depth.  I think O Line depth is fine for now, if only one or two are playing it would be OK.

I'd definitely like to add an OG/C as cover and as a potential replacement for Brooks (injury) and Kelce (retirement).

But agreed. The D has been badly ignored in the draft for a while now and needs to be a focus. There were so many good D prospects available when they took Hurts.

[NOTW]

44 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

This is going to be an incredibly unpopular opinion, but I think we need to retool rather than rebuild. The D needs some serious help for sure, but this is what our starting O should look like in 2021.

QB Wentz

RB Sanders

X WR - Fulgham

Y WR Reagor

Slot - Ward

TE - Goedert

LT - Mailata/Dillard

LG -Seamulo

C - Kelce

RG - Brooks

RT - Johnson 

That's pretty good right? Sure we need to add another RB and we definitely need depth and young talent on the interior line, but that's a legitimate starting O. The issue this year is that the injuries have been crippling and Wentz has been too inconsistent (he's been a lot better in trying circumstances the last 3 weeks). 

Now the D needs more help - but if we can add at DE, find a legitimate (doesn't have to be great) starting linebacker or two and a legitimate CB2 then the D is also pretty good.

We absolutely need to trade Ertz (and it's a shame he is lowering his value through injury/performance), but there is another talent there IMO for a run over the next couple of years before Cox/Graham/Slay etc start to seriously decline.

 

I agree with your overall assessment that the offense has many components.  I'll come back to that.  But I think in terms of rebuilding the ORGANIZATION not just the roster.  Scouting, drafting, scheme and play calling philosophies, structure of the coaching staff, medical & conditioning, evaluating players and determining when to extend vs when to trade or release at the right time, contracts, trade evaluations, all of it.  And that conclusion is to fire Howie and bring in a new GM from a consistently solid organization to reshape how they do things.

I agree they don't have to rebuild the offense in the sense of tanking, trading everyone for draft picks and starting over.  There are pieces there and some young guys.  But it means purging most of the older veterans or guys like Cox and Ertz who you're not going to want to extend contracts again because they're at the end of their careers.  In looking at your list above, it is the start of a rebuild/retool in a sense.  There's also the cap situation where they are going to have to release some guys.  I do not want them to restructure or extend a player unless they think he's a 4-5 year player.  They got in the contract mess with guys who are getting paid to be on IR for 2 years.  

The receivers on your list (which I agree with) are rebuilt over the last 2 seasons:  replacing Jeffrey, Jackson, Agholor and Ertz with the 4 young guys. Agree on adding backup talent at RB including a guy who can start if Sanders hurt.  Clement needs to go. 

On O line, it's time to rebuild.  Peters will be gone, and they should release Brooks who has been injured too much and it will only continue.  Kelce is still playing well.  His contract expires after 2021 so next year they have to decide if they're going to extend him.  Will he sign a 2 year deal?  You can't go beyond that, especially since he's talked retiring for 2 years.  Will he want more money and leave for another team?  Either way, they have to get a replacement plan this offseason. 

Lane Johnson is under contract until 2025!  But it looks like he can be released after 2022 with minimal damage to the cap.  Lane has been a beast but like Peters and Brooks toward the end, injuries are piling up.  A team can't keep going into a season relying on guys returning from injury who end up being out for the season or significant games each season a 2nd season in a row (or 3rd!).  If they have to keep relying on these young guys then just purge the injured guys...this team is not a Super Bowl contender anyway.  Go with the young O lineman and Kelce and Johnson but keep developing linemen ready to step in.

Don't forget looks like they need a new kicker, backup TE and depth at receiver since they have injury issues.  What if Reagor or Goedert gets hurt again and either Ward or Fulgham.  Then you are back to having scrubs at receiver.   

Your points on defense, you didn't list out next year's starters the same way as offense but you noted changes are needed.  Let's look at each unit:

D line:  Cox and Hargrave are both signed through 2022.  They should not extend or restructure Cox further as he's at the end.  He will play the next 2 seasons but you expect at his age the decline to start soon so you need a backup plan.  He's playing great right now.  Could potentially be trade bait though.  Graham's a free agent after next season and he also should not be extended or restructured.  Need youth.  They need to get a top DE prospect to pair with Barnett and have a replacement plan for Cox at DT.  But the D line has been the strength of the defense.

LB:  LOL.  They are hot garbage and they need to rebuild there.

Secondary:  blow it up, they suck. Slay is signed through 2023 and is their best player, you need him.  Literally everyone else in the secondary is at best just ok, some of them flat out suck.  They have not drafted top talent on defense since 2012 when Reid drafted Cox.  They are dreadful at drafting LB and secondary.  

