Time to put Howie back in the basement? - Discuss Howie Roseman here

[NOTW]

Every team makes bad picks sometimes.  Every team makes good or great picks sometimes.  It's impossible to never draft a good player.  

Howie's problems are not drafting enough true difference makers, too many busts, too many JAGs and too often missing out on a great player for a mediocre one.  

Plus, he doesn't know how to build a team.  He changes what he's looking for year to year. Last year he was obsessed with getting speed.  So he sometimes chose speed over just taking a good player.  He's also tried too hard to draft clones of a player.  Pumphrey the next Sproles, JJAW the next Jeffrey for example.

[EagleJoe8]

45 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Every team makes bad picks sometimes.  Every team makes good or great picks sometimes.  It's impossible to never draft a good player.  

Howie's problems are not drafting enough true difference makers, too many busts, too many JAGs and too often missing out on a great player for a mediocre one.  

Plus, he doesn't know how to build a team.  He changes what he's looking for year to year. Last year he was obsessed with getting speed.  So he sometimes chose speed over just taking a good player.  He's also tried too hard to draft clones of a player.  Pumphrey the next Sproles, JJAW the next Jeffrey for example.

I just mentioned your middle paragraph yesterday. Real difference makers is where Howie falls short. He just doesn’t get enough. 

[Vman1968]

51 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Every team makes bad picks sometimes.  Every team makes good or great picks sometimes.  It's impossible to never draft a good player.  

Howie's problems are not drafting enough true difference makers, too many busts, too many JAGs and too often missing out on a great player for a mediocre one.  

Plus, he doesn't know how to build a team.  He changes what he's looking for year to year. Last year he was obsessed with getting speed.  So he sometimes chose speed over just taking a good player.  He's also tried too hard to draft clones of a player.  Pumphrey the next Sproles, JJAW the next Jeffrey for example.

This is a very good point.   Howie does seem very scatter brained.   Used a high 2 on a WR for JJAW and got zero value for that pick, so this year he decides to go speed and we get 3 WR's in the draft but as usual he over thinks it and takes Reagor higher than he should, and left one of the top rookies in Justin Jefferson from the Vikings - who couldn't believe how lucky they were.   Jalen Hurts pick still in mind boggling.   Sounds like when they trade Wentz, they will still be drafting a QB and some say possibly with the number one they have.   So what was the purpose of Hurts?  I believe Howie's issue is he truly believes he's smarter than everyone else.  While winning the superbowl was awesome - i think it raised the ego of him to a point that is now detrimental to the team.   His drafts suck.   They just do.   He could auto draft and and do better.   When was the last time they drafted a difference maker or an all pro?   Fletcher Cox?   That's unacceptable.     Miles Sanders has a chance but the offensive philosophy has to change.  

That being said - as mentioned before - he has some kind of hold on Lurie.  Not sure what it is but Lurie looks past the horrendous salary cap and bad contract decisions, the piss poor drafting record and the overall embarrassing way that this team was built and how quick a team that won a superbowl feel into one of the 5 worst teams in the league.  The new norm is the same as the old norm.   From a team success standpoint back to being clueless and looking like they have no long term strategy or plan.   

 

[Vman1968]

On 2/15/2021 at 9:16 AM, brkmsn said:

The other thing that is odd around here is that most people were demanding a rebuild, complaining that we are holding o too long to old players and preventing young players from developing. Then when we draft a guy like Reagor, they give up on him because of Jefferson. Many had given up on Mailata before the season who was expected to be a long-term project. They want this rebuild, but they can't wait patiently for players to develop. 

No one gave up on Mailata.   He had zero expectations as a 7th round choice.   In fact the only person who did was Roseman who traded up to get another LT the following year only to see Mailata earn the job when peters got injured (again).  So now what do you do with two LTs and the project your drafted played better than that the guy you traded up for the following year?  Why are people upset a the Reagor pick?   Because no one had him in the first round.   And you had a chance at CeeDee Lamb or Jefferson, both with good rookie seasons where Reagor had very little impact and frankly no one sees him as a number one receiver and again will be looking to take a WR in the first round because you now have 3 drafts where you need a WR.  All this while you are 30 mil over the cap and coming off a 4-11-1 season in last place in a putrid NFC east.   

