EazyEaglez Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said: The QB factory does. Check the history of the league... Brett Favre, Mark Brunell, Jimmy Garrapolo, Kevin Kolb, AJ Feeley... Doug flipped for joy because he had a Taysom Hill clone... but, remember these are the same talent evaluators that wanted Reagor over Jefferson. Their 'expertise' can be called into question. You think Doug thought he had Taysom Hill? Now that is funny considering we NEVER saw Hurts play receiver. In fact, most of the times he took direct snaps and Wentz played receiver. Doug jumped for Taysom yet never once played Hurts like that. The Eagles never practiced Hurts in that fashion either. What did they do with Hurts? The gave him to Marty to study the playbook and BE A QUARTBACK. I get it though, because you beanbaggers still believe that Carson was always elite even when he clearly wasn't because you all were way too focused on blaming everyone but him for looking like hot garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Next_Up Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 27 minutes ago, jsb235 said: Unless i missed something, his post wasn't defending himself, it was defending all the anti hurts posters and claiming they were offering rational arguments the whole time and the hurts defenders were the unhinged ones constantly screaming racist at them. Which is clearly pretty detached from reality. Any of this sounding familiar the past 2 weeks from the Hurts Haters boy band? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 I'll stand by what I thought at the time, and what I told Ray Diddy on WIP the morning after the draft, when I was still working off the initial astonishment/excitement of the pick: The FO hedged in 2020 because they wanted insurance against Wentz rapidly deteriorating into the total trainwreck that he would become. There were definitely signs of multiple varieties from 2018-2020 that made me question his suitability as a franchise QB. The FO was actually extremely intuitive and shrewd in drafting Hurts. It was an A+ pick on all levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said: You think Doug thought he had Taysom Hill? Now that is funny considering we NEVER saw Hurts play receiver. In fact, most of the times he took direct snaps and Wentz played receiver. Doug jumped for Taysom yet never once played Hurts like that. The Eagles never practiced Hurts in that fashion either. What did they do with Hurts? The gave him to Marty to study the playbook and BE A QUARTBACK. I get it though, because you beanbaggers still believe that Carson was always elite even when he clearly wasn't because you all were way too focused on blaming everyone but him for looking like hot garbage. Sigh... Please get your facts straight... you can't change what the Eagles did with Hurts when he came to the team, nor what they said about him. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/24/doug-pederson-were-going-to-explore-jalen-hurts-skills/ "He has a unique skill set. You see what Taysom Hill has done in New Orleans . . . it’s something we’re going to explore,” Pederson said, via Dave Spadaro of the team’s website. Next... the stats for Hurts in the beginning of 2020 game logs... We see him coming into games... getting carries, getting a reception, getting to throw 3 passes. They had him on the field WITH Wentz, where Hurts was actually lining up as a RB. That's not me making things up... that's what they actually did with him. https://www.footballguys.com/stats/snap-counts/teams?team=PHI&year=2020 🤔 Was Hurts not practicing at the RB position when they were throwing him in to the games to RUN the ball while they never took Wentz off the field for the first 12 weeks of the year? Nope. They were "exploring" "his unique skill set". He was NOT practicing exclusively at QB. He was practicing as a gadget player and perhaps as a QB as well. BTW... none of this excuses Wentz for what happened. But, to claim that the plan was Hurts to take over for Wentz is rewriting history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said: We see him coming into games... getting carries, getting a reception, getting to throw 3 passes. They had him on the field WITH Wentz, where Hurts was actually lining up as a RB. Was Hurts not practicing at the RB position when they were throwing him in to the games to RUN the ball while they never took Wentz off the field for the first 12 weeks of the year? Nope. They were "exploring" "his unique skill set". He was NOT practicing exclusively at QB. He was practicing as a gadget player and perhaps as a QB as well. Because they wanted to see what they had and were too chickenshit about hurting wittle Wentz's feewlings and wrecking his fragile little mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Because they wanted to see what they had and were too chickenshit about hurting wittle Wentz's feewlings and wreck his fragile little mind. Sure. Putting 2 QBs on the field at once is totally normal and wouldn't be viewed by anyone as avant-garde and unorthodox. Best way to evaluate a young