Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[EazyEaglez]

The funniest thing going right now is all these supposed rumors on how the Eagles wanted all of these players over Hurts. The proof is in the actions. The quarterback coach is a friend of the family. The wide receiver is a guy he recruited to Alabama. The other wide receiver is his best friend. The offense they run is based out of what he did in college. Heck even Calvin Ridley has connections to Jalen Hurts, but yeah Howie really wanted to give up three first round picks to get a declining Russell Wilson to run in a system designed specifically for Jalen Hurts. Tell me another story beanbaggers.

[Procus]

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

Based on how bad both wilsons have been, we should be jumping for joy that this team doesn't have to find another qb for a decade, because they are crap at it. 

If the F.O. is so crap at finding QB's, how did it find Hurts?

[Procus]

13 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

The funniest thing going right now is all these supposed rumors on how the Eagles wanted all of these players over Hurts. The proof is in the actions. The quarterback coach is a friend of the family. The wide receiver is a guy he recruited to Alabama. The other wide receiver is his best friend. The offense they run is based out of what he did in college. Heck even Calvin Ridley has connections to Jalen Hurts, but yeah Howie really wanted to give up three first round picks to get a declining Russell Wilson to run in a system designed specifically for Jalen Hurts. Tell me another story beanbaggers.

Exactly, plus the Eagles were not in the position cap wise to pay Wilson, plus he didn't want to come here.  You just can't believe most rumors like this because they're in print.

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, Procus said:

Exactly, plus the Eagles were not in the position cap wise to pay Wilson, plus he didn't want to come here.  You just can't believe most rumors like this because they're in print.

This receiver group looks a lot worse if the Eagles used those picks on Wilson instead of AJ Brown, Davis, and a pick swap. Wilson can’t score points now as it is, but now Reagor is a starting option? 

[Bwestbrook36]

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

The funniest thing going right now is all these supposed rumors on how the Eagles wanted all of these players over Hurts. The proof is in the actions. The quarterback coach is a friend of the family. The wide receiver is a guy he recruited to Alabama. The other wide receiver is his best friend. The offense they run is based out of what he did in college. Heck even Calvin Ridley has connections to Jalen Hurts, but yeah Howie really wanted to give up three first round picks to get a declining Russell Wilson to run in a system designed specifically for Jalen Hurts. Tell me another story beanbaggers.

The draft day trade for Brown was a surprise but, all the connections were there that there was a possibility at some point they might get him. Hurts worked out with Brown before the draft and there was mention of what great friends they were and also there was already talk of brown wanting a new contract. 

TO had us on the list of teams he wanted to go to but screwed up his paper work to become a free agent. That's why he was pissed the Ravens traded for him.  So he was already linked to us, maybe some didn't think the eagles would trade for him or get him because it looked like the ravens were going to get him. 

[EazyEaglez]

18 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

The draft day trade for Brown was a surprise but, all the connections were there that there was a possibility at some point they might get him. Hurts worked out with Brown before the draft and there was mention of what great friends they were and also there was already talk of brown wanting a new contract. 

TO had us on the list of teams he wanted to go to but screwed up his paper work to become a free agent. That's why he was pissed the Ravens traded for him.  So he was already linked to us, maybe some didn't think the eagles would trade for him or get him because it looked like the ravens were going to get him. 

Both of those situations were much closer to the actual move than the way rumors swirled for other players. 

[ManchesterEagle]

9 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

No, no it really doesn't. There's a long paper trail of unreasonable vitriol along the lines of "Hurrr durrr, this guys SUCKS. He can't play QB. He's a joke!"

Nice job trying to downplay it, though!

 

8 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I can back you up too, you have been pretty reasonable 

 

8 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Unless i missed something, his post wasn't defending himself, it was defending all the anti hurts posters and claiming they were offering rational arguments the whole time and the hurts defenders were the unhinged ones constantly screaming racist at them. Which is clearly pretty detached from reality. 

 

8 hours ago, Swoop said:

Feel free to ask @ManchesterEagle if I'm a racist hater who wants him to fail. He and I have had multiple conversations about Hurts (several in this thread). He's on the Hurts support from day 1 side.

Sorry you're so upset 😂

Yeah Swoop was always a reasoned Hurts sceptic. Him @Bwestbrook36 and I had some decent debates and could at least agree to disagree. He’s not a hater or racist and wanted him to succeed.

