Rebuilding the team - discuss the future of the Eagles (orig post Sept 2020)

[NOTW]

17 minutes ago, seengreen said:

All this is true. But, I no longer care. I much rather them have the draft capital to offer and be able to move and attain more value than for just 1 high, 1st rd pick. They have too many needs on this team not to think of looking towards the draft and packaging a high pick for more. 

Ah, but everyone only thinks about the 1st round.  Picking high means you also pick high in every round.  So those guys that fall out of the 1st round get within reach and either you stay put and take a 1st round talent with a high 2nd, or you can trade up.  

I agree on having draft capital, I like when they have flexibility to trade up using an extra pick.  I would have a fire sale and trade anyone I can for any picks I can, and let free agents walk to get comp picks and rebuild through the draft (hopefully without Howie).  There are many needs.

But they also need STAR talent DESPERATELY.  they can't keep taking guys like Barnett and Dillard and hoping they become solid players in 3-4 years.  Other teams manage to find absolute studs who tear it up their rookie seasons.  When was the last time the Eagles had that?

[Penn7980]

When you draft in the 2nd half of the round, you don't get the "star" players.  Strong scouting team will give you the chance to get good value on each round and UDFAs.  Good coaching staff will turn the player potential into real playing ability.  If these are not in place, you spend big bucks to sign FAs, which is not the formula to build a successful and consistent winner.  

[NOTW]

Keep in mind they're in cap hell in 2021.  They will have to cut guys and let free agents walk.  They will have no money to sign any new free agents.  They will have to re-sign Derek Barnett and potentially LeBlanc (hopefully not Mills).

They will be relying on the draft to make upgrades and have depth and prepare for replacing aging O linemen and get majorly needed help on defense.

The man in charge of reshaping the team for the coming years is Howie Roseman.

 

[seengreen]

18 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Ah, but everyone only thinks about the 1st round.  Picking high means you also pick high in every round.  So those guys that fall out of the 1st round get within reach and either you stay put and take a 1st round talent with a high 2nd, or you can trade up.  

I agree on having draft capital, I like when they have flexibility to trade up using an extra pick.  I would have a fire sale and trade anyone I can for any picks I can, and let free agents walk to get comp picks and rebuild through the draft (hopefully without Howie).  There are many needs.

But they also need STAR talent DESPERATELY.  they can't keep taking guys like Barnett and Dillard and hoping they become solid players in 3-4 years.  Other teams manage to find absolute studs who tear it up their rookie seasons.  When was the last time the Eagles had that?

Look, they are going to have some years of mediocrity or down right poor seasons, to attain the picks for a long term roster overhaul. For a couple of years of good drafts, they need to be smart, savvy and understand the market/ player valuations. But, they still need a football guy to run the draft and drafting dept. 

[NOTW]

3 hours ago, seengreen said:

Look, they are going to have some years of mediocrity or down right poor seasons, to attain the picks for a long term roster overhaul.

This part is true, they are likely having a losing season this year...

Quote

For a couple of years of good drafts, they need to be smart, savvy and understand the market/ player valuations. But, they still need a football guy to run the draft and drafting dept.

This is the part where this team fails.  Good drafts, smart, savvy, and the right person running the draft...  I agree with you, a good team should be able to scout and draft well regardless of draft order.  But this team doesn't do a good job of drafting so having a losing season this year and having high picks in every round will increase their odds of not screwing up.

[Procus]

The Eagles need a complete makeover at this stage.  For almost 20 years, the strength of the team was its OL.  Peters will be gone after the end of the year.  Kelce maybe has another year or two left - if that.  Lane Johnson has a serious ankle issue that could be career threatening.  Brandon Brooks is coming off another serious injury.  Kelce, Johnson and Brooks are on the wrong side of 30.  We see both this year, and from 2012, how the team basically implodes when the OL is blown up.  Without fixing the OL, the franchise is average at best.

Otherwise, the exodus from the coaching staff following the SB win has severely cramped the creativity and forward thinking of the offense. 

The defense just plain stinks.

The team is cap strapped for the next couple of years and is bogged down with large contracts for Wentz and Johnson who have not performed up to their contracts.

The organization has not shown it knows how to draft ever since Chip Kelly left.

Bottom line is that the team needs a complete makeover from the front office on down, and even with that, it will take at least 2 years, and possibly more to right the ship.  As for the front office, the change should be made sooner rather than later.  The team should be looking forward to relatively high draft position this year and next.  However, if nobody competent is making the picks, they will have been wasted.

