3 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

2 years in college. 2 sacks in 2019, 8 sacks in 2020 during a season with a *. Not enough there to get me to buy in the first round, esp top 12. Im not buying it. 

Yup.

If I'm drafting a DT at 12 he better be aaron donald as a pass rusher or be able to play the run.

Baramore can be a good Inside pass rusher when he wants to be but he sucks against the run and at the point.

Hopefully some team will seethe 8 sacks and get a chub and draft him before Howie has a chance to mull it over.

I could get on board with a number of players In this draft but guys like Baramore who are more style than substance with weak motors I'll pass.

 

2 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

Depends if they have truly embraced a rebuild

i am hopeful they have

I really dont think it makes any difference.  They dont draft well, they always try to be smarter than everyone else.  Same people doing the drafting means the same results will happen. 

I know that is a bitter pill to swallow, I am just trying to be realistic. In the past I let my optimism get the best of me, only to be left down and upset. Not this year, I fully expect them to screw this up. I have zero expectations from them for the next few years, draft or otherwise. I expect we will stink for a while. (Hint: till we get new leadership in the FO)

5 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

2 years in college. 2 sacks in 2019, 8 sacks in 2020 during a season with a *. Not enough there to get me to buy in the first round, esp top 12. Im not buying it. 

Maybe the Cowboys will grab him. I could definitely see Howie over drafting a DT.  

15 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Some things I both agree and disagree with here. First off, I think that a QB who is a serious threat to run puts tremendous strain on a defense. I'm not talking about the Baltimore style where running is central and integral to the offense. Rather, I'm talking about a defense that is forced to spy the QB, which distorts everything behind it. Also, there is little that dispirits a defense like playing perfect defense, covering everybody, and the QB gets the first down with his legs. That said, I would keep the read-option in but use it sparingly, just enough to make the defense close on the LOS. Getting back to the Baltimore offense for the moment, I think people tend to dismiss it out of hand. However, it was seventh in scoring, and only five points total behind KC, whom everybody loves offensively. Their problem is, IMHO, that Lamar Jackson is run first and second and passing a distant third. They have situational issues; their WRs are no better than ours, and Jackson has a very limited passing  game. He can flick it but his range is really 0-20 yards.

Second, I think and have said before that people here are underselling Hurts. He's a much better passer than Jackson and, while he doesn't have Wentz's gun he can  make all the throws. It would help if Doug hadn't called all those deep throws with a swiss cheese OL and crappy receivers. I recall a TD throw to Alshon where Hurts got crushed but stood in and threw a seed to Alshon in the front corner of the end zone. Thirty yards in the air on a rope. Give Hurts a legit offense and some OL and WRs and I expect his completion percentage to be well into the 60s, as it was at Oklahoma, where it was a tick under 70%. One thing that was really noticeable to me and that none of his detractors have commented on - well you have and here I disagree strongly - is his pocket presence, There he was light years better than Wentz. Carson was always backing out of the pocket; Hurts slides and moves up. Going backwards makes the OT's job impossible, since he can't ride the DE around the back of the pocket; Carson backed into trouble time and again. It was a big part of his regression. Hurts slides and moves up. Yes, he may take off too soon and his reads need much improvement but the instinct and feel are there. And I don't want to hear about his completion percentage. How good was Mahomes' in the SB? Lousy, because he was running for his life. Are we going to say Mahomes stinks? I hope not, but in similar circumstance he was no better than Hurts and he had infinitely better receivers.

Feel free to mock me, but I stand by this.

I don't think we are as far apart as you might think.  The issue I had with the NO gameplan was that the QB running was central to that particular game plan.

I also believe that Hurts is a better passer than Jackson.   But, I will take his completion pct. from OU with a grain of salt, there's no defense in the Big12.  So, I'm sure many times he was throwing to a wide open CeeDee Lamb, etc.    As for the Baltimore offensive numbers over the season... yes, they put up good aggregate numbers.  But, those numbers drop off dramatically in the playoffs.  Playoffs since the Lamar Jackson experiment began in Baltimore: 2018: 17  2019: 12  2020:  20, 3   For comparison purposes: their avg PPG in those years:  2018: 24.3ppg (25.1 in games Jackson started)  2019: 33.2 ppg   2020:   29.3ppg.    So, the results are that while they put up nice numbers in the regular season... their offense stagnates in the playoffs.  Sort of what we saw with Randall Cunningham in his time with the Eagles in the late 80's.  They struggled mightily in the playoffs, because of the unpredictability of the big play with his legs and being forced to rely on his arm and the designed passing game wasn't how they were built to win.

 

Regarding Hurts' pocket presence, he was fresh to the game, and had the mobility to get out of trouble, and quickly.   I thought that he was too willing to pull the ball and run in situations that he could have merely slid in the pocket rather than escaped (most young QBs do... so its not a major criticism, but something he needs to work on with the coaches and reps).   I'm not going to compare him to Wentz.  Wentz was shell shocked last season by the time he came out.  But, if we go back to Wentz' other years, he wasn't just fading back, but stepping up or sliding as well.   Wentz was the sacrificial lamb to the horrific weapons and the carousel along the OL as different players shuffled in to different positions constantly.   And by the time Hurts came in, the OL was (slightly) more settled and some of the first time players actually had some game experience under their belt and were improving... slightly.  It wasn't a good OL by the end of the season by any stretch, but it was far better and more settled by then than it was as they were shuttling in the likes of Brett Toth for a stint at RT.  