That being said, the game day thread comment was ill judged and Swoop is conveniently ignoring the behaviour of some of the actual haters, who were vitriolic, who are currently gaslighting on this thread. I’m not saying they are racist either, most of them are just bitter Wentz fanboys. 

 

[Swoop]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

 

Yeah Swoop was always a reasoned Hurts sceptic. Him @Bwestbrook36 and I had some decent debates and could at least agree to disagree. He’s not a hater or racist and wanted him to succeed.

That being said, the game day thread comment was ill judged and Swoop is conveniently ignoring the behaviour of some of the actual haters, who were vitriolic, who are currently gaslighting on this thread. I’m not saying they are racist either, most of them are just bitter Wentz fanboys. 

 

To be very clear, I'm not ignoring that. I am strictly speaking on my own, personal experience. There are others who have been reasonable that have been hit with the same.

That doesn't mean that I don't realize other people are/have been over the top. 

I wasn't denying that.

[Infam]

8 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

So true. When are people (other than you and me it seems) going to realize that anytime you hear the Eagles linked to a player they never get that player? When they actually get someone we’re shocked, because it’s never a name we expected. Who saw AJ Brown going to the Eagles? I remember they were linked to Jalen Ramsey forever it seemed. Aren’t they still trading for Anquan Boldin? Meanwhile the TO trade came out of left field! The Eagles never let anyone know what they’re really up to.

Rarely happens, they like to keep things quiet. Notable exceptions: Slay and Bradberry. Thank god, they are taking our defense to another level now..

[Iggles_Phan]

9 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Now do Randall and Jaws. 

Was the plan to keep Jaws until he was 38?

Next do Slash Stewart and Tomczak.

Then Lamar and Flacco.

The plan was not Hurts rules all but it also was not he's just going to be Taysom Hill for 4 years.

Yeah... let's compare drafting a QB behind a 34 year old QB... and drafting one behind a 28 year old QB who had just signed an extension.  Totally the same thing.

You seem to be struggling with a string of false equivalencies here.  Tomczak was 33 and a career backup when Stewart was drafted.  (O'Donnell would have been the better comparison.  Of course, he was 29 and never exceeded 60% completions in his career up until then.).   Flacco was also 33 and clearly had topped out with that Super Bowl run.

[time2rock]

Through the first 3 weeks, this is where Hurts ranks among starting QBs:

Passer rating:  5th (106.5)

Passing yards:  3rd (916)

Completion %:  8th (67.4%)

EDIT:  oh and he is also 1st in yards/attempt

Obviously a lot of season go to (and also still quite a bit of room for improvement), but so far, you can't help but be encouraged by what he has shown so far.  

[Swoop]

The biggest things for me, as of now:

1) Can he keep this up? I don't expect him to pass for 300+ and 3 TDs in a single half, but the days of passing for 180 and running for 90 need to be over. Not saying every now and again isn't acceptable, but he cant be doing it week in week out. Additionally, I suspect he will have a bad game. They all do. Need to see how he responds to that.

2) How does his passing look when we are in a hole. Right now we've been moving the ball at will, for the most part. How is he going to look if we're down two scores late into the third quarter?

3) How does he look against bonafide playoff teams? We don't play many this year and while we can only play who's on the schedule, they haven't been great teams. I think at least two of the three so far finish close to or below .500

[brkmsn]

11 minutes ago, Swoop said:

The biggest things for me, as of now:

1) Can he keep this up? I don't expect him to pass for 300+ and 3 TDs in a single half, but the days of passing for 180 and running for 90 need to be over. Not saying every now and again isn't acceptable, but he cant be doing it week in week out. Additionally, I suspect he will have a bad game. They all do. Need to see how he responds to that.

2) How does his passing look when we are in a hole. Right now we've been moving the ball at will, for the most part. How is he going to look if we're down two scores late into the third quarter?

3) How does he look against bonafide playoff teams? We don't play many this year and while we can only play who's on the schedule, they haven't been great teams. I think at least two of the three so far finish close to or below .500

I don't think #3 is as important as how he looks against good or great defenses. In today's NFL, playoff teams often have mediocre defenses. 

Much of what you listed will be easier to evaluate after the season, obviously. I do think he has answered some of those questions already. For example how did he respond to a poor playoff game? He worked his tail off to become a better QB. He also showed the ability to play from a deficit last season. 

