Time to put Howie back in the basement? - Discuss Howie Roseman here

[Bwestbrook36]

[LacesOut]

Is that Hurricans Schwartz?? 😊

[PoconoDon]

[NYEagle]

I'm not sure if this hasn't been beaten to death, but in the Lurie press conference talking about Doug, when asked about Howie's drafts...he replied with something like....you don't have access to the knowledge that I do, I know what players we are going to take and when those players are taken 3 or 4 picks before...that is why we have had challenges?????  I'm sorry, so no good players were taken after you picked????  You don't have the ability to know they are going to be good?  You don't have a backup plan if your players on your board are picked??   I wish the reporters would have gone after him.

[Miami]

Fixed the coaching problem.  Giving Wentz a second chance.  Now we need to fix the drafting problem.  With Dorsey leaving, no question the pressure is on Howie now.  Can't mess it up again or else he is outta here or will cede drafting responsibility to an experienced voice. #NoMoreExcuses.

[NOTW]

3 hours ago, Miami said:

Fixed the coaching problem.  Giving Wentz a second chance.  Now we need to fix the drafting problem.  With Dorsey leaving, no question the pressure is on Howie now.  Can't mess it up again or else he is outta here or will cede drafting responsibility to an experienced voice. #NoMoreExcuses.

2 potential reasons for hope are 1) picking high and 2) Howie caring about picking players the new coaching staff really wants.  The problem is when Howie overrides picks because he's not qualified to do that.  

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, NOTW said:

2 potential reasons for hope are 1) picking high and 2) Howie caring about picking players the new coaching staff really wants.  The problem is when Howie overrides picks because he's not qualified to do that.  

Why would Howie care now about picking the right coaches but not before? I mean I know it's just a theory bud but if that's accurate in any way shape or form then Howie should be fired on the spot.

[NOTW]

2 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Why would Howie care now about picking the right coaches but not before? I mean I know it's just a theory bud but if that's accurate in any way shape or form then Howie should be fired on the spot.

Well, when they hired Chip he preached getting the right players for his new system.  Chip didn't have full power (when Howie was "in the basement" for a year) until 2015.  They took players like Ertz, Jordan Matthews, Josh Huff, Matt Barkley, Taylor Hart and others that Chip wanted.  Of course, in 2014 Howie told Chip they could get Matthews in the 2nd and Howie took Marcus Smith instead.  

2014 was also the offseason when there were 2 safeties available.  Everyone thought Jairus Byrd because he went to Oregon and Chip would want him.  Chip said no and wanted Malcolm Jenkins so that's who they signed.  (That worked out)

I think it's still selfish for Howie; he wants to take the credit for providing the players coach needs.  But he also makes overrides such as Marcus Smith.  I think after that they got the "yes man" in Doug, someone that wouldn't argue over Howie's selections like Chip.  

So how will Howie be with Sirianni? Will he stick to the board the scouts and coaches agree on?  If Siri and his staff are pounding their fist on the table for a player, will Howie do it or will he think he knows better? 

Like I said, it's "potential" hope that he will - at least at first - want to have a good honeymoon period and get the new coach the players he wants.  Then, the real Howie will emerge in future drafts.  

[Madriver]

3 hours ago, Miami said:

Fixed the coaching problem.  Giving Wentz a second chance.  Now we need to fix the drafting problem.  With Dorsey leaving, no question the pressure is on Howie now.  Can't mess it up again or else he is outta here or will cede drafting responsibility to an experienced voice. #NoMoreExcuses.

Dead on. Lurie has cleaned house in the coaching departments, getting younger, fresher eyes.

Howie gets one more shot this year IMO. Make no mistake, after a near top-to-bottom housecleaning, Howie's seat is definitely hotter than it was.

[Madriver]

30 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Well, when they hired Chip he preached getting the right players for his new system.  Chip didn't have full power (when Howie was "in the basement" for a year) until 2015.  They took players like Ertz, Jordan Matthews, Josh Huff, Matt Barkley, Taylor Hart and others that Chip wanted.  Of course, in 2014 Howie told Chip they could get Matthews in the 2nd and Howie took Marcus Smith instead.  

2014 was also the offseason when there were 2 safeties available.  Everyone thought Jairus Byrd because he went to Oregon and Chip would want him.  Chip said no and wanted Malcolm Jenkins so that's who they signed.  (That worked out)

I think it's still selfish for Howie; he wants to take the credit for providing the players coach needs.  But he also makes overrides such as Marcus Smith.  I think after that they got the "yes man" in Doug, someone that wouldn't argue over Howie's selections like Chip.  