QB is by shuttling him on to the field a few times a game and hand him the ball to run as a RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTW Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 53 minutes ago, Swoop said: Again, if a player plays bad, he plays bad. If a player makes a stupid play, it's a stupid play. It's not really complicated. Russell Wilson throwing a pick to lose the Super Bowl was a bad play. That's not exactly an overreaction or "sky is falling' statement. Search the term "Hugger" in TATE, that alone shows many times it was used. Funny enough, the earliest search result is from you. Congratulations! https://www.eaglesmessageboard.com/topic/1407-emb-blog-2020-regular-season/?do=findComment&comment=297095 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said: Sure. Putting 2 QBs on the field at once is totally normal and wouldn't be viewed by anyone as avant-garde and unorthodox. Best way to evaluate a young QB is by shuttling him on to the field a few times a game and hand him the ball to run as a RB. Read my post again, and think about it really hard this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoop Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, NOTW said: Search the term "Hugger" in TATE, that alone shows many times it was used. Funny enough, the earliest search result is from you. Congratulations! https://www.eaglesmessageboard.com/topic/1407-emb-blog-2020-regular-season/?do=findComment&comment=297095 Careful, some people around these parts may think hugger means something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Read my post again and think about it really hard this time. Oh, I read it. Not nearly as clever as you thought it was. Evaluate what you have in a QB by asking him to run the ball like a RB. Makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said: Oh, I read it. Not nearly as clever as you thought it was. Evaluate what you have in a QB by asking him to run the ball like a RB. Makes perfect sense. No, the point was that the FO is not without its faults and were too impotent at the time to actually challenge Wentz by making him directly compete against Hurts, but once Wentz had, beyond a reasonable doubt, acquitted himself as the monumentally ineffectual player that he is, they finally pulled the plug and tested Plan B. That's not to say that there wasn't some mystery surrounding whether Hurts could really cut it as an NFL QB. There definitely was, and although I think they were optimistic that he could ultimately be a QB1, the easiest way to test the waters at the time, in their minds, was to get Hurts into games in ways that could showcase his athleticism and football I.Q. without rocking the boat with Opie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Just now, EaglesRocker97 said: No, the point was that the FO is not without its faults and were too impotent to actually challenge Wentz by making him directly compete against Hurts, but once Wentz had, beyond a reasonable doubt, acquitted himself as the monumentally ineffectual player that he is, they finally pulled the plug and tested Plan B. That's not to say that there wasn't some mystery surrounding whether Hurts could really cut it as an NFL QB. There definitely was, and although I think they were optimistic that he could be a QB1, the easiest way to test the waters at the time in their minds was to get Hurts into games in ways that could showcase his intelligence and athleticism without rocking the boat with Opie. They were so convinced they tried to trade up for Zach Wilson... then they tried to trade for Russell Wilson and kicked the tires on Deshaun Watson this offseason. We are all pleased (or should be) that Hurts is balling out right now. BUT... we can't rewrite the history of the plan they had for him when they brought him in. It wasn't to be the heir apparent for Wentz by any means. And when Wentz wanted out... Hurts wasn't plan B. Trading up for Zach Wilson was plan B. Sticking with Hurts was plan C, at best. Remember there was rumors about the Eagles investigating Watson that off season as well. That's my only point with this. The Eagles seemed to have lucked into this much more than they had some sort of masterplan. Better to be lucky than good, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said: They were so convinced they tried to trade up for Zach Wilson... then they tried to trade for Russell Wilson and kicked the tires on Deshaun Watson this offseason. We are all pleased (or should be) that Hurts is balling out right now. BUT... we can't rewrite the history of the plan they had for him when they brought him in. It wasn't to be the heir apparent for Wentz by any means. And when Wentz wanted out... Hurts wasn't plan B. Trading up for Zach Wilson was plan B. Sticking with Hurts was plan C, at best. Remember there was rumors about the Eagles investigating Watson that off season as well. That's my only point with this. The Eagles seemed to have lucked into this much more than they had some sort of masterplan. Better to be lucky than good, I guess. None of this is "rewriting