[brkmsn]

12 hours ago, Vman1968 said:

No one gave up on Mailata.   He had zero expectations as a 7th round choice.   In fact the only person who did was Roseman who traded up to get another LT the following year only to see Mailata earn the job when peters got injured (again).  So now what do you do with two LTs and the project your drafted played better than that the guy you traded up for the following year?  Why are people upset a the Reagor pick?   Because no one had him in the first round.   And you had a chance at CeeDee Lamb or Jefferson, both with good rookie seasons where Reagor had very little impact and frankly no one sees him as a number one receiver and again will be looking to take a WR in the first round because you now have 3 drafts where you need a WR.  All this while you are 30 mil over the cap and coming off a 4-11-1 season in last place in a putrid NFC east.   

Actually a lot of fans had given up on Mailata and there were articles speculating he wouldn't make the final roster in 2020. We'll have to wait and see how things unfold in 2021 at LT. I expect there will be a battle there in camp and preseason (if there is one). If both players show well, we could trade 1 to a LT needy team either right before the season or before the deadline during the season. Plenty of people had Reagor going in the 1st round. He wasn't part of the "big 3" so he was part of the group that people felt could be 1st or 2nd round. WR was considered the strength of the 2020 draft, so some of the guys that went in rd 2, could have projected as 1st rd picks in some other years. We did not have a chance for Lamb. Dallas picked before us. The funny thing about that is that nobody here complained after the draft that we didn't get Jefferson. People only complained that we didn't trade up to get Lamb before Dallas picked. Now everybody here is acting like they were for picking Jefferson the whole time. As for Reagor, I'm just seeing typical negadelphian pessimism around here. You don't know he won't ever be a #1. I actually think picking a WR with the #6 pick this year would be unwise. We have a lot of young WRs we invested in and have more glaring needs that we can address. Finally, I'm not worried about the cap or last year's sorry record. 

[wrestlevessel]

Brkmsn, if you thought 4-11-1 sucked last year wait until this year when we go 1-15 or 2-14. Team is ****. 

[brkmsn]

1 hour ago, wrestlevessel said:

Brkmsn, if you thought 4-11-1 sucked last year wait until this year when we go 1-15 or 2-14. Team is ****. 

Our 2020 record, IMO, was a reflection of too many injuries and coaching mismanagement. Even with all that, we were "in" virtually every game. With the expected upcoming changes due to cap and other things, I still see a team that can finish in the 8-8 area in 2021. 

[Infam]

10 hours ago, wrestlevessel said:

Brkmsn, if you thought 4-11-1 sucked last year wait until this year when we go 1-15 or 2-14. Team is ****. 

Not even seen the draft, and I am already willing to bet with you that the worst we can go in the East next year is 8-8

[Cochis_Calhoun]

13 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Actually a lot of fans had given up on Mailata and there were articles speculating he wouldn't make the final roster in 2020. We'll have to wait and see how things unfold in 2021 at LT. I expect there will be a battle there in camp and preseason (if there is one). If both players show well, we could trade 1 to a LT needy team either right before the season or before the deadline during the season. Plenty of people had Reagor going in the 1st round. He wasn't part of the "big 3" so he was part of the group that people felt could be 1st or 2nd round. WR was considered the strength of the 2020 draft, so some of the guys that went in rd 2, could have projected as 1st rd picks in some other years. We did not have a chance for Lamb. Dallas picked before us. The funny thing about that is that nobody here complained after the draft that we didn't get Jefferson. People only complained that we didn't trade up to get Lamb before Dallas picked. Now everybody here is acting like they were for picking Jefferson the whole time. As for Reagor, I'm just seeing typical negadelphian pessimism around here. You don't know he won't ever be a #1. I actually think picking a WR with the #6 pick this year would be unwise. We have a lot of young WRs we invested in and have more glaring needs that we can address. Finally, I'm not worried about the cap or last year's sorry record. 

c'moooon man, there were plenty of posts on here that said we screwed the pooch picking Reagor ahead of Jefferson, most of the mocks had us taking Jefferson, all the draft analysts said they expected Jefferson, but most of them will wish Reagor well because for good or ill that's the pick that our confederacy of dunces FO made.

I actually agree about taking a receiver at 6, but I could see Pitts and wouldn't mind that

Maybe Reagor kicks on with a new coaching staff, but his first season was not that promising, his chief asset of speed looks like a myth and his route running was average, his entire scouting report was based on the Horned Frogs QB's holding him back and yet he made it look more like he had one outlier good year.