[Swoop]

9 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I don't think #3 is as important as how he looks against good or great defenses. In today's NFL, playoff teams often have mediocre defenses. 

Much of what you listed will be easier to evaluate after the season, obviously. I do think he has answered some of those questions already. For example how did he respond to a poor playoff game? He worked his tail off to become a better QB. He also showed the ability to play from a deficit last season. 

While I agree that some playoff teams have poor defenses, it goes beyond just that. It would be very different to play against Josh Allen than Kirk Cousins. That's definitely a factor, too.

[EazyEaglez]

Funny these so called reasonable comparisons made for Jalen were connecting him to guys like Kordell Stewart or Tyrod Taylor, but those same people got incensed when anyone compared him to Josh Allen despite their career progressions being similar. Those same people went on and on about Jalen”s injury history (his missed two available games and only one so far due to injury) and expectations there of completely ignore the injuries of their beloved stand up quarterbacks like Burrow, Herbert, and Wilson. Not to mention many of those same people have made nauseating excuses for the many injuries of the Eagles former quarterback. Being critical of Jalen Hurts game is not going off old tropes and a flawed history. Being critical of Jalen is discussing his mistakes and his successes. Most of these  🤡 wrote Jalen off way before the guy took a snap, and that’s why these sad sacks can’t even admit to their wrong doing. Continue to come around trying to defend yourselves for being sad sack Eagles fans. Most people see through all of you now. No one is buying your bull crap anymore. 

[brkmsn]

11 minutes ago, Swoop said:

While I agree that some playoff teams have poor defenses, it goes beyond just that. It would be very different to play against Josh Allen than Kirk Cousins. That's definitely a factor, too.

I just never really view QB matchups as a measuring stick. Hurts didn't perform badly against Tom Brady last season, he performed badly vs the bucs' defense. 

[Swoop]

32 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I just never really view QB matchups as a measuring stick. Hurts didn't perform badly against Tom Brady last season, he performed badly vs the bucs' defense. 

My point was that down two scores against Allen, who's much more likely to get his team points, is an entirely different animal than going up against Kirk Cousins, who may choose to throw it to Slay seven times.

[MF POON]

4 minutes ago, Swoop said:

My point was that down two scores against Allen, who's much more likely to get his team points, is an entirely different animal than going up against Kirk Cousins, who may choose to throw it to slay seven times.

I agree. But I honestly don't think the team would ease up in a situation vs a better team (Not that I like that they do it now). Like many, I want to see the offense put up more points in the 2nd half to put a team away and leave them with no hope.

[TorontoEagle]

48 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Funny these so called reasonable comparisons made for Jalen were connecting him to guys like Kordell Stewart or Tyrod Taylor, but those same people got incensed when anyone compared him to Josh Allen despite their career progressions being similar. Those same people went on and on about Jalen”s injury history (his missed two available games and only one so far due to injury) and expectations there of completely ignore the injuries of their beloved stand up quarterbacks like Burrow, Herbert, and Wilson. Not to mention many of those same people have made nauseating excuses for the many injuries of the Eagles former quarterback. Being critical of Jalen Hurts game is not going off old tropes and a flawed history. Being critical of Jalen is discussing his mistakes and his successes. Most of these  🤡 wrote Jalen off way before the guy took a snap, and that’s why these sad sacks can’t even admit to their wrong doing. Continue to come around trying to defend yourselves for being sad sack Eagles fans. Most people see through all of you now. No one is buying your bull crap anymore. 

Hurts also has a top tier support system. Brown/Smith/Goedert are great talents, and this o-line is easily top 3 (if not #1). Joe Burrow in this system would be far better IMO than he has been in Cincy. 

Hurts has transformed his game these last two weeks, and has become very good at throwing the ball. It's what we wanted to see from him. Running 17 times in a game should never happen.

[Swoop]

17 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Hurts also has a top tier support system. Brown/Smith/Goedert are great talents, and this o-line is easily top 3 (if not #1). Joe Burrow in this system would be far better IMO than he has been in Cincy. 

Hurts has transformed his game these last two weeks, and has become very good at throwing the ball. It's what we wanted to see from him. Running 17 times in a game should never happen.

Yep.

[MF POON]

21 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Hurts also has a top tier support system. Brown/Smith/Goedert are great talents, and this o-line is easily top 3 (if not #1). Joe Burrow in this system would be far better IMO than he has been in Cincy. 

