September 7, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, VanHammersly said: Never forget, Kz's the "libertarian" who said that the Republican Party needs to use the power of the government to punish their enemies. Nope, not a libertarian. I'm an adult.
September 7, 20214 yr 3 hours ago, The Norseman said: Because that's all your party ever talks about and they make endless concessions for people based upon their race in order to ensure their vote, that's why. Oh, so random broad observations that have nothing to do with what we're talking about or my opinion on the matter? Cool. Despite your off topic observation, yes, anyone who doesn't get vaxed should feel the consequences. Personally, I think they should be forced to get the shot in their D, but I realize that's too far for most people, so I'll compromise and say they should just be fired and/or lose their insurance.
September 7, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, The Norseman said: So just so I'm clear, you are advocating that the federal government should recommend that people that don't get vaccinated should be terminated by their employer, not be allowed to travel and lost the or health insurance? Aren't you supposed to be some sort of libertarian? Sounds to me like he’s advocating that PRIVATE BUSINESSES mandate that their employees get vaccinated.
September 7, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, Kz! said: Nope, not a libertarian. I'm an adult. The Hanson concert you went to disagrees with the bolded part of your post.
September 7, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, vikas83 said: LEARN. TO. READ. I said employers should mandate the vaccine. Not the Federal Government. EMPLOYERS. Insurance companies should charge the unvaccinated more. INSURANCE COMPANIES. The Federal Government does control the FAA. That's their only role in this. I can't with stupid people today. Nevermind. Carry on -- I'm done. Where did you say employers? I don't see that any of your posts specify employer vs. government mandate. In fact you referred to "rights" which means to me federal mandate. But you do what you always do. Drop in and make an ill advised comment and they insult everyone who disagrees and dip out so you don't have to deal with the fallout.
September 7, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Where did you say employers? I don't see that any of your posts specify employer vs. government mandate. In fact you referred to "rights" which means to me federal mandate. But you do what you always do. Drop in and make an ill advised comment and they insult everyone who disagrees and dip out so you don't have to deal with the fallout. He has been very clear on both counts. Employer and Insurance Company.
September 7, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, downundermike said: The Hanson concert you went to disagrees with the bolded part of your post.
September 7, 20214 yr 11 minutes ago, The Norseman said: So now you want to deny health insurance and fire everyone who doesn't want to get vaccinated? Does that include all the black and brown people in the urban centers? Or do they get a pass because they vote Democrat? I think a fairly large surcharge for unvaxxed people would be a better move. As for firing unvaxxed, that should be up to the employer but I wouldn't be against it.
September 7, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, Kz! said: Limited government until there's a virus with a 99.98% survival rate, then it's "protect me daddy government!" Ummm allowing businesses to fire people who don’t get vaccinated is limited government. Seriously KZAnne how are you not understanding this? It’s the people screaming, "I don’t want to get vaccinated. Protect me daddy government from my company that wants to fire me. Don’t let them do that!” that are calling for big government….
September 7, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: Sounds to me like he’s advocating that PRIVATE BUSINESSES mandate that their employees get vaccinated. That's how I understood it.
September 7, 20214 yr 39 minutes ago, vikas83 said: I've always thought that is how this ends. The problem remains the large group that won't do this, leading to more variants and more hospitalizations. Employers need to start mandating for employees. Insurance companies have to stop paying for the unvaccinated or charge a massive premium. And the Federal Government needs to stop air travel for the unvaccinated. We've reached the limits of positive incentives and education -- we now need real negative consequenes. 1 minute ago, The Norseman said: Where did you say employers? I don't see that any of your posts specify employer vs. government mandate. In fact you referred to "rights" which means to me federal mandate. But you do what you always do. Drop in and make an ill advised comment and they insult everyone who disagrees and dip out so you don't have to deal with the fallout. I put it in bold. Employers is only the 1st word of the sentence. Guess that's hard to miss when you're an illiterate clown. That enough dealing with the fallout, arsehat?
September 7, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, Boogyman said: I think a fairly large surcharge for unvaxxed people would be a better move. As for firing unvaxxed, that should be up to the employer but I wouldn't be against it. Who pays the surcharge for those that are on government assistance?
September 7, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Do you honestly think that would hold up in at US court? Yes, it would. Just like how employers having the right to refuse service to gays was held up by the Supreme Court. Employers have and will always have the right to make their own choices about how they operate their own businesses.
September 7, 20214 yr Just now, mayanh8 said: Yes, it would. Just like how employers having the right to refuse service to gays was held up by the Supreme Court. Employers have and will always have the right to make their own choices about how they operate their own businesses. We talked to our lawyers about it. The legal ground was iffy when it was under an EUA. But with Pfizer fully FDA approved now, the consensus is employer vaccination mandates would hold up to legal challenges.
