1 hour ago, HazletonEagle said:

I like how no one can agree on what good process even is. They just "know" that the Eagles process is wrong. 

The aggregate of good process is good results.  Because if the process is good, the law of averages works in your favor to increase the probability of success.  When your process is bad, the law of averages increase the probability of ending up where the Eagles are.

 

They've had bad process, and the proof is that people were saying they were making stupid moves at the time and predicted that the team would regress as a result.  And here we are.

Bad trades - check.

Bad draft picks - check

Bad free agent signings - check

Bad contracts - check

 

 

Where exactly is the good process over the last 3 years? 

1 hour ago, Wentz_Era said:

 

This is logical in a vacuum only.  The reality and totality of circumstances is...the QB position is the most important position on a football team.  The demand for QB's this draft vastly exceeds the supply.  The Eagles originally held a pick where the probability of one of the top QB's being there was high.  They traded back to 12, which drops that probability quite a bit (probably to 0). 

Furthermore, look at the state of the team and the roster.  If the end goal is getting a potential franchise QB the move to 12 is equivalent to being homeless and using whatever you've collected that day at a high stakes poker game hoping to get off the streets.  Let's not spin this into Elon Musk investing into Doge Coin or them playing 3D chess while the rest of the league is playing checkers.  This team simply does not have the resources to bet like that unless Howie is truly untouchable and Lurie is completely senile.

If somehow this is the motive behind the trade and the ultimate end goal, the league should just force Lurie to sell the team.

 

I don’t think it’s complicated at all.
 

-Howie saw an opportunity to get a first round pick next year. 

- There wasn’t a sure fire player they loved at 6 that they definitely felt like wouldn’t be there at 12 

- They feel as though they’ll be able to get a real good player at 12, close to that of the one they would have chosen at 6

- They may love a QB or two but neither was available or worth moving up for 

- If a QB does fall to 12 or they have to do a slight trade up for, fine. They still have that extra 1st rounder 

To me, the move makes all the sense in the world. Now, when Howie takes a player with a low ceiling, that’s when I’ll lose my $h!t 

 

3 minutes ago, DumbleBear said:

There's not two different agendas in the building. It's simple "Physics".

You can't do both things simultaneously. 

Win and keep the fans happy "week in week out" . So just win anyway until Giorgio Tsoukalos figures out a way to build the Bus Stop bus that multi dimensional transport device. 

I missed you Shocker 

Howie's ability to move around in the draft and play the odds has never been an issue. The issue is his shiddy draft choices. 
 

Getting an extra 1st rounder next year won’t make a difference if he continues to draft low ceiling players. Same as if he just stayed put at 6. 

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The aggregate of good process is good results.  Because if the process is good, the law of averages works in your favor to increase the probability of success.  When your process is bad, the law of averages increase the probability of ending up where the Eagles are.

 

They've had bad process, and the proof is that people were saying they were making stupid moves at the time and predicted that the team would regress as a result.  And here we are.

Bad trades - check.

Bad draft picks - check

Bad free agent signings - check

Bad contracts - check

 

 

Where exactly is the good process over the last 3 years? 

Our "process” got us surprise picks of Reagor, Hurts and Taylor. Hurts was taken over higher ranked players on their board, and his selection came without thought of how it would affect our franchise QB. JJAW was taken over a higher ranked WR after stupidly waiting until on the clock to debate the merits of the players instead of sticking to the board. Our owner supposedly broke the tie. It got us trading up for Dillard when we admittedly hadn’t put enough work into him predraft because we thought he’d be long gone. The process got us half-arsing the roster with some half-arsed attempt at competing while adding a third high-priced DT while neglecting a veteran receiver. 

This team’s process led to a lack of cohesion and vision. That should be obvious to all. 

14 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I agree... to an extent.  I would be very disappointed (and was) if the team wins because the rookie QB running the ball is a major part of the game plan, because that is all about the short term, and not at all about long term sustainability.

 

I've said it before, and I will continue to say it.  When the QB has more rushes than completions, that's a MASSIVE red flag to any type of long term sustainability.    In that NO game, Hurts had 17 completions and 18 carries.  167 yards passing, 106 yards rushing.   That is NOT sustainable.   And frankly, they would have had no shot if NO didn't have to prove that Taysom Hill was actually a QB.   If they played Winston, I have no doubt, the Eagles lose that game.

Sure, but it wasn't like Doug was Mr. "Run the Ball" all the time so it was sustainable. Just asinine to critique him on that win and smells of a "big wig" always trying to prove how much smarter he is than you.

9 hours ago, TEW said:

Setting aside the inflammatory word "chastise," bad decisions that end in good results are still bad decisions. You can minimize your chances at winning and still win.

Bad sequences of decisions should be scrutinized even if they happen to end with positive results.

This guy is also a micro manager. Running the ball more and winning a game is not a bad decision. 

6 hours ago, austinfan said:

You can only control process, results tend to be stochastic. The ball bounces funny.

Give me a coaching staff that teaches solid fundamentals, proper technique, demands players work hard to improve strength and conditioning, and focuses on field awareness.

Everyone in the stadium knew what Lombardi was going to run, and they couldn't stop it b/c his players executed his scheme perfectly.

The best teams don't have the best players, they have the players who play the best.

More weak minded externalities. These are not random outcomes. They are an exercise in who is better as making risk/benefit assessments of incomplete data sets. There is also the balance of roster construction wrt scheme. All positions are not equal. The draft is not a lotto ticket.its not simple math. Its not even complex math. There is no one right way.

and control is an illusion for process because humans are irrational and emotional, especially little ego monster weasels like Howie. Who sets the process? The one with the power...human nature works against good process. 