history" because, as fans, all we can really do is speculate here. You're probably right in that there's some dumb luck to this situation. I don't actually think the FO is that smart to have a "master plan," but I do think they drafted Hurts in 2020 at least partially over apprehension about Wentz. While those other potential moves you mention are merely rumors, It's very typical of Howie to test everything and keep his options open to a fault, so I can't totally discount them. I could see Wilson at the time seeming like an enticing possibility, if for nothing else than toward having a wealth of resources at the position. The Watson thing was always galling to me and seemed to be hot air from the media more than anything. Maybe Roseman & Co. were saved from themselves here more than anything, but I'm at least willing to give him them benefit of the doubt, and I do think that they were initially drawn to drafting Hurts because they saw good enough potential for him to grow into the role that he was worth the 53rd pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procus Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 14 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said: They were so convinced they tried to trade up for Zach Wilson... then they tried to trade for Russell Wilson and kicked the tires on Deshaun Watson this offseason. We are all pleased (or should be) that Hurts is balling out right now. BUT... we can't rewrite the history of the plan they had for him when they brought him in. It wasn't to be the heir apparent for Wentz by any means. And when Wentz wanted out... Hurts wasn't plan B. Trading up for Zach Wilson was plan B. Sticking with Hurts was plan C, at best. Remember there was rumors about the Eagles investigating Watson that off season as well. That's my only point with this. The Eagles seemed to have lucked into this much more than they had some sort of masterplan. Better to be lucky than good, I guess. Do you honestly believe any of us has a clue about the moves this team was thinking about? If there's been one constant with this organization, it's that it is tight lipped and practically all moves seem to come out of left field. The front office would never let it leak that it was interested in Russell Wilson or DeShaun Watson, or trading up for Zach Wilson if that were the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 15 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said: They were so convinced they tried to trade up for Zach Wilson... then they tried to trade for Russell Wilson and kicked the tires on Deshaun Watson this offseason. We are all pleased (or should be) that Hurts is balling out right now. Based on how bad both wilsons have been, we should be jumping for joy that this team doesn't have to find another qb for a decade, because they are crap at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, jsb235 said: Based on how bad both wilsons have been, we should be jumping for joy that this team doesn't have to find another qb for a decade, because they are crap at it. If only we could be that sure. Back in 2017, we were thinking very similar things about Wentz. How did that turn out? Too soon to be so certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 58 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said: Sigh... Please get your facts straight... you can't change what the Eagles did with Hurts when he came to the team, nor what they said about him. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/24/doug-pederson-were-going-to-explore-jalen-hurts-skills/ "He has a unique skill set. You see what Taysom Hill has done in New Orleans . . . it’s something we’re going to explore,” Pederson said, via Dave Spadaro of the team’s website. Next... the stats for Hurts in the beginning of 2020 game logs... We see him coming into games... getting carries, getting a reception, getting to throw 3 passes. They had him on the field WITH Wentz, where Hurts was actually lining up as a RB. That's not me making things up... that's what they actually did with him. https://www.footballguys.com/stats/snap-counts/teams?team=PHI&year=2020 🤔 Was Hurts not practicing at the RB position when they were throwing him in to the games to RUN the ball while they never took Wentz off the field for the first 12 weeks of the year? Nope. They were "exploring" "his unique skill set". He was NOT practicing exclusively at QB. He was practicing as a gadget player and perhaps as a QB as well. BTW... none of this excuses Wentz for what happened. But, to claim that the plan was Hurts to take over for Wentz is rewriting history. I’m gonna just post from Howie. " "I feel like I have two jobs. My job is to do everything I can to make Carson Wentzsuccessful — we’ve got so much invested in him. I think I’ve shown it by my actions, whether it’s trading up all those picks, to signing him to an extension and what we believe in him, and how talented he is. We can win a Super Bowl with him. We have an exceptional group of tight ends. We got these two young backs. We got an o-line that we are continuing