Ongoing Eagles News Discussion

[GreenbleedinNC]

1 hour ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Don’t need elite backup TE would it be nice sure but don’t need it(for the record I don’t think any of our backup TEs are going to be elite). Need a guy that can block and still be a threat as a pass catcher.  
 

It is interesting to hear Stoll won’t be elite yet seem to be high on Calc when both guys measurings are almost identical 

They are around the same height, Stoll slightly heavier. Combine testing they tested about the same in every category. Only real difference is Calc seems to have a better feel as a pass catcher but is a terrible blocker while Stoll is a good blocker needs some work as a pass catcher.

 

As I said before do hope both guys develop but I still honestly have more faith in Stoll adding more to his pass catching then Calc becoming an adequate blocker. 

I'm not "high" on calc,thats Ham LOL. Same measurements don't tell you how much effort they put in or how hard they work either. I really don't care about combine scores after 2 years in the pros,You either develop them or you don't. You use the combine scores to get the guys you can develop,after that the "pro" scores are all that matter. We're pretty good at TE devlopment,or we were,but I don't see anyone stepping up here yet. Goedert did so we could lose Ertz and I'm not seeing that guy yet. You can't deny though having a tandem like Gronk/Hernandez didn't make a difference for Brady and the Pats

[joemas6]

Yeah...having that 4th receiving weapon be a top level guy would be great.  

In other news it seems Lane is looking to retire after this latest extension ( 2026)  would be great to get all 4 years out of him.

[joemas6]

Smoke from Canada made its way down last evening... absolutely brutal outside with the air quality. 

[GreenbleedinNC]

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Smoke from Canada made its way down last evening... absolutely brutal outside with the air quality. 

Yeah we are under warnings here to in NC also,although I think it's worse up your way. They may lift them tonight,but my allergies suck,so I am home bound for the moment

[joemas6]

5 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Yeah we are under warnings here to in NC also,although I think it's worse up your way. They may lift them tonight,but my allergies suck,so I am home bound for the moment

Idk...if it's making it's way down there, it will probably get worse before it gets better.    We had all the sports canceled,  Phillies game canceled... my garage smells like we had a bonfire in there.  Been closing the doors really quickly every time going in and out.   Annoying.  Hopefully it passes tomorrow.   Pictures of NYC looked even worse.  

[EaglesTD123]

Satellite image from this morning. 

https://www.space.com/satellite-photos-canada-wildfire-smoke-us-east-coast

[cunninghamtheman]

On 6/6/2023 at 6:11 PM, GreenbleedinNC said:

Stoll is average, but what I like about him is,he takes every play seriously. When he misses a catch you see his reaction. He cares. He tries very hard to improve. Not that the other guys don't but I saw this right away when he first came in,but these are the guys I love to keep around because they keep striving. Stoll will never be elite,he doesn't have the talent,but I love his grind, day to day ethic where he kicks his own butt if he does something wrong. Knowing what you did wrong makes you better. Calc could overtake him as TE2,but that's fine. 3 good guys with 1 elite at TE works for me. Still leary/wary about the BU WR room. Think that can still be improved upon. If Smith or AJ went down we really have noone to pick up the slack IN MY VIEW. Would be nice to pick up a cheap vet

You might need to describe your thinking’s on defining Stoll as average. Seems like he filled a niche on a power football team. Connecting in space with on the move LB it feels like is a key skill he possesses. Usually you lean heavily on needing stats to define players. On that he really hasn’t shown up with production. He’s only been looked at for 19 targets in two seasons. I want to be fair and point out that QB1 wasn’t accustomed to utilizing the middle I the field with TEs much before his pro career. Hurts has clearly shown growth in his relationship with Goedert. But when you consider the amount of snaps Stoll has logged…..believe you make a T eligible that many snaps a QB probably looks even that guys way 19 times in the shear opportunities. Also have to take into consideration the high level percentages Stoll was out there on running plays. Clearly no opportunities for receptions on those. The O put up a large amount of points last season consistently. Fairly well balanced I’d even add. The physical bullying approach of such a strong Oline with two strong run blocking TEs really faired we’ll much of the time. League has become more finesse and situational personnel wise. Smaller LB and Edge players….with those Defensive minded concepts of personnel choices and deployment ….brute force they are weak against. But can’t but help considering how such a one dimensional ‘TE’ keys a defensive scheme/gameplan/ playcalling. Guy just doesn’t have threat built in him. I like the idea of going toward more of a receiving threat personnel. We previously have dominated running out of 11 personnel with 3 WR sets. You bring in the slot WR instead of the second TE. D most always respond with a Nickel defender subbing for a LB. Those are usually the smallest defenders that take snaps. They have to take the threat of the slot WR burning them seriously with any guy that poses any threat. Slot WR can do a block job to run like JJAW did very well at. In the pass game they can be pawns by getting in the way becoming a pick. But back to the run/pass….if the O is anywhere near on schedule on down and distance categories(while score isn’t a huge barrier) then those WR can just go out in their routes. Especially out leverage against the defender pattern. Make it difficult for that slot DB to just be staring into the backfield. He also isn’t getting the easy tip of his man trying to block him…that he instinctual wants to move to shed.

