Time to put Howie back in the basement? - Discuss Howie Roseman here

[EazyEaglez]

14 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Well different coaches, maybe they see something there more. I still think Reagor will turn out good. Most people were crying over Lamb not Jefferson but that is what fans do pretend they wanted someone else after the fact. 

It doesn’t matter who fans want. What matters is Howie screwed up. 

[Bwestbrook36]

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

It doesn’t matter who fans want. What matters is Howie screwed up. 

Well yeah but that also doesn't matter because he isn't going anywhere. 

[EazyEaglez]

36 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Well yeah but that also doesn't matter because he isn't going anywhere. 

Which in its own way is just as much of a problem. GM Chip Kelly got one chance and he blew it. Howie got praised for getting this team the bowl, and as such he deserves the criticism for the team being in the condition that it’s in. I’ll tell you this though. If fans stop going cause Howie’s teams  keep sucking and the yesman coaches keep failing things will change. 

[NOTW]

 

 

[brkmsn]

On 4/1/2021 at 8:07 AM, EazyEaglez said:

It doesn’t matter who fans want. What matters is Howie screwed up. 

1 season does not a career make. 

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

1 season does not a career make. 

Howie has had a career of making bad choices. There’s a reason why he was out in the basement to begin with. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

11 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Howie has had a career of making bad choices. There’s a reason why he was out in the basement to begin with. 

But unfortunately he's very very good at self preservation! And that's what he's managed to do again this year. 

[EazyEaglez]

14 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But unfortunately he's very very good at self preservation! And that's what he's managed to do again this year. 

It’s unprecedented that a GM could survive four coaching changes. Heck the Steelers have only had three coaches in the past 50 plus years. How anyone can blame all these fired coaches by the Eagles for their failings and act as if the GM had no part to play in it is beyond me. I guess people like that think drafting players like JJAW was a good thing. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

25 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

It’s unprecedented that a GM could survive four coaching changes. Heck the Steelers have only had three coaches in the past 50 plus years. How anyone can blame all these fired coaches by the Eagles for their failings and act as if the GM had no part to play in it is beyond me. I guess people like that think drafting players like JJAW was a good thing. 

Absolutely! Howie survives because he manages to lay the blame on others and manages to make moves that somehow keep him in a job.

I mean take this year for example. We don't know what is going to happen in the draft but there is a chance that Surtain falls to them at #12 right? And there's a good chance that as a result they pick him. Now he is perhaps the best corner in the draft and so on paper that is a move that makes sense. But the scouting reports say that he's going to be a press man corner. Now we don't know what scheme Gannon is going to run but we believe there will be a lot of zone. So does Surtain make sense? There's a disconnect between the FO and the coaching staff or at least there has been in the past.

Reagor isn't a bad player but Doug didn't utilise him properly. Now is that Doug or is that Reagor just wasn't actually a fit for the scheme? He had the athletic profile that they were after but was he a fit for the scheme? 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

It’s unprecedented that a GM could survive four coaching changes. Heck the Steelers have only had three coaches in the past 50 plus years. How anyone can blame all these fired coaches by the Eagles for their failings and act as if the GM had no part to play in it is beyond me. I guess people like that think drafting players like JJAW was a good thing. 

And he has already set up the Excuse Train to survive next time.

"We took a chance on an inexperienced staff thinking we would all grow together after Doug decided to leave" or "how could we ever prepare for what happened with Carson as he was the cornerstone of our next decade". 

Count on it.  He always has an excuse.

[EazyEaglez]

36 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

And he has already set up the Excuse Train to survive next time.

"We took a chance on an inexperienced staff thinking we would all grow together after Doug decided to leave" or "how could we ever prepare for what happened with Carson as he was the cornerstone of our next decade". 

Count on it.  He always has an excuse.

It doesn’t help the owner also gives him excuses. They actually give Howie credit for players other teams drafted. Just cause you wanted Russell Wilson too doesn’t mean you should get credit for him. Stop letting other teams in front of you take players you covet and leave you drafting stiffs like Marcus Smith. 

[brkmsn]

All you guys do is bring conjecture into your arguments about how Howie "survives." How do we know he's not doing exactly what Lurie tells him to do. You won't hesitate to throw around the "puppet" label at our coaches, but it doesn't occur to you that somebody may be pulling his strings? Honestly, when you add it all up, it would sure make sense. 

[EagleJoe8]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

All you guys do is bring conjecture into your arguments about how Howie "survives." How do we know he's not doing exactly what Lurie tells him to do. You won't hesitate to throw around the "puppet" label at our coaches, but it doesn't occur to you that somebody may be pulling his strings? Honestly, when you add it all up, it would sure make sense. 

So then the argument goes from "We need a NEW GM”, to "We need A GM”. 
 