Hurts has transformed his game these last two weeks, and has become very good at throwing the ball. It's what we wanted to see from him. Running 17 times in a game should never happen.

Burrow has talent around him, he just doesn't have the OL they thought they'd have. They expected that line to be great this year, and so far it's been awful.  They may get hot again, but I don't expect them to make the playoffs this season. Not unless Lamar gets hurt again

[SkippyX]

4 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yeah... let's compare drafting a QB behind a 34 year old QB... and drafting one behind a 28 year old QB who had just signed an extension.  Totally the same thing.

You seem to be struggling with a string of false equivalencies here.  Tomczak was 33 and a career backup when Stewart was drafted.  (O'Donnell would have been the better comparison.  Of course, he was 29 and never exceeded 60% completions in his career up until then.).   Flacco was also 33 and clearly had topped out with that Super Bowl run.

You are still wrong about them drafting a gadget guy instead of a QB of the future. All those examples prove unequivocally that future QBs with incredible athletic talent are often used in sub packages before they are ready. Even if it was getting a 1st rounder for him in year 3 or 4 Hurts was still drafted to be a starting QB.

Its like saying the signed Foles in 2016 to be a gadget guy. They signed him to be a starter if needed. Its what backups do.

Steve Young was brought in to be the starter in SF. Joe just got healthy when they did not expect it and was the pre-Brady GoaT.

You don't get to decide what Howie and Lurie were thinking and your guess at it is baseless.

Your entire argument is based on the asinine assumption that NFL GMs know you can guarantee that your starter will be both great and healthy for the next 4 years.

[SkippyX]

When was the last time an Eagles starting QB was both very good and healthy for 4 straight years?

Cunningham 1987-1990?

[ManchesterEagle]

14 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

No, the point was that the FO is not without its faults and were too impotent at the time to actually challenge Wentz by making him directly compete against Hurts, but once Wentz had, beyond a reasonable doubt, acquitted himself as the monumentally ineffectual player that he is, they finally pulled the plug and tested Plan B. That's not to say that there wasn't some mystery surrounding whether Hurts could really cut it as an NFL QB. There definitely was, and although I think they were optimistic that he could ultimately be a QB1, the easiest way to test the waters at the time, in their minds, was to get Hurts into games in ways that could showcase his athleticism and football I.Q. without rocking the boat with Opie.

 

14 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

They were so convinced they tried to trade up for Zach Wilson... then they tried to trade for Russell Wilson and kicked the tires on Deshaun Watson this offseason.   

 

We are all pleased (or should be) that Hurts is balling out right now.  BUT... we can't rewrite the history of the plan they had for him when they brought him in.  It wasn't to be the heir apparent for Wentz by any means.  And when Wentz wanted out... Hurts wasn't plan B.  Trading up for Zach Wilson was plan B.  Sticking with Hurts was plan C, at best.  Remember there was rumors about the Eagles investigating Watson that off season as well.   That's my only point with this.   The Eagles seemed to have lucked into this much more than they had some sort of masterplan.  Better to be lucky than good, I guess.

My take on this, for what it’s worth is as follows:

I was upset when they took Hurts. I saw it as a waste of a second round pick, I had doubts about Wentz but he had a strong finish to 2019 and for me was the guy going forward. I wanted a defensive player, Chinn, Fulton or Epenesa. 

The more I thought about it though, the more that it was clear they wanted an alternative option to Hurts or a plan B. You just don’t spend a 2nd round pick on a gadget/backup.

I think they were concerned about Wentz in a way that we just couldn’t see. Maybe it was the injuries, maybe it was how his teammates responded to him. Either way, Wentz was clearly unhappy with the pick and saw Hurts as a threat with the way he reacted.

Indy got rid of him after 1 year and giving up a lot for him. Wentz was decent last year and stayed healthy. But they couldn’t wait to pack him off. Again there must have been issues, more than just his play.

So yeah I think Hurts was drafted as a plan B. I don’t think the Eagles expected to have to go to plan B as quick as they did, but fortunately it seems to be working!
 

 

[SkippyX]

The 2000 Patriots had the highest paid QB in the NFL on a new deal.

Did they draft a gadget play guy in round 6 as their 4th QB?

The most important player on the team is the starting QB. The 2nd most important player is the backup QB.