September 7, 20214 yr 46 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Let's see how the delta targeted booster fares before we start worrying too much about annual boosters and how prevalent the virus will be in 3 years. Even if we have to get a combo flu+covid shot every winter, I'm not gonna be too bothered if that's all it takes to keep me and my family safe. Agree. When it feels like we are starting over in a lot of ways it's hard not to worry though.
September 7, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Who pays the surcharge for those that are on government assistance? The surcharge for what? Are you talking about social programs in general? Or are you talking about unvaxxed people on Medicare/Medicaid?
September 7, 20214 yr Just now, The Norseman said: Who pays the surcharge for those that are on government assistance? I dunno. Someone else that works in the healthcare industry on the financial side of things can work on that part. Just seems surcharges are the easiest way going forward as their is already precedent for then and you are still giving people the choice to get vaxxed and then the surcharge gets dropped or they can just get hammered with costs and continue to do as they please.
September 7, 20214 yr Just now, Diehardfan said: Agree. When it feels like we are starting over in a lot of ways it's hard not to worry though. We have to stop punishing the responsible to protect the irresponsible. Putting mask mandates and other restrictions back in place is senseless -- it removes one of the incentives to get vaccinated. Let employers start mandating. Let businesses start denying admittance/service to the unvaccinated. Let the free market work.
September 7, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: I put it in bold. Employers is only the 1st word of the sentence. Guess that's hard to miss when you're an illiterate clown. That enough dealing with the fallout, arsehat? 42 minutes ago you made that post that had nothing to do with my argument. You didn't specify it in any of your replies to me what the hell you were talking about. And the fact that you still support a federal mandate on private airlines negates your whole argument. Your arguments are as unconstitutional as they are unrealistic.
September 7, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, Boogyman said: I dunno. Someone else that works in the healthcare industry on the financial side of things can work on that part. Just seems surcharges are the easiest way going forward as their is already precedent for then and you are still giving people the choice to get vaxxed and then the surcharge gets dropped or they can just get hammered with costs and continue to do as they please. The easiest solution is for Medicare/Medicaid/Tricare to either deny coverage or to charge a massive fee if you are unvaccinated and end up in the hospital. And before an idiot starts in...you don't have a Constitutional right to Medicare or Medicaid.
September 7, 20214 yr Just now, The Norseman said: 42 minutes ago you made that post that had nothing to do with my argument. You didn't specify it in any of your replies to me what the hell you were talking about. And the fact that you still support a federal mandate on private airlines negates your whole argument. Your arguments are as unconstitutional as they are unrealistic. Nice try, moron. It's not my fault you can't follow a conversation on a message board. Oh, and TSA and the FAA control who can board planes, not private airlines. That's why American Airlines can't decide to let people fly with guns. Would you like to keep posting and confirming your ignorance? Or quit while you are behind?
September 7, 20214 yr 14 minutes ago, Kz! said: If you want to see where the board libertarians stand when push comes to shove, this thread has done an amazing job exposing them. There's not a government mandate that they didn't whole-heartedly support. Forcibly shut down businesses in the early stages? That's fine. Government enforced mask mandates? Great! Stimulus checks printed and shipped to everyone in the country? Sign them up. As long as the government makes them feel a little more protected. Unreal. Don't forget mandating a vaccine for every living human in the country! I got the vaccine, but there is a zero point zero percent chance I put that in my kids unless this virus poses a serious risk to them. Which it doesn't.
September 7, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, vikas83 said: We talked to our lawyers about it. The legal ground was iffy when it was under an EUA. But with Pfizer fully FDA approved now, the consensus is employer vaccination mandates would hold up to legal challenges. I don't understand how it's iffy ground even when it was EUA. Unvaccinated individuals aren't a protected class of citizen. Hell, you're legally allowed to discriminated against smokers in most states. And the justification for it is the same as discriminating against unvaccinated employees.
September 7, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, The Norseman said: Don't forget mandating a vaccine for every living human in the country! I got the vaccine, but there is a zero point zero percent chance I put that in my kids unless this virus poses a serious risk to them. Which it doesn't. I'll take something no one in this thread has supported for $500 Alex... If only you could read, maybe you could follow along. Here's some free advice -- maybe STFU and let the competent adults talk.
September 7, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, mayanh8 said: I don't understand how it's iffy ground even when it was EUA. Unvaccinated individuals aren't a protected class of citizen. Hell, you're legally allowed to discriminated against smokers in most states. And the justification for it would be the same as discriminating against unvaccinated employees. The feedback was basically that there was really no precedent on forcing people to receive an "unapproved" (at least fully) vaccination as a condition of employment. Wasn't a slam dunk you'd lose, but it wasn't a rock solid case to win.
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