Rebuilding the team - discuss the future of the Eagles (orig post Sept 2020)

[ManchesterEagle]

22 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

If that were the case why have we looked like sheet since winning the SB?

 

Well firstly I think that's taking it a bit far - the last two years we still made the playoffs and in 2018, we were pretty close to making it to the Championship game again.

But in respect of the decline? Numerous reasons:

1) The injuries have been horrendous over the past 3 years.

2) In 2017 we got elite QB play from Wentz and then Foles. Both were up and down over the next 2 years and Wentz has been bad this year.

3) Losing Frank Reich has hurt.

4) The D has been largely ignored in the draft over the past 5 years and it's starting to show.

5) We paid Wentz, which has meant that we can't afford the players we could afford during his rookie contract.

And many more reasons. But that was still a legitimately good team in 2017, it's not like they snuck in at 9-7 and went on a run. 

[Procus]

2 hours ago, EagleVA said:

If that were the case why have we looked like sheet since winning the SB?

First off, the team went to the playoffs twice, and came within a hair's breadth of making it back to the NFCCG in 2018 against a very beatable Rams team.

Otherwise, losses on the coaching staff and roster. 

Reich and Flip were critical for the offense, the DL coach left.

Don't forget loss of Ajayi and LaGarette Blount - the offense never recovered from having pounding RB's.  Remember how the loss of Jordan Howard affected the team last year.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, Procus said:

First off, the team went to the playoffs twice, and came within a hair's breadth of making it back to the NFCCG in 2018 against a very beatable Rams team.

Otherwise, losses on the coaching staff and roster. 

Reich and Flip were critical for the offense, the DL coach left.

Don't forget loss of Ajayi and LaGarette Blount - the offense never recovered from having pounding RB's.  Remember how the loss of Jordan Howard affected the team last year.

This team has still been regressing. 2018 was definitely a regression. Ok sure they rallied late on but still. 2019 was a pretty poor year and was worse than 2018. And this year? It's been a complete disaster.

[jsdarkstar]

We need better palyers on the O Line and More Depth on the O Line. It's our top offseason priority, IMO. 

Time to fire Schwartz and Bring in a New Defensive Coordinator. 

Time to bring in an Offensie Coordinator to call plays and relieve Pederson of play calling duty. 

Time to Hire a Draft Expert and relieve Howie of Drafting players. 

We need to improve the LB Corps and the Secondary, especially Corner. 

 

[NOTW]

Lurie is the best owner they've ever had.  Consistent winning seasons and playoff appearances and whenever they've had bad seasons he's fired coaches and made changes.  There's a reason they hardly every have high picks naturally (other than trading up).  Previous owners were TERRIBLE.  Younger fans don't know how good they have it with Lurie.

He just needs a new GM where his strengths are the core things that build a successful championship team.  Under Reid, he relied on the HC to run personnel evaluation and Reid had his flaws there and some bad stretch of drafting.  Since then, Howie has been in charge of drafting and that is his biggest weakness...the most important part of building a team.

They bought a championship with previous draft picks by Reid, great trades and free agent signings by Howie that people now refer to "lightning in a bottle" that one season, plus the underdog mentality and rallying around Foles.  Many attribute the success to Reich and the decline to him leaving.

Howie is no longer a cap genius, or makes good trades or contract negotiations.  He had regressed like the team has.  Bad drafts, bad contracts to old/injury prone players they're stuck with, bad trades, kicked the can down the road on the salary cap and now 2021 is a mess.

There are 31 other teams that manage the cap.  Howie is not the only person in the NFL who can negotiate contracts or keep them under the cap.  He's done a good job with that earlier in his tenure but the SB gave this entire organization a big head and they kept trying to buy a championship by extending contracts and holding onto veterans who were at the end of their careers.

Now the issues of power struggles, lack of accountability, etc.  Yes they made the playoffs 2 years in a row after the SB but they are regressing fast.  Howie is not the guy you want in charge of rebuilding through the draft.

[phil77]

If someone trades for Wentz what kind of damage does that do to our cap?  

[toughfighter83]

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

This team has still been regressing. 2018 was definitely a regression. Ok sure they rallied late on but still. 2019 was a pretty poor year and was worse than 2018. And this year? It's been a complete disaster.

what's worse is that the talent that's regressing is old and not like 2012 eagles when the talent was young and able to make the playoffs the next year which is why they have to do a complete rebuild.

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Just now, toughfighter83 said:

what's worse is that the talent that's regressing is old and not like 2012 eagles when the talent was young and able to make the playoffs the next year which is why they have to do a complete rebuild.

 

Which is why Howie is such an issue. His inability to build a team through the draft has led this team to extend ageing veterans that should have been gone a year or two ago. 