Bottom line, short term future for the next couple of years does not look good.  After that - it's anybody's guess.

[DeathByEagle]

[Br3]

[time2rock]

7 minutes ago, Br3 said:

If you could read his mind right at that moment, what do you think he is thinking?

I’ll bet "shiny!!”

[wyote]

Yup, we got to buckle up. It's never going to be easy, but right now we're on the wrong side of everything -- too few really promising young players and too little room under the salary cap. 

Things can turn around quickly in the NFL sometimes, so there's no need to jump off a bridge. But seriously, for the rest of our lives the Eagles are probably only going to win the division about once every four years, go to the Super Bowl about once every sixteen, and win it about once every thirty-two. That's assuming the league doesn't expand. If any of us over forty ever see another Super Bowl victory, it'll be more than we had a right to ask for. 

That's sports. Disappointment year after year after year after year after year.... You ride it all out just in case you get that one year of joy. Meanwhile, you might as well savor any small victories you manage to steal. 

[Br3]

3 hours ago, time2rock said:

If you could read his mind right at that moment, what do you think he is thinking?

I’ll bet "shiny!!”

You can tell by that smug look on his face it could have also been I can’t believe Frank and Flip did all the work but I get the credit  

[Mike030270]

55 minutes ago, wyote said:

Yup, we got to buckle up. It's never going to be easy, but right now we're on the wrong side of everything -- too few really promising young players and too little room under the salary cap. 

Things can turn around quickly in the NFL sometimes, so there's no need to jump off a bridge. But seriously, for the rest of our lives the Eagles are probably only going to win the division about once every four years, go to the Super Bowl about once every sixteen, and win it about once every thirty-two. That's assuming the league doesn't expand. If any of us over forty ever see another Super Bowl victory, it'll be more than we had a right to ask for. 

That's sports. Disappointment year after year after year after year after year.... You ride it all out just in case you get that one year of joy. Meanwhile, you might as well savor any small victories you manage to steal. 

Agree with this. If done right then the team can be turned around easily. Most recent was Ravens I think. Though they didn't fire the HC even though they were going to

[time2rock]

5 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Agree with this. If done right then the team can be turned around easily. Most recent was Ravens I think. Though they didn't fire the HC even though they were going to

I’ve always like Harbaugh from his days here as STs and DB coach.  They’re lucky to have him, and he’s lucky to be in an organization that has been led by strong people at the top.  Newsome was easily one of the best GMs and talent evaluators in the business for years.  And Harbaugh’s staff structure is what Iv’e wanted to see here for years, where he, as HC, basically oversees the entire team from a bigger picture perspective and has really good coordinators that run their respective units that he trusts to get their jobs done (and done well).  Yes, I am envious.  

[DeathByEagle]

28 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Agree with this. If done right then the team can be turned around easily. Most recent was Ravens I think. Though they didn't fire the HC even though they were going to

I think the Ravens knew there was going to be a long line of teams looking to hire John if he was fired. I know the Eagles were waiting, thats why we took so long to even start the interview process that year and missed out on the top few coaches(yes they all sucked anyways). I dont think people will be blowing up Dougs phone to give him a new HC shot. Id sure take Jim Harbaugh if he is fired from Michigan. Dude don't put up with crap from the players. Sadly I dont think he would fit with the FO so he doesnt have a shot here. 

[Madriver]

3 hours ago, Procus said:

 

Bottom line, short term future for the next couple of years does not look good.  After that - it's anybody's guess.

I agree. We're looking at two years easy of bad football, and that's if major coaching, QB or GM changes are made immediately after this season.

Not only that, but we can no longer count on the division being garbage. The Giants have a good QB and are building the right way. Washington as well. Dallas and Philly will battle for the basement for the foreseeable future, and that's the only silver lining: the Pukes are in as bad or worse shape than we are.

[Iggles25]

3 hours ago, Br3 said:

Maybe the 'new norm' he was talking about was the coronavirus...because it certainly isn't a winning football culture.

[Br3]

7 minutes ago, Iggles25 said:

Maybe the 'new norm' he was talking about was the coronavirus...because it certainly isn't a winning football culture.