to put resources in. Obviously we invest in the receiver position. I think, offensively, from the game we played in Seattle in the playoffs, we’re different. And that’s a good thing. I also think it helps Carson Wentz when you go and acquire Darius Slay who can go and get the ball back. When you get Nickell Robey-Coleman. When we add to our safety position. When we add some speed at linebacker. When you add Javon Hargrave. So that’s the first part of my job for this year. But, I also got a responsibility to the organization. I have a responsibility that’s different than just this year. And, listen, I love being part of this city. I love the passion about the Eagles. I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else. I feel so fortunate to be the GM of this team, and I understand that I have to make difficult decisions. I don’t want anything more than to bring happiness to our fans, but the bottom line is they’re happy when we’re winning games.” Howie again: [Howie Roseman said Wednesday morning in a conversation with Angelo Cataldi on the WIP Morning Show that he has no regrets about drafting Hurts in the second round last year despite it seemingly leading to Wentz's 2020 struggles and eventually his exit from Philadelphia. "It’s funny, because I look at what’s going on around the league and I think specifically about San Francisco and they sat there and they said, ‘Hey, we like our starting quarterback (Jimmy Garoppolo), but we’ve got to make sure he stays on the field,’ and they traded three 1st-round picks to go up and get another (Trey Lance), and their quarterback had been a starting quarterback in the Super Bowl and they spent a lot of picks on that. "And that’s what we were saying last year, you know? We love Carson but we’ve played four playoff games and we’ve needed our backup quarterback in all of them. It’s too important of a position to not have that. Just thinking about where we were at the moment, it was the right thing to do. It’s a hard decision but it was the right thing to do.”] If anyone is rewriting history it’s Howie, but it seems clear to me that he viewed the backup quarterback as a needed position. It’s also clear that he felt at some point they would need to move on from one of these quarterbacks. You’re getting more for the guy that’s playing than the one who isn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said: Sigh... Please get your facts straight... you can't change what the Eagles did with Hurts when he came to the team, nor what they said about him. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/24/doug-pederson-were-going-to-explore-jalen-hurts-skills/ "He has a unique skill set. You see what Taysom Hill has done in New Orleans . . . it’s something we’re going to explore,” Pederson said, via Dave Spadaro of the team’s website. Next... the stats for Hurts in the beginning of 2020 game logs... We see him coming into games... getting carries, getting a reception, getting to throw 3 passes. They had him on the field WITH Wentz, where Hurts was actually lining up as a RB. That's not me making things up... that's what they actually did with him. https://www.footballguys.com/stats/snap-counts/teams?team=PHI&year=2020 🤔 Was Hurts not practicing at the RB position when they were throwing him in to the games to RUN the ball while they never took Wentz off the field for the first 12 weeks of the year? Nope. They were "exploring" "his unique skill set". He was NOT practicing exclusively at QB. He was practicing as a gadget player and perhaps as a QB as well. BTW... none of this excuses Wentz for what happened. But, to claim that the plan was Hurts to take over for Wentz is rewriting history. Now do Randall and Jaws. Was the plan to keep Jaws until he was 38? Next do Slash Stewart and Tomczak. Then Lamar and Flacco. The plan was not Hurts rules all but it also was not he's just going to be Taysom Hill for 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JournalistMic Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Super Simple! Player progression! Jalen Hurts continues to improve each year in a lot of different aspects. First off look at the numbers below; Jalen Hurts QB Rating 77.6 in 2020, 87.2 in 2021, and currently 106.5 in 2022. After three games, Jalen Hurts is on track to surpass 5,000 yards passing projected over 4k at least with 22 touchdowns (passing). Possibly 17 rushing TDs. He is learning how to read defenses better, but his timing (leading WRs) is still off. As long as he continues to improve each week, and each season one can only imagine how great of a QB he will be next season and the season after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KINGnabb Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Ok let's not revise history people. Saying "Nobody saw this coming" is not true. Plenty of people (cough, cough) believed this was possible. My only issue was there was some people quick to say "He's just a running back, he will never be a good passer". Even some talking media heads would be very harsh on Jalen (Now they're backtracking and admitting he's