 

The reality is that having Hurts running as a design (and I am not talking about read options, but things like the QB Power, or the QB sweep that we saw in that NO game) is where I say that they were doing more harm than good to his progression at QB.   There's no reason to get your QB hit as much as he was in the NO game outside the pocket.   When running from the pocket, there's usually more space and the QB has the option to get out of bounds, or get down before contact comes.   When the QB is running the ball on a designed QB power, or QB sweep, the defenders are much closer to the LOS and there are more of them around.

 

I don't believe that Hurts is the long term solution at QB.  I hope I am wrong, or else its just another wasted draft pick under Howie.  He'll get to prove whether he is or isn't more this year, and I hope this new coaching staff is smart enough to work on his PASSING and not rely on his RUNNING.   Time will tell.

7 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Well ya know before Hitler killed all those jews he was just a failed artist😉

Stalin didn't fail at the bank robbery and he was pretty well always a revolutionary after dropping out of seminary.  

36 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

So if I win the lottery I should roll all my winnings into more lottery tickets because of the non English you spouted here?  

Exactly the opposite. Lotto tickets have a negative EV. If you have to play the lottery, you don’t put all your money into lotto tickets. Just like even though drafting a QB has a low EV, you have to do it, so you don’t put all your draft picks into a QB. You hedge.

2 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

I really dont think it makes any difference.  They dont draft well, they always try to be smarter than everyone else.  Same people doing the drafting means the same results will happen. 

I know that is a bitter pill to swallow, I am just trying to be realistic. In the past I let my optimism get the best of me, only to be left down and upset. Not this year, I fully expect them to screw this up. I have zero expectations from them for the next few years, draft or otherwise. I expect we will stink for a while. (Hint: till we get new leadership in the FO)

If swallowing bitter pills impacted my being a fan of the team, then I think I would be a Bucs fan at this point. 

34 minutes ago, RLC said:

If your process is good, then you should double-down. Whether the process is good is up for debate.

I would think its fairly obvious the Eagles process has been quite bad for years now

55 minutes ago, RLC said:

The whole point of following the right process is that you will win in the long-term, even if you suffer losses in the short-term.

The problem is that people are impatient and want to get off when they suffer losses and pivot.

The problem is that the EAGLES are impatient and have pivoted constantly.   
"We need big receivers"...  enter Jeffery, Goedert and JJAW.

"No, now we need speed receivers".... enter Reagor, Hightower, Watkins and Goodwin.

 

That's good process?  🤔

6 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup.

If I'm drafting a DT at 12 he better be aaron donald as a pass rusher or be able to play the run.

Baramore can be a good Inside pass rusher when he wants to be but he sucks against the run and at the point.

Hopefully some team will seethe 8 sacks and get a chub and draft him before Howie has a chance to mull it over.

I could get on board with a number of players In this draft but guys like Baramore who are more style than substance with weak motors I'll pass.

 

Like him but hard pass

there are quality DTs on day three and we have our two starters

Just now, Ipiggles said:

I really dont think it makes any difference.  They dont draft well, they always try to be smarter than everyone else.  Same people doing the drafting means the same results will happen. 

I know that is a bitter pill to swallow, I am just trying to be realistic. In the past I let my optimism get the best of me, only to be left down and upset. Not this year, I fully expect them to screw this up. I have zero expectations from them for the next few years, draft or otherwise. I expect we will stink for a while. (Hint: till we get new leadership in the FO)

This is where I am.  Doesn't matter if it's a rebuild, come off the SB or have the 1st pick in the draft.  The same buffoons are making the picks.  We should be really excited as fans having all of these draft picks but when you realize how much influence Lurie has in the war room and Howie is still here it deflates any excitement whatsoever. 

Get used to the name Quinn Meinerz.  He's a guard from Wisconsin-Whitewater.  He impressed at the Senior Bowl and had a good pro day.  I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see the Eagles trade down again in Round 1 and take him.  

There are going to be so many obvious choices to be made that the Eagles go the other direction.  They can't help themselves.  I'm preparing myself for the ultimate letdown draft and a lot of head scratching moves. 

4 minutes ago, TEW said:

Exactly the opposite. Lotto tickets have a negative EV. If you have to play the lottery, you don’t put all your money into lotto tickets. Just like even though drafting a QB has a low EV, you have to do it, so you don’t put all your draft picks into a QB. You hedge.

If your evaluation process is sound you dont hedge

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The problem is that the EAGLES are impatient and have pivoted constantly.   
"We need big receivers"...  enter Jeffery, Goedert and JJAW.