[Vman1968]

1 hour ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

c'moooon man, there were plenty of posts on here that said we screwed the pooch picking Reagor ahead of Jefferson, most of the mocks had us taking Jefferson, all the draft analysts said they expected Jefferson, but most of them will wish Reagor well because for good or ill that's the pick that our confederacy of dunces FO made.

I actually agree about taking a receiver at 6, but I could see Pitts and wouldn't mind that

Maybe Reagor kicks on with a new coaching staff, but his first season was not that promising, his chief asset of speed looks like a myth and his route running was average, his entire scouting report was based on the Horned Frogs QB's holding him back and yet he made it look more like he had one outlier good year.

I agree with this 100%.  First it was reported we could've had the 16th pick if we threw in our 2nd, which we used for Hurts.  but even without that when they eagles were up Jefferson was the consensus next best WR and there was collective a collective "Huh" when reagor was picked.   From the fans the the draft analysts.  and pure joy and laughter as shown in Minnesota.  They could've traded down and still gotten reagor if that's who they truly wanted.    

[Vman1968]

15 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Actually a lot of fans had given up on Mailata and there were articles speculating he wouldn't make the final roster in 2020. We'll have to wait and see how things unfold in 2021 at LT. I expect there will be a battle there in camp and preseason (if there is one). If both players show well, we could trade 1 to a LT needy team either right before the season or before the deadline during the season. Plenty of people had Reagor going in the 1st round. He wasn't part of the "big 3" so he was part of the group that people felt could be 1st or 2nd round. WR was considered the strength of the 2020 draft, so some of the guys that went in rd 2, could have projected as 1st rd picks in some other years. We did not have a chance for Lamb. Dallas picked before us. The funny thing about that is that nobody here complained after the draft that we didn't get Jefferson. People only complained that we didn't trade up to get Lamb before Dallas picked. Now everybody here is acting like they were for picking Jefferson the whole time. As for Reagor, I'm just seeing typical negadelphian pessimism around here. You don't know he won't ever be a #1. I actually think picking a WR with the #6 pick this year would be unwise. We have a lot of young WRs we invested in and have more glaring needs that we can address. Finally, I'm not worried about the cap or last year's sorry record. 

No one had any expectations on Mailata.   We didnt give up but the team itself didnt play him and wasnt sharing any info on progress.   Was picking another LT (and trading up) the next year the right move?   No one complained at the time because that signaled that Mailata didn't work out.   Yet he played and played well last year.   Was the team that clueless in terms of his progress?   

Fact of the matter it appears that Howie has Zero draft strategy or even how to go about building a team.   

[PoconoDon]

1 hour ago, Vman1968 said:

No one had any expectations on Mailata.   We didnt give up but the team itself didnt play him and wasnt sharing any info on progress.   Was picking another LT (and trading up) the next year the right move?   No one complained at the time because that signaled that Mailata didn't work out.   Yet he played and played well last year.   Was the team that clueless in terms of his progress?   

Fact of the matter it appears that Howie has Zero draft strategy or even how to go about building a team.   

That's a hard question to answer. The O-line coach would've known. I just believe Howie Roseman is in love with the PAC-12 and thinks that conference is great when in fact it is the least physical and aggressive conference in football. A whole bunch of ballerinas and very, very few bulldogs. Dillard is a prime example. We'll see about Sewell. The skill positions once in a while offer a guy who is tough like Ertz. The kind who can take it, but don't dish it out. Otherwise it's a finesse conference filled with finesse players and I'd rather the Eagles steer clear. JMO.

[NOTW]

The silver lining here is that if Wentz plays well in Indy, and Hurts isn't the answer here it could mean Howie's job.  

[Vman1968]

19 minutes ago, NOTW said:

The silver lining here is that if Wentz plays well in Indy, and Hurts isn't the answer here it could mean Howie's job.  

I'll repeat what i said elsewhere.   Where do you see Roseman being held accountable for anything?   and you see perhaps Wentz and Colts finishing first, eagles and Hurts finishing last in a bad division and think that lurie will start to hold Roseman accountable?   I mean we are 50 mill over the cap, just took the largest Dead Cap hit in league history and banking on a QB that most people feel cant throw.  We've also had 4 really horrendous drafts in a row and lurie has never said anything about Howie having to do better or being accountable.   We'll fire coaches, unload talented players and whatever else to deflect blame from this guy.   The eagles could go 1-15 next year and hurts could look worse than Nate Sudfeld and the colts could win the super bowl and Roseman isn't going anywhere.  