Cool. Glad we cleared that up. 

[EaglesfanfromND]

2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

It doesn’t help the owner also gives him excuses. They actually give Howie credit for players other teams drafted. Just cause you wanted Russell Wilson too doesn’t mean you should get credit for him. Stop letting other teams in front of you take players you covet and leave you drafting stiffs like Marcus Smith. 

Yeah well they really wanted Jefferson last year but.........oh wait no it was Lamb......yeah that's who they really wanted but had to scramble because he was taken about 30 minutes earlier.........yeah that's it.

[time2rock]

Can Roseman survive another bad draft?

 

When "Fire Howie” is trending on Twitter because bored Phillies fans are chanting it during a loss to the Giants, you really wonder how long this can go on.

GM for life? Maybe not.

Let’s think about this.

Roseman has been Eagles general manager for 11 of the last 12 years and while there’s a lot of blame to go around, he is responsible to a great extent for the Eagles’ gradual decline from Super Bowl champs to playoff team to 4-win embarrassment.

Now, he was also responsible to a great extent for that Super Bowl championship, and it’s important to keep that in mind. Just three years ago he was named NFL Executive of the Year. And the Eagles have reached the postseason in five of his first 10 seasons as GM. Take out the 7-9 record in 2015, when Chip Kelly served as his own GM, and the Eagles are 84-75-1 with Howie as GM, and that .528 winning percentage is 9th-best in the NFL. The Packers and Saints are the only NFC teams to reach the playoffs more during this past decade.

That said, it is fair to wonder how long this power structure will remain considering not only Roseman’s recent draft record – abysmal since his power was restored in 2016 – but just the general state of the franchise.

There isn’t a single proven elite player under 30 on the roster – Miles Sanders and Dallas Goedert are very good but not yet elite – and the Eagles haven’t drafted a Pro Bowl player outside the first round since Jason Kelce in 2011. A decade ago.

I know what you’re thinking.

Howie is GM for life.

He’s survived three coaching changes, and it can be unthinkable to imagine Jeff Lurie making a change.

Two things come to mind.

Joe Banner and Andy Reid.

Lurie and Banner grew up together. They were childhood friends. Lurie hired Banner literally within 12 hours after buying the Eagles, and Banner was pivotal in helping build a franchise that from 2000 through 2010 had the 4th-best record in the NFL and reached the playoffs 9 of 11 years. Banner helped build a culture in the NovaCare Complex that made long-term success possible.

And Reid was "coach for life,” as Lurie called him one summer morning at Lehigh. Big Red just kept piling up the wins and playoff appearances and even without a Super Bowl championship it seemed he would coach here as long as he wanted.

Things change.

Lurie began giving Roseman more responsibility and that meant less for Banner, and he left the organization soon after. And after the disastrous 2012 season Lurie fired his "coach for life.”

Lurie has his quirks, but he is a smart guy and for the most part he’s been a very good owner for over a quarter of a century.

He knows. He might act like he doesn’t, but he knows exactly what Roseman’s strengths and weaknesses are, and he may defend every move, but I just don’t believe he’s so naïve that if things don’t get better he won’t eventually make a change.

Banner wasn’t president for life, Reid wasn’t coach for life and Roseman isn’t GM for life.

It’s important to look at this from Lurie’s perspective. Roseman brought a Lombardi Trophy to the NovaCare Complex, he built the Super Bowl roster and he’s stood loyally by Lurie’s side in some capacity for two mostly successful decades.

It’s also important to look at this from Roseman’s perspective. He’s Public Enemy No. 1 in the city he brought a Super Bowl championship, and it’s fair to wonder how much vitriol anybody can take in his position. Not that it’s unfair. It comes with the job. But Roseman is a human being, and it can’t be much fun settling down with the family after dinner to watch the Phillies and hearing fans chanting for you to be fired. Maybe at some point he’ll want a change.

For me, it boils down to one thing.

Talent.

This team doesn’t have much.

Roseman hasn’t drafted a defensive Pro Bowler since 2012 and he’s never drafted one outside the first round. The only Pro Bowler he’s drafted since being restored to power is Carson Wentz, and we all saw how that turned out. The Kelce-Cox-Graham-Ertz-Johnson nucleus is on its last legs.

Can Roseman survive another bad draft? Maybe. And you never know until a couple years later when a bad draft really is one.

But if things don’t get better, I could see Lurie looking at that 2022 draft with a likely three 1st-round picks and thinking maybe it’s time to give someone else a crack at this. And it’s not like Lurie is going to make a change because of Phillies fans chanting "Fire Howie,” but he is acutely aware of how the franchise is perceived. And right now it’s not perceived in a positive light.