[EagleVA]

53 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Lurie is the best owner they've ever had. 

That ain't saying much.

[PoconoDon]

5 hours ago, EagleVA said:

If that were the case why have we looked like sheet since winning the SB?

Because the team build was finished with a patchwork of older players or short term players filling critical roles, and they are all gone without equal or better replacements. Add in a few other players playing above their heads for that season and it was a perfect storm. It was magical, but it was 100% unsustainable. Howie tried to duplicate it for 2 more years and has failed miserably. His vision has failed. Thank him, and send him on his way. 

As for a replacement, look to college scouting directors from the best drafting teams like the Chiefs, Ravens, Steelers, etc. That's a good place to start the interview list. Second, supplement that interview list with former GM's who had a good record (like Dorsey for example.) Those interviews would be long arduous and detailed all day events. But at the end of each, you'd have a good idea about the knowledge, abilities, and vision that candidate brings. 

To me, from a football operations standpoint, it's the most important decision an owner can make. It's also the riskiest, but an owner needs courage to get to the mountain top, and even more to stay there. For the Eagles, I believe that test of courage for Jeffrey Lurie means parting ways with Howie Roseman. I hope he can meet that test well. 

[EagleVA]

23 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

Because the team build was finished with a patchwork of older players or short term players filling critical roles, and they are all gone without equal or better replacements. Add in a few other players playing above their heads for that season and it was a perfect storm. It was magical, but it was 100% unsustainable. Howie tried to duplicate it for 2 more years and has failed miserably. His vision has failed. Thank him, and send him on his way. 

As for a replacement, look to college scouting directors from the best drafting teams like the Chiefs, Ravens, Steelers, etc. That's a good place to start the interview list. Second, supplement that interview list with former GM's who had a good record (like Dorsey for example.) Those interviews would be long arduous and detailed all day events. But at the end of each, you'd have a good idea about the knowledge, abilities, and vision that candidate brings. 

To me, from a football operations standpoint, it's the most important decision an owner can make. It's also the riskiest, but an owner needs courage to get to the mountain top, and even more to stay there. For the Eagles, I believe that test of courage for Jeffrey Lurie means parting ways with Howie Roseman. I hope he can meet that test well. 

Is a magical perfect storm the same as a fluke?

[PoconoDon]

1 hour ago, EagleVA said:

Is a magical perfect storm the same as a fluke?

Yes.

It's a one-off set of circumstances that combine to create an unlikely event. Once it has passed, it doesn't repeat.

[toughfighter83]

48 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

Yes.

It's a one-off set of circumstances that combine to create an unlikely event. Once it has passed, it doesn't repeat.

if all the core players like cox, graham, long, jenkins, ertz, blount, smith, alshon were healthy and young and wentz didnt get hurt, we probably would be talking about a dynasty, it took so long for the core players to come together to win a superbowl because of howie's bad drafting that made us have to rely on older players that we couldnt keep and regressing which is good enough to win one super bowl.

the fact that howie refused to deal for younger core players when on the block, relying on late picks and aging, overpaying, and regressing vets and wentz regressing is the main reason why this team on the downfall.

[PoconoDon]

4 minutes ago, toughfighter83 said:

if all the core players like cox, graham, long, jenkins, ertz, blount, smith, alshon were healthy and young and wentz didnt get hurt, we probably would be talking about a dynasty, it took so long for the core players to come together to win a superbowl because of howie's bad drafting that made us have to rely on older players that we couldnt keep and regressing which is good enough to win one super bowl.

the fact that howie refused to deal for younger core players when on the block, relying on late picks and aging, overpaying, and regressing vets and wentz regressing is the main reason why this team on the downfall.

All true and the solution is to fire and replace Howie. The future of this team is up to Jeffrey Lurie alone. Whether he fixes it or he doesn't determines the outcome. We just have to wait and see, but at least we'll know what to expect even if we're not pleased.

[toughfighter83]

1 hour ago, PoconoDon said:

All true and the solution is to fire and replace Howie. The future of this team is up to Jeffrey Lurie alone. Whether he fixes it or he doesn't determines the outcome. We just have to wait and see, but at least we'll know what to expect even if we're not pleased.

if lurie hires john dorsey, this team has a great future, he knows how to draft and bring in talent, getting rid of bad contracts will be icing on the cake, so we have the money to bring in talent from fa and not relying just on the draft.

[wrestlevessel]

1 hour ago, toughfighter83 said:

if lurie hires john dorsey, this team has a great future, he knows how to draft and bring in talent, getting rid of bad contracts will be icing on the cake, so we have the money to bring in talent from fa and not relying just on the draft.