 

[NOTW]

55 minutes ago, downundermike said:

This next draft needs to be focused on the defense.  We need 2 outside corner, one to play immediately and a developmental corner.  A safety, a starting MLB and DE depth.  I think O Line depth is fine for now, if only one or two are playing it would be OK.

We've been saying that for years.  You're talking about a team that flat out cannot draft secondary or LBs.  You listed 5 defensive players they need to draft, 2 of them to be instant starters.  That is a pipe dream  Yes it's what they need, but they have been historically bad at drafting the positions that they need the most.  

Since Howie took over again, they have drafted offense in the first 2 rounds 4 out of 5 drafts.  

2020: didn't draft defense until 3rd round.  QB factory.
2019: drafted 1 defensive player, in the 4th round.
2018:  drafted 2 defensive players both in the 4th round.  Traded out of the 1st because they didn't have any big needs.
2017: Barnett and a bunch of busts in a supposed deep corner class that should have set them up for years.     
2016: drafted all offense until the 6th round.  

It's a joke to think this team will fix the defense in 1 draft.  They will be lucky to get 1 defensive starter out of this draft. 

We're talking about Howie here.  He signs cheap free agents as band aids and pretends they're not desperate at those positions and ignores them in the draft.  When they do draft LB and secondary they're either mid to late round or they bust like Jones and Douglas.  

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Haha! If I was Howie, I would have left this board a long time ago. I'm more likely to be Schwartz.

But seriously think about what you've just said - the O just needs depth. If we can somehow get a second for Ertz, we can use an early pick on an interior lineman. Add a RB in the third or fourth to support Sanders/Scott. Heck get another one in the fifth. WR - we have our 3 and Hightower looks okay as the number 4 with further development. Watkins may also come on. Sure always nice to add depth, but it's not a major need now we have Fulgham. TE2 would be nice - but Rodgers can fill that role as well. Add a pick in the late round. The starters are set - just need depth/injury cover.

The D - yeah needs work - needs some young talent. Should be the focus of the draft. But if Davion Taylor is ready in year 2 and Wallace becomes the player we think he can be, then we are not too far away from having at least a workable D. 

This team isn't nearly as bad as people think, we just need to stop with the horrendous injuries.

Wait how many draft picks do they have?  You're saying to put focus on defense, but also draft O line, 2 RBs, TE that's 4 offensive draft picks alone for depth.

Also, no draft has 100% success.  Some guys don't work out, they bust or just get cut and go somewhere else.  In 2017 it was the supposed draft to address corner and RB for the foreseeable future in a deep class at those positions.  They busted on the 2 deepest positions and everyone from that draft has been cut except Barnett.  Gerry should be cut after this year he sucks.  

So you can never think that putting a list of positions on paper in just one draft will solve everything.  You have to assume at least a few picks won't work out.  There's also free agency to supplement but...they are in cap hell after this season so they really can't sign anyone.  

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

WR - we have our 3 and Hightower looks okay as the number 4 with further development

Most teams go with 5 or 6 WRs? We don't yet know what Reagor is. Fulgham looks great so far but it has only been 4 games. Hightower looks OK yeah I'll agree with that. We could absolutely do with another good WR no doubt about it. 

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

This team isn't nearly as bad as people think, we just need to stop with the horrendous injuries.

It is bud... It really really is. Its flat out bad that's why it has such a bad record and why it lost to Washington, tied with Cincinnati and just barely beat NY. It is a bad football team that's getting older at key positions. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

This is going to be an incredibly unpopular opinion, but I think we need to retool rather than rebuild. The D needs some serious help for sure, but this is what our starting O should look like in 2021.

QB Wentz

RB Sanders

X WR - Fulgham

Y WR Reagor

Slot - Ward

TE - Goedert

LT - Mailata/Dillard

LG -Seamulo

C - Kelce

RG - Brooks

RT - Johnson 

That's pretty good right? Sure we need to add another RB and we definitely need depth and young talent on the interior line, but that's a legitimate starting O. The issue this year is that the injuries have been crippling and Wentz has been too inconsistent (he's been a lot better in trying circumstances the last 3 weeks). 

Now the D needs more help - but if we can add at DE, find a legitimate (doesn't have to be great) starting linebacker or two and a legitimate CB2 then the D is also pretty good.

We absolutely need to trade Ertz (and it's a shame he is lowering his value through injury/performance), but there is another talent there IMO for a run over the next couple of years before Cox/Graham/Slay etc start to seriously decline.

 

I like it.  It's so much more realistic than to shred the whole organization from the Owner down.  There is a reasonable core here on offense.

The biggest concern with that plan is happens IF Kelce retires and IF Brooks continues the significant injury trend.  I am always most concerned with that group because as the Oline goes, so goes the team.