So how will Howie be with Sirianni? Will he stick to the board the scouts and coaches agree on?  If Siri and his staff are pounding their fist on the table for a player, will Howie do it or will he think he knows better? 

Like I said, it's "potential" hope that he will - at least at first - want to have a good honeymoon period and get the new coach the players he wants.  Then, the real Howie will emerge in future drafts.  

I think we have a combination of Chip and Doug with Siri: an innovative young mind but with solid NFL pedigree from a winning NFL team, not a college team.

Experienced like Doug but not afraid to bring in guys who are equally innovative and who are young enough to want to grow with him. Together, they should be able to override any Howie foolishness.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

So how will Howie be with Sirianni? Will he stick to the board the scouts and coaches agree on?  If Siri and his staff are pounding their fist on the table for a player, will Howie do it or will he think he knows better? 

Howie always thinks he's the smartest man in the room or at least that's what has been said. Actions I would say support that story.

Whilst Howie is here the chances are there's going to be conflict in some form between him and the coaching staff. 

[EazyEaglez]

Howie is out here thinking he’s getting two firsts for Wentz is going to blow this thing. He’s going to outsmart himself, and push other teams into looking for other cheaper options and get left with a quarterback who doesn’t want to be an Eagle and a team that doesn’t want to play for the guy. 
 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2930465-carson-wentz-trade-rumors-eagles-want-matthew-stafford-package-for-qb

[UK_EaglesFan89]

7 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Howie is out here thinking he’s getting two firsts for Wentz is going to blow this thing. He’s going to outsmart himself, and push other teams into looking for other cheaper options and get left with a quarterback who doesn’t want to be an Eagle and a team that doesn’t want to play for the guy. 
 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2930465-carson-wentz-trade-rumors-eagles-want-matthew-stafford-package-for-qb

I mean this is Howie so yeah I would imagine so! Given the latest reports that Wentz has issues with Howie and not Lurie or the new coaching staff then that won't do Howie any favours with Wentz! I mean sure it's fine to "want" two firsts but that's in an ideal trade situation and the reality is they aren't going to get that. There are going to be plenty of other QBs available this off season and the longer this goes on the fewer interested teams there will be.

[Infam]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I mean this is Howie so yeah I would imagine so! Given the latest reports that Wentz has issues with Howie and not Lurie or the new coaching staff then that won't do Howie any favours with Wentz! I mean sure it's fine to "want" two firsts but that's in an ideal trade situation and the reality is they aren't going to get that. There are going to be plenty of other QBs available this off season and the longer this goes on the fewer interested teams there will be.

Most of the forum including you would've traded Wentz for a second. Many even for less!

Now we probably get a first and maybe much more? Good Job, Mr. Roseman.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I mean this is Howie so yeah I would imagine so! Given the latest reports that Wentz has issues with Howie and not Lurie or the new coaching staff then that won't do Howie any favours with Wentz! I mean sure it's fine to "want" two firsts but that's in an ideal trade situation and the reality is they aren't going to get that. There are going to be plenty of other QBs available this off season and the longer this goes on the fewer interested teams there will be.

It's going to be interesting to see the reaction when he gets a big haul for Wentz.  I suspect that he will get too much credit (and hero worship), but it's not because Howie is awesome.  It's because he is moving a premium asset that several teams seem to really appreciate.  Howie is still The Weasel - the guy who rarely gets it right.  It is time for Jeff Lurie to make the right call and dump him.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

49 minutes ago, Infam said:

Most of the forum including you would've traded Wentz for a second. Many even for less!

Now we probably get a first and maybe much more? Good Job, Mr. Roseman.

Because based on 2020 and based on his contract I really didn't think we'd get more than a second. I know the contract is different to Goff's but lets not forget it took 2 first round picks + Goff to get Stafford. Wentz is better than Goff for sure but substantially better? I think not.

38 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

It's going to be interesting to see the reaction when he gets a big haul for Wentz.  I suspect that he will get too much credit (and hero worship), but it's not because Howie is awesome.  It's because he is moving a premium asset that several teams seem to really appreciate.  Howie is still The Weasel - the guy who rarely gets it right.  It is time for Jeff Lurie to make the right call and dump him.

He will be lauded for getting a nice haul for Wentz no doubt. And yes ultimately he is moving a premium asset and no team wants to be in a position where they feel they have to move on from a premium asset. But if he gets a nice big haul for Wentz then he does deserve some small credit for that. Not a lot, not a ton but some. We hammer him for his bad moves (and there are a lot we know) so we should give him some praise when he manages to do something "positive".