Is this wishful thinking or an actual possibility? 

[Mortimer]

4 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

Yes.

It's a one-off set of circumstances that combine to create an unlikely event. Once it has passed, it doesn't repeat.

Sure it does, 57 years from 2017. 

[eaglegenius]

Offer Wentz up for trade. Offer to pay 30 million of his 2021 salary, putting his salary in line with other top QBs (still a rip-off but maybe some desperado team with bite.)
Get a 2nd round pick in return. 

You might argue we'd be nuts to pay all that $ for a 2nd round pick, but I'd argue we're saving the other 55 million due over the next 2 years by getting rid of Wentz. 
Then draft Mac Jones or Kyle Trask. And start rebuilding the team around them.

[opa-opa]

Fire the trainers.

Fire the medical staff.

Maybe if we stopped getting half our team injured every year it would be a good first step to rebuilding.

[toughfighter83]

9 hours ago, wrestlevessel said:

Is this wishful thinking or an actual possibility? 

wishful thinking

[Traveler Vic]

There are a lot of posts, on this board, where people are discussing what needs to be done to improve this team. A lot of these posts are nothing more than wishful thinking.

There will be a lot finger pointing in the next several years. Probably some changes will occur. But the call to arms: "Let's Blow it up!" just can not happen.

Eagles are financially committed to Wentz and for the next several years... he is here to stay. Nobody in his right mind will take on his salary, considering his performance. All the complains about Darius Slay performances can be saved until 2022, because he is here to stay until then. All the contracts that Howie handed out...... has bound this teams hands to do any meaningful changes.

Any potential GM or a new coach will look at the financial situation, and if they have any brains, most likely will decline the Eagles. The desperate few coaches or GM's who may dare to come to Philly...will not  be the cream of the crop. Which brings us back to the same one and only conclusion. At least several years of misery and pain is to follow.

[time2rock]

[QBhunter58]

On 11/30/2020 at 2:25 PM, jsdarkstar said:

We need better palyers on the O Line and More Depth on the O Line. It's our top offseason priority, IMO. 

Time to fire Schwartz and Bring in a New Defensive Coordinator. 

Time to bring in an Offensie Coordinator to call plays and relieve Pederson of play calling duty. 

Time to Hire a Draft Expert and relieve Howie of Drafting players. 

We need to improve the LB Corps and the Secondary, especially Corner. 

 

I really hope Dillard shows out. He has all of the tools in the world, but he is missing one major trait that guys like Brooks, Kelce, Peters, and even Mailata have... killer instinct. I am really getting sick of this team drafting "nice guys" in the name of team chemistry. That 2018 squad had amazing chemistry, and they had some real "dawgs" as well (Barnett, Blount, Lane, Long, Mills, Jenk, Cox, etc...). Part of the reason I am having a hard time really connecting with some of the younger players on this team is because they have no personality, they are so vanilla.

I really want to love Sanders, but where hunger? I want to like Reagor, but I couldnt tell you a single thing about his personality. Where is the swag? Guys like Derek Barnett, JJAW, Shareef miller, Sid, Mack Hollins, etc pretty much put me to sleep. I like guys like Goedert, K'Vonn, and even Sweat, but they are far and few between. 

If you look at the guys who stick around on this roster, they are the ones with a little something extra. Jalen Mills is not a great player, but he is very good a one thing (red zone D) and he lets you know it. Guys like Singleton, Cre'von, and Boston Scott are not world beaters, but at least I feel like I could go out and grab a beer with them. Those kinds of guys let you know that they are leaving it all out on the field. This city craves players who have that kind of hunger and swagger, and this organization has left us starving. Say what you will about how awful Wentz has played, but I dont have to question whether or not he is pouring every ounce of effort into each game. 

The one thing good GMs do that Howie will almost never do, is take a guy with a little bit of an edge. Howie is the absolute KING of the safe pick. He evaluates talent poorly and takes few risks in the draft, instead capitalizing on other teams talent via free agency/trades. How are those safe picks working out for you now Howie?

And when we draft guys, can we please develop them! It is starting to feel like our coaching staff is the kiss of death for a lot of positions (outside of OL, DL, and maybe RB).

[Mortimer]

On 12/1/2020 at 1:16 AM, opa-opa said:

Fire the trainers.

Fire the medical staff.

Maybe if we stopped getting half our team injured every year it would be a good first step to rebuilding.

They are running out of medical staff to fire.   What they need to do is hire Chip Kelly on as Director of Smoothies.

[xxeaglesfanxx]

Future is bleak. They have very little building blocks in place to make anyone believe this team can compete in the next couple years. Basement dwellers for the next 3-4 years here we come.