 

31 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Lurie made a point to say that we are building to support Hurts.  We aren’t taking a QB in the 1st this year.  I think they are loading up for one in 2022.  It’ll be an O lineman or a Corner.  You can bank on it.  

I sure hope so.  

6 hours ago, TEW said:

He's absolutely right on this. It's math. You can make sub optimal decisions that result in good outcomes. Every person who has ever won the lottery has experienced this.

 

Its not math. Too many unknown variables in that equation. 
 

plus if you do manage to find some marginal advantage it will be fleeting as everyone else will quickly copy it, erasing the value in it

Man I can't wait until the draft....so I can be deeply disappointed. You guys year after year talk about these awesome prospects we could draft and year after year the Eagles never do (it seems). So if you want to know who they will take just take all the players you guys have been touting and cross them off the list and go 50 players deeper down the rankings. That's our guy.

7 hours ago, austinfan said:

If they take Lance at #12, it simply means they like his upside but recognize he was a high risk choice and hedged their bets by getting a 2022 1st rd pick.

Value depends on both upside and risk, and you balance the two.

By that metric our value has been terrible

you can see that right?

Lurie and Howie caught the fatal conceit. They failed to manage success.

The reason process fails is the human elements. They failed to see the obvious pitfalls of drafting Hurts and destroyed the team. It gets you wasted picks like Taylor because you foolishly over weight the analytics. It ruined their relationship with Doug. 
 

if you allegedly value coaching you cant be undermining them.

 

 

The NFL Draft is 2 weeks from tonight
 

cant get here soon enough 

1 minute ago, Original Sin said:

The NFL Draft is 2 weeks from tonight
 

cant get here soon enough 

agree

10 minutes ago, greend said:

agree

Yup

first four picks will be some combo of db/wr/ol/lb in my prediction

potentially two dbs depending on how the lb go off the board

21 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

The NFL Draft is 2 weeks from tonight
 

cant get here soon enough 

 

20 minutes ago, greend said:

agree

 

7 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Yup

first four picks will be some combo of db/wr/ol/lb in my prediction

potentially two dbs depending on how the lb go off the board

Im predicting more of the same -         "WTH are they doing???"  picks. nothing has changed in the front office,  so I'm not crazy enough to think that the results will change.

 

LOL

 

 

Newsome cb

Marshall wo

Turner de

Werner lb

Gillespie S

Marshall dt 

 

58 minutes ago, thedanone82 said:

Man I can't wait until the draft....so I can be deeply disappointed. You guys year after year talk about these awesome prospects we could draft and year after year the Eagles never do (it seems). So if you want to know who they will take just take all the players you guys have been touting and cross them off the list and go 50 players deeper down the rankings. That's our guy.

The more prospects we discuss, the less we get locked in to one, thus lowering disappointment! ha

Who am I kidding, you're exactly right.  

7 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

Im predicting more of the same -         "WTH are they doing???"  picks. nothing has changed in the front office,  so I'm not crazy enough to think that the results will change.

 

The more you think about it, the more this is true.  They have 4 picks in the top 100.  Normal teams would say, WOW we can load up on top end talent.

The Eagles will say, WOW, 4 picks in the top 100 instead of 3, that means we have an extra pick to gamble with! Now, let's outsmart everyone.

9 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

 

 

Im predicting more of the same -         "WTH are they doing???"  picks. nothing has changed in the front office,  so I'm not crazy enough to think that the results will change.

 

LOL

 

 

This very well could be the case

1 hour ago, thedanone82 said:

Man I can't wait until the draft....so I can be deeply disappointed. You guys year after year talk about these awesome prospects we could draft and year after year the Eagles never do (it seems). So if you want to know who they will take just take all the players you guys have been touting and cross them off the list and go 50 players deeper down the rankings. That's our guy.

Generally tends to feel like this lately 

With 4 picks in the first 100 they can afford to spend one on a future franchise quarterback.

1 minute ago, Perforator said:

With 4 picks in the first 100 they can afford to spend one on a future franchise quarterback.

I disagree, too many other glaring needs , you just spent a 2nd on a QB last year ,see what he can do , before using another premium pick on one

11 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

My random thought of the day. Some players are being put into a difficult and frankly unfair choice between the NFL and NFLPA in regards to OTAs. With the NFLPA telling all players to boycott any onsite activities, what is a player like Hurts supposed to do? He probably knows this is his main shot to be the guy and if he is a hard worker, he probably would and should be getting as much time with the coaching staff to succeed. But he basically has to go with the mob of veterans that don’t feel like doing it or else it looks like he’s not a team leader and turning his back on the association.

For players like Davion Taylor (regardless of draft position), the only way for him to get better over time is in OTAs, etc where he can work face to face with coaches outside of the pressure of TC.  Working out a local high school or doing system installs via  Zoom will do little for him.  Equally, having appropriate team supervision while working is out what any young player should want.  It builds relationships and gets your face seem by the right people.

The NFLPA are trying to do away with the bits they don't like, but as you say, aren't thinking collectively.  Frank,y,  JJ Watt (and the like) are the NFL exception, and not the rule.

7 minutes ago, Perforator said:

With 4 picks in the first 100 they can afford to spend one on a future franchise quarterback.

There has to be a guy worthy of being a franchise quarterback in the top 100 that they can get.

In the top 100 this year they should come away with a starting CB, starting WR, starting/potential starting OL be it G/C and a contributing LB.

The Eagles have that many holes and there is that much talent available if they just follow the board they should make out like champs.  If they try to get cute (they will) we are going to be saying what the F.