"No, now we need speed receivers".... enter Reagor, Hightower, Watkins and Goodwin.

That's good process?  🤔

So, our process is bad.

Still seeing rumors linking the Eagles to Deshaun Watson. 

Salary cap is a huge question mark there, and I admit that I don't think the numbers would work.  Ignoring salary cap issues, would you support the Eagles trading for Deshaun Watson?  I think for me, it's a huge no.  The guy has lots of legal troubles right now and I think he would just be a huge distraction for this team.  He is a talent and would be an upgrade at QB, but I think he's gotta put his legal troubles behind him before I even consider it.

38 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Smith can be a tackle.  He was 5 star #1 recruit as a tackle in 2017.  He played at guard, went out to tackle then got slid inside again because the Vols recruited Wanya Morris, another 5 star.  If Trey Smith’s blood clot issues are behind him, he would be a steal in the 3rd round.  Much less 4th.  He’s as a good as a young man as you will find.  Plays nasty, finishes his blocks.  Instant team leader and like I said, capable of playing outside.   

Love that pick just a medical question to me. Think he goes rd 2

1 minute ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

Still seeing rumors linking the Eagles to Deshaun Watson. 

Salary cap is a huge question mark there, and I admit that I don't think the numbers would work.  Ignoring salary cap issues, would you support the Eagles trading for Deshaun Watson?  I think for me, it's a huge no.  The guy has lots of legal troubles right now and I think he would just be a huge distraction for this team.  He is a talent and would be an upgrade at QB, but I think he's gotta put his legal troubles behind him before I even consider it.

Nope.  I'm not touching him at all.  

12 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

I really dont think it makes any difference.  They dont draft well, they always try to be smarter than everyone else.  Same people doing the drafting means the same results will happen. 

I know that is a bitter pill to swallow, I am just trying to be realistic. In the past I let my optimism get the best of me, only to be left down and upset. Not this year, I fully expect them to screw this up. I have zero expectations from them for the next few years, draft or otherwise. I expect we will stink for a while. (Hint: till we get new leadership in the FO)

Howie is the anti-Gettleman

Both are bad. Real expertise comes in the blending of the two approaches

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

This is where I am.  Doesn't matter if it's a rebuild, come off the SB or have the 1st pick in the draft.  The same buffoons are making the picks.  We should be really excited as fans having all of these draft picks but when you realize how much influence Lurie has in the war room and Howie is still here it deflates any excitement whatsoever. 

Get used to the name Quinn Meinerz.  He's a guard from Wisconsin-Whitewater.  He impressed at the Senior Bowl and had a good pro day.  I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see the Eagles trade down again in Round 1 and take him.  

There are going to be so many obvious choices to be made that the Eagles go the other direction.  They can't help themselves.  I'm preparing myself for the ultimate letdown draft and a lot of head scratching moves. 

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The problem is that the EAGLES are impatient and have pivoted constantly.   
"We need big receivers"...  enter Jeffery, Goedert and JJAW.

"No, now we need speed receivers".... enter Reagor, Hightower, Watkins and Goodwin.

 

That's good process?  🤔

It sounds like there isn't even a unified process. More like analytic dept vs coach/scouts

4 minutes ago, RLC said:

So, our process is bad.

Yes.  Been saying it for a while now.   Sadly some don't see it, they are buying into Lurie's garbage.

 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I agree.  I'm just bracing myself for a Howie move.  I'd love him in round 3.

5 minutes ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

Still seeing rumors linking the Eagles to Deshaun Watson. 

Salary cap is a huge question mark there, and I admit that I don't think the numbers would work.  Ignoring salary cap issues, would you support the Eagles trading for Deshaun Watson?  I think for me, it's a huge no.  The guy has lots of legal troubles right now and I think he would just be a huge distraction for this team.  He is a talent and would be an upgrade at QB, but I think he's gotta put his legal troubles behind him before I even consider it.

They could make it work. It would just prolong the process of what they are trying to clean up.

5 minutes ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

Still seeing rumors linking the Eagles to Deshaun Watson. 

Salary cap is a huge question mark there, and I admit that I don't think the numbers would work.  Ignoring salary cap issues, would you support the Eagles trading for Deshaun Watson?  I think for me, it's a huge no.  The guy has lots of legal troubles right now and I think he would just be a huge distraction for this team.  He is a talent and would be an upgrade at QB, but I think he's gotta put his legal troubles behind him before I even consider it.

every rumor out there about a player has the Eagles linked to it. FA, Trade etc. Seams reporters just love to put the Eagles name out on everything. 

Watson will never want to be a Eagle with Howie here and his view matters with the no trade clause. So the reporters can write it all they want, dont see it happening. 

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

It sounds like there isn't even a unified process. More like analytic dept vs coach/scouts

ding ding ding... 

Too many cooks ruin the soup.

 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yes.  Been saying it for a while now.   Sadly some don't see it, they are buying into Lurie's garbage.

 

Dont listen to what people say

watch what they do

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

ding ding ding... 

Too many cooks ruin the soup.

 

Culture eats strategy for breakfast