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

10 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He will be lauded for getting a nice haul for Wentz no doubt. And yes ultimately he is moving a premium asset and no team wants to be in a position where they feel they have to move on from a premium asset. But if he gets a nice big haul for Wentz then he does deserve some small credit for that. Not a lot, not a ton but some. We hammer him for his bad moves (and there are a lot we know) so we should give him some praise when he manages to do something "positive".

The amount of failure that has to occur to dump your recently paid franchise QB is hard to grasp.  Let's pile on the amount of failure with the cap issue, the recent drafts, the roster quality, the staffing challenges, the meddling, and organizational culture here.  Given all of that, he deserves very little credit.  He created a massive mess and this "rebuild" falls squarely on his shoulders.  He caused it.

And funnier yet is the theory that Wentz, Doug, or anyone else should have been able to navigate the mess Howie created unfazed.  At least, it is coming out now who the real problem is.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

The amount of failure that has to occur to dump your recently paid franchise QB is hard to grasp.  Let's pile on the amount of failure with the cap issue, the recent drafts, the roster quality, the staffing challenges, the meddling, and organizational culture here.  Given all of that, he deserves very little credit.  He created a massive mess and this "rebuild" falls squarely on his shoulders.  He caused it.

And funnier yet is the theory that Wentz, Doug, or anyone else should have been able to navigate the mess Howie created unfazed.  At least, it is coming out now who the real problem is.

Oh absolutely this failure is down to Howie and the FO especially given the decision to give him that huge contract and then not long after draft a QB in the second round with what is meant to be a premium pick!

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

Just now, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Oh absolutely this failure is down to Howie and the FO especially given the decision to give him that huge contract and then not long after draft a QB in the second round with what is meant to be a premium pick!

That contract is a minor thing.  Once he made it, not staying committed and putting every possible resource to Wentz's success is a far bigger issue. 

When Wentz lights it up at his next stop, the needle will swing straight to Howie and he won't be able to hide no matter how many picks he gets.  That will prove that it was an organizational issue. 

Remember, the only reason to rebuild is because he failed on a massive level.  He failed with the QB, the cap, the draft, the coaches...all of the key parts to success in the NFL.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

5 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

That contract is a minor thing.  Once he made it, not staying committed and putting every possible resource to Wentz's success is a far bigger issue. 

When Wentz lights it up at his next stop, the needle will swing straight to Howie and he won't be able to hide no matter how many picks he gets.  That will prove that it was an organizational issue. 

Remember, the only reason to rebuild is because he failed on a massive level.  He failed with the QB, the cap, the draft, the coaches...all of the key parts to success in the NFL.

They will palm it off as "one of those things that happens in the NFL". Lurie has excused Howie so many times now that I am not sure whether he will be held accountable if Wentz does light it up somewhere else.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

5 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

They will palm it off as "one of those things that happens in the NFL". Lurie has excused Howie so many times now that I am not sure whether he will be held accountable if Wentz does light it up somewhere else.

You may be right.  You can fail at one individual part and chalk it up to multiple factors and people.  If it is all of the important parts to success...well, you might want to start looking at the top of the food chain. 

Hopefully, our hack media levels the same level of attack onto The Weasel that they used on Carson.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

4 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

You may be right.  You can fail at one individual part and chalk it up to multiple factors and people.  If it is all of the important parts to success...well, you might want to start looking at the top of the food chain. 

Hopefully, our hack media levels the same level of attack onto The Weasel that they used on Carson.

You'd certainly like to think they will. Howie deserves a lot more criticism and attack than any other person within the organisation!

[Infam]

21 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

They will palm it off as "one of those things that happens in the NFL". Lurie has excused Howie so many times now that I am not sure whether he will be held accountable if Wentz does light it up somewhere else.

Pretty sure that Lurie is holding him accountable just right. Just look how he moves on from almost everybody else..

For all we know he may have been right all the time and Lurie + DP + Douglas made the decisions. Not saying that's exactly what happened, but we don't really know and Lurie doesn't strike me as the type who would let personal relations screw over his franchise.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

21 minutes ago, Infam said:

Pretty sure that Lurie is holding him accountable just right. Just look how he moves on from almost everybody else..

For all we know he may have been right all the time and Lurie + DP + Douglas made the decisions. Not saying that's exactly what happened, but we don't really know and Lurie doesn't strike me as the type who would let personal relations screw over his franchise.

So you think Lurie is holding Howie to account? He remains in charge despite disastrous decision after disastrous decision?

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, Infam said:

Most of the forum including you would've traded Wentz for a second. Many even for less!

Now we probably get a first and maybe much more? Good Job, Mr. Roseman.

Let’s see it all plays out. If there really is a first already on the table Howie should take it. Expecting 2 firsts for Wentz is foolishness.