😂

[CaliEagle]

The Eagles need to be aggressive in the offseason and really fix the OL. I think they have to go under the assumption that Lane and Brooks will never be the same and if they are, then it's a bonus.  I think they should address T, G and possibly C if Kelce retires.  Address the OL with at least 3 draft picks.  Herbig, Pryor and Opeta should all be expendable.  Opeta is terrible and I can't see him developing into anything.  Herbig isn't athletic enough.  If you fix the OL, then you at least partially help Wentz with his issues and it helps give these WRs a second or two longer to get open. So, they will improve, too.  If Lane and Brooks return to form, then you can always consider a trade down the road.  I think Driscoll will benefit from a full offseason conditioning program, if the virus allows it.  I think he has good footwork, but has to get more strength.

[PoconoDon]

It's broken from the top down and must be fixed from the top down. There can be no scape goats even if willing to fall on their swords. Lurie must look objectively at his football team and start the rebuild with firing and replacing Howie Roseman. That doesn't mean shuffle him to some other position in the organization, but thanking him and sending him on his way to seek other employment. Hire a new GM to be the architect of the entire rebuild from vision to reality. That's where it must start IMO. Until then, nothing really changes.

[CaliEagle]

1 minute ago, PoconoDon said:

It's broken from the top down and must be fixed from the top down. There can be no scape goats even if willing to fall on their swords. Lurie must look objectively at his football team and start the rebuild with firing and replacing Howie Roseman. That doesn't mean shuffle him to some other position in the organization, but thanking him and sending him on his way to seek other employment. Hire a new GM to be the architect of the entire rebuild from vision to reality. That's where it must start IMO. Until then, nothing really changes.

I'd love to see it, but I'm guessing they will start with Press Taylor and they won't renew Schwartz. They also will probably let Marty or Rich go (or both) and go back to hiring an OC.   The only way I see them canning Doug and Howie is if they lose out and that might not even be enough for Lurie to part ways with Howie. I have a feeling that Lurie's friendship with Howie runs too deep for him to can him.  I'd love to be wrong about that.

[PoconoDon]

11 minutes ago, CaliEagle said:

I'd love to see it, but I'm guessing they will start with Press Taylor and they won't renew Schwartz. They also will probably let Marty or Rich go (or both) and go back to hiring an OC.   The only way I see them canning Doug and Howie is if they lose out and that might not even be enough for Lurie to part ways with Howie. I have a feeling that Lurie's friendship with Howie runs too deep for him to can him.  I'd love to be wrong about that.

I agree with you. I expect no meaningful changes. Just more whitewash on the rotting wood.

[EagleVA]

1 hour ago, CaliEagle said:

 I have a feeling that Lurie's friendship with Howie runs too deep for him to can him.  I'd love to be wrong about that.

I've been saying for years that Howie will be with the Eagles as long as Lurie owns the team, hopefully the know-nothing will sell the team.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

16 hours ago, Procus said:

Bottom line, short term future for the next couple of years does not look good.  After that - it's anybody's guess.

You know I was thinking this earlier. Maybe I have woken up in a bad and a negative mood today but...

If I go through position by position this team feels in a really bad place. 

Way over the cap with ageing players is a bad place to be. So Captain Obvious statement out of the way let's just think about that. 

DT is a mess. Cox is ageing and isn't the same player. Jackson may not be with his team next year and Hargrave hasn't looked good so far at all. At DE I'm not sure Barnett is back and BG needs replacing. That means in the next year or two we need to replace both DE spots and at least one DT spot. 

In the secondary we need a new outside CB and in the next couple of years a new CB to replace Slay. We need 2 new safeties and we may need a new slot CB if this team have now ruined Maddox.

On offense, the QB is a mess but let's just hope he turns it around. Will they extend Sanders? Doubtful given the likely price and the RB position as a whole in the NFL. The WR position is still a question mark and the whole OL is going to need redoing bar perhaps LG.

I mean it's actually quite frightening. To turn things around in the next couple of years they would need to hit on 75% of their draft picks at least. And find the right GM, HC and Coordinators.

[weko]

Time to sell players for picks and rebuild.

[MidMoFo]

15 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

It's broken from the top down and must be fixed from the top down. There can be no scape goats even if willing to fall on their swords. Lurie must look objectively at his football team and start the rebuild with firing and replacing Howie Roseman. That doesn't mean shuffle him to some other position in the organization, but thanking him and sending him on his way to seek other employment. Hire a new GM to be the architect of the entire rebuild from vision to reality. That's where it must start IMO. Until then, nothing really changes.

I agree with this. Let a NEW GM decide which pieces to build on. Could be with or without Doug and/or Wentz let a new gym decide.

Poor drafting has put us in a hole.

What candidates are out there?