[NOTW]

4 minutes ago, Vman1968 said:

I'll repeat what i said elsewhere.   Where do you see Roseman being held accountable for anything?   and you see perhaps Wentz and Colts finishing first, eagles and Hurts finishing last in a bad division and think that lurie will start to hold Roseman accountable?   I mean we are 50 mill over the cap, just took the largest Dead Cap hit in league history and banking on a QB that most people feel cant throw.  We've also had 4 really horrendous drafts in a row and lurie has never said anything about Howie having to do better or being accountable.   We'll fire coaches, unload talented players and whatever else to deflect blame from this guy.   The eagles could go 1-15 next year and hurts could look worse than Nate Sudfeld and the colts could win the super bowl and Roseman isn't going anywhere.  

Lurie once demoted Howie to give Chip power.

Lurie moved on from long-time friend Banner.

Lurie fired the winningest coach in Eagles history in Reid.  

Howie has escaped so far, but it can't last forever.  If he screws up the draft and this rebuild, if enough coaches don't want to work with him, Lurie will have to eventually see that.

[Vman1968]

1 minute ago, NOTW said:

Lurie once demoted Howie to give Chip power.

 - Per lurie this was intended to for Chip to hang himslef (which he did) and give the job back to Roseman (The man he loves)

Lurie moved on from long-time friend Banner.

 - Banner was also moved to make room for Roseman.  and their were cracks in the relationship prior to that change.  Also Roseman was gaining influence in Lurie.  Who is doing that today.  Roseman is a master manipulator and i believe he controlled that process.

Lurie fired the winningest coach in Eagles history in Reid.  

 - I think everyone knew it was time for Reid to go.   He was making stupid decisions and clearly needed to move on.  (Juan Castillo as DC?  Thats enough to get you fired by itself)

Howie has escaped so far, but it can't last forever.  If he screws up the draft and this rebuild, if enough coaches don't want to work with him, Lurie will have to eventually see that.

- I will believe it when I see it or I see someone else that Lurie is positioning.   At the end of the season Lurie had every opportunity to say every aspect of football operations is accountable and will be evaluated going forward.   He didn't.   Believe me I want him to, but this offseason is pivotal since we are officially in rebuild and you don't do that with someone you don't have high regard for.   

 

[PoconoDon]

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

The silver lining here is that if Wentz plays well in Indy, and Hurts isn't the answer here it could mean Howie's job.  

Only in a dream my friend. Howie is dug in deeper than an Alabama tick.

[NOTW]

26 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

Only in a dream my friend. Howie is dug in deeper than an Alabama tick.

Ticks can be plucked out 

[PoconoDon]

Just now, NOTW said:

Ticks can be plucked out 

It takes a lot of work and he's in there even deeper than any tick ever was. Lurie needs to wake up and dump that clown, but all he seems to do is sing his praises, which is beyond ridiculous.

The Grima Wormtongue meme is spot on but the great difference is we have no Gandalf to snap Lurie out of his delusional haze.

[NYEagle]

Howie Roseman = Jerry Heller

[NOTW]

 

 

[Sack that QB]

Andy Reid is under .500 with Howie Roseman as his GM.

Has close to a .700 winning % with every other GM.

[Macho Grande]

Firing Tom Gamble years ago was the last straw for me.  Myself and several others have argued in years past that Howie needed to go, only to be dogpiled into silence.  Hopefully the days of TATErs running to cape for Howie are finally over after this debacle.

[EazyEaglez]

14 minutes ago, Macho Grande said:

Firing Tom Gamble years ago was the last straw for me.  Myself and several others have argued in years past that Howie needed to go, only to be dogpiled into silence.  Hopefully the days of TATErs running to cape for Howie are finally over after this debacle.

Since Lurie has been here you would be surprised how many really good football minds have come and gone through the Eagles organization, but somehow Howie is still here. He’s outlasted all of them. It’s just mind boggling how he not only stays, but keeps getting more power.

[NYEagle]

37 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Since Lurie has been here you would be surprised how many really good football minds have come and gone through the Eagles organization, but somehow Howie is still here. He’s outlasted all of them. It’s just mind boggling how he not only stays, but keeps getting more power.

Howie has the pics that Lurie doesn't want seen.....#jobsecurityforlife