in the MVP race, lol) These types of proclamations could be brushed off as just strong opinions but they did come off way too "A matter of fact" when he was still young and developing. I said from the beginning that Jalen was a winner and we need to have patience and develop him. Then the whole "On 2nd Rookie year" jokes. Year One was only 4 games started and doing wild cat backup duty. Once he took the reigns, winning record and playoffs. He didn't play great his first playoff game. People were screaming to get rid of him after that. Once again I preached patience and that young player can learn from a tough playoff loss. Now Year 2 as the starter, off to one of the best starts in Eagles History. So again there's nothing wrong with having criticisms of Jalen's game but some people did take it a little far and weren't being fair to him. Some of that was also blowback from the Carson situation which wasn't even Jalen's fault. Obviously there were some fans that felt Carson shouldn't have to leave so there was some anger taken out on Jalen about that whole situation falling apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 57 minutes ago, Procus said: Do you honestly believe any of us has a clue about the moves this team was thinking about? If there's been one constant with this organization, it's that it is tight lipped and practically all moves seem to come out of left field. The front office would never let it leak that it was interested in Russell Wilson or DeShaun Watson, or trading up for Zach Wilson if that were the case. So true. When are people (other than you and me it seems) going to realize that anytime you hear the Eagles linked to a player they never get that player? When they actually get someone we’re shocked, because it’s never a name we expected. Who saw AJ Brown going to the Eagles? I remember they were linked to Jalen Ramsey forever it seemed. Aren’t they still trading for Anquan Boldin? Meanwhile the TO trade came out of left field! The Eagles never let anyone know what they’re really up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 There are lots of different people with different views on Hurts. The problem is the cockroaches who are still anti-Hurts and pretending this is all illusion are painting others with a broad brush. I think most rational people understood that his game was not refined as a passer. We varied wildly on how far and how fast he could improve. Alabama and Oklahoma did not want Joe Montana. They wanted run fast and throw to open guys vs overmatched corners. That's how they trained him in college. People want to forget that playing QB in the NFL is tough. Peyton Manning was 32-32 in his first 4 years with 81 picks and 10 pick 6's This is from the year Manning got Mora fired after 6 pick 6's and 6-10 (year 4) Put me down as someone who was certain Hurts would improve with play, dedication, Tom House, and better teammates. Don't pat me on the back just yet, I was hoping for incremental year to year Kyler Murray style improvement (y1 to y2 as a starter) 87 rating to 94 rating, maybe. I thought the huge leap was possible but I was expecting a much smaller step forward. Anyone who still thinks he was a bad pick or does not have the ability to be a stud QB is not paying attention. Foles had it too IMO but no one just hands 8 good years as a starter to you. Hurts still has lots of grinding to do but he's an A+ work ethic guy so I expect he will continue to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenal79 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 10 hours ago, EazyEaglez said: Comparing Wentz to Simmons is a far closer comparison than Hurts to Simmons. Heck even some on the field stuff is the same. Simmons refuses to shoot while Wentz refuses to stop playing the style of football that gets him sacked, fumbling, and getting injured. Both wanted out and refused to play again for their teams. Exactly. Wentz and Simmons are the same. Million dollar bodies, ten cent heads. All the talent and none of the work ethic. Hurts is totally the opposite. Not the best talent but obviously works to improve, is coachable, and a team player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Arsenal79 said: Exactly. Wentz and Simmons are the same. Million dollar bodies, ten cent heads. All the talent and none of the work ethic. Hurts is totally the opposite. Not the best talent but obviously works to improve, is coachable, and a team player. Simmons does not care about basketball like he should. Wentz cares about his t-shirts way more than football. He also cares about Wentz way more than team. Boo Hoo! We won a SB but I did not get to play. I'm so sad on America's Game. (I'm not sure another injured selfish jerk did this in all 50+ shows) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Wentz is also like Kevin Costner from Tin Cup. On 3rd and 3 he almost never takes the open RB in the flat for 5 yards when he can go deep baby! Who cares about the pressure or the coverage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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