It’s hard to imagine. But as we saw from Banner and Reid, nothing lasts forever. And there’s no more powerful motivation for change than a football team that keeps losing.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/nfl-draft-2021-can-eagles-gm-howie-roseman-survive-another-bad-draft

[mjkvol]

In a word, yes.

Funny thing is, Roseman is today what he always was, and aside from the perfect storm of 2017, which is looking more and more as a fluke of sorts (but what a glorious fluke), his M.O. has always been mediocre to bad drafts and cheap signings to try to fill in the holes created by the bad drafting.         

The last three years are essentially that M.O. catching up with him as instead of retooling the SB roster and selling high on players who had maxed out in 2017, he allowed it to age while failing to add any young impact talent.            Some of us never bought in to the "executive of the year" stuff, and to us this was completely predictable.

The reason I think he's going nowhere is that the Lurie of the first couple of decades was a hands off owner who hired people he trusted and allowed them to do their jobs, sometimes beyond their expiration point.         Today's "emotional intelligent" Lurie of "collaborative" decision making is a totally different animal, and Roseman seems to have used that to shift blame elsewhere, otherwise why would Lurie completely clean house while leaving the architect of this mess in place?   

[Ipiggles]

Lurie is loyal to a fault. Reid lasted too long, Howie has lasted too long. 

Sure things will change eventually, but we suffer far too long waiting for things to change for the better. 

[Perforator]

One can only hope...

 

[Grump99]

Call me crazy, but I actually think that Howie will draft well this year.  I believe he will rise to the occasion and get the roster moving in the right direction. 

Unfortunately,  it will take at least a couple of quality drafts until we become a legitimate contender again.

[weko]

The analytical approach to drafting is a disaster.  Lurie loves analytics and as we have been recently told, also likes making draft picks, ie Hurts, Whiteside and perhaps others.  Howie's allegience is to the owner, not the team or city, players, coaches or fans.  He'll gladly submit a pick knowing the player will bust if daddy Jeffrey makes it and is resolute in the choice.  He's hitched his career wagon to the owner and that's where his complete loyalties lie.  That's a recipe for disaster.  Analytically drafting will continue to fail and as out best older players retire, there won't be any talent left if they continue their impotent drafting.  This team will have to bottom out before it gets better.  That will require Lurie to change.  We're not there yet.  It's gonna take a bunch of 4-13, 5-12 seasons with the easy last place schedule. The only thing that could speed up the process is for a PR conscious limo liberal like Lurie to be the butt of mockery nationally.  That has already started.  It's a big draft for these two.  Blow another one on injured, small framed, slow, talentless players from poor conferences and the buffoon music will get louder.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

The simple answer is no. He shouldn't survive another draft. But he shouldn't still be in a job now. He will survive another bad draft because he's building for the future and he's acquiring picks to do so. He's safe for another 2 years and then he'll form another plan beyond that. 

[EazyEaglez]

23 hours ago, Ipiggles said:

Lurie is loyal to a fault. Reid lasted too long, Howie has lasted too long. 

Sure things will change eventually, but we suffer far too long waiting for things to change for the better. 

I don’t know if that’s completely true. He fired Kelly and Pederson after one losing season. What I think is really happening here is Jeff wants people around him that when he adds his input do not scoff at him or downplay his involvement. Jeff is very much a part of the football operations. What makes Howie such an asset to him is Howie allows him to do it. Howie rose to power by being a guy who knows how to make the boss feel good. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

On 4/24/2021 at 1:12 PM, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t know if that’s completely true. He fired Kelly and Pederson after one losing season. What I think is really happening here is Jeff wants people around him that when he adds his input do not scoff at him or downplay his involvement. Jeff is very much a part of the football operations. What makes Howie such an asset to him is Howie allows him to do it. Howie rose to power by being a guy who knows how to make the boss feel good. 

Lurie is loyal until he's not. He'll stick by Howie until he decides its time to move on. 

Yes that's of course a very obvious statement but it's true. He's loyal to his guys until he reaches the point where he doesn't believe they are the right man for the job. 

[wrestlevessel]

It has gotten so bad that the NY Media is calling us a mess of an organization and Sirani not knowing what is doing. Essentially they are calling the Eagles a dumpster fire and the new Browns. What a sad time to be a fan.

[EazyEaglez]

8 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Lurie is loyal until he's not. He'll stick by Howie until he decides its time to move on. 

Yes that's of course a very obvious statement but it's true. He's loyal to his guys until he reaches the point where he doesn't believe they are the right man for the job. 

I agree, and he was the same way with Joe Banner too. Ironically people wondered why Joe got to stay as long as he did too. Joe wanted more power in the organization though and ultimately that ruined their relationship it seems. Howie certainly has a lot of ambition, but he seems to know how when not to over step, but I wonder how far this all can go? How far do the Eagles have to fall before Jeff dumps Howie and willingly makes changes in his own meddling?