[cunninghamtheman]

Bleedingreen.com has an article trying to evaluate Jordan Davis rookie year. Feeling everybody here is plenty familiar enough with that site I don’t need to provide any links.

[cunninghamtheman]

Whole rookie class didn’t provide much of any production yet. Some many want to simply wave away concerns based on simply little opportunity to even make any judgements on. 

[cunninghamtheman]

PFF numbers aren’t flattering on Davis.

[cunninghamtheman]

I think we all know better than to simply base players quality, ability and especially potential based on PFF scoring system. 

[cunninghamtheman]

Expectations based on trading up to draft him so high clearly effect some judgement. I’m not labeling him based on his rookie year alone. The supposed ‘scouting word’ (negative concerns)on him was weakness playing too high and endurance. Those both clearly translated to carry over to the pros and be an issue. The team very obviously acknowledged their concern with these issues. His snaps were so very limited and controlled. They babied him into the rotation. Gotta be fair and call it like I saw it. I observed a very deliberate approach by our team with regard to Davis not being ready or…on the negative point of view not being capable…of logging considerable snaps each game. Such a large player at such a young age….positively thinking I want to believe he will grow into that enormous frame much more with age wisdoms gained along with pro weight training and conditioning. I realistically can’t envision him becoming a player that dominates snaps. Half the D snaps is looking like a ceiling….that may be even a dreaming reach to consider at that.

[cunninghamtheman]

The huge guy with his pad level being too high is an obvious concern and weakness. Such a big guy…but smaller players can win by leverage. You don’t need to pancake block Davis to run on him though. He’s a Nose. You just need to get around him. So Oline guy just needs to get on one power side of him to be effective. Don’t need to maul him off the line. Nullifying him with gaining a preferred side to attack is a win for any O. Not sure you can honestly say Davis proved himself in the run game or the pass rush. Pass rush some explanation can be pointed towards limited opportunities….somewhat. Limited snap endurance all together is an issue for the mountainous early draft pick. Seems like most anybody really trying to break down Davis film last season leans most exclusively to the preinjury tape for optimism and positivity. They very deliberately were slowing getting his feet wet to start his career.

[cunninghamtheman]

The minuscule snap count leasing into injury still obviously feeds concerns to worry about the ceilings on his durability and max snap count season lasting capabilities. It’s a real issue to the kids potential. Scouting reports all easily saw it as a concern. Team acted like they truely are concerned about this issue. The need for a Nose to play this D seems crucial. But we all knew Gannon was on rental. So you could question investing in our D needing a Nose so badly…to trade up and use 13 on it. 

[cunninghamtheman]

Pass rush expectations were very low I thought, to start with. Many seemingly enamored by Underwear Olympics digits expecting a pass rush demon. From the low expectation line of thinking i thought he showed well in the pass rushing area. He wasn’t given many pure pass rush situational snaps.

[cunninghamtheman]

He has the athleticism to move well in a given direction. Some nifty feet potential when considering his enormous build comparatively especially. But pass rush isn’t won running a forty yard dash. It mostly comes down to the quick first step. That get off snap ability. Not sure he ever will be elite level on the quick twitch first step get off the snap.

[cunninghamtheman]

I haven’t seen him display much variety of pass rushing techniques. So at best being optimistic even you have to consider him young and not ready for the job. Such a large size at such a young age lends to optimistically wanting to be patient evaluating his true career potential.

[cunninghamtheman]

So when breaking down his DT job…pass rush question marks abound. All starts with simply being available to play those snaps. Not where I would concentrate his low snap availability percentages. Can he ever build up to being on the field for more than half the snaps? Can he even build up to limited snaps per game and still make it through a 17(I expect 18 during his career) regular season games? Then come the important playoff games. Fletch and others for our team historically have known to pace themselves. Maybe a bit on the slack or conservative side early season. But had gas in the tank for the reliably more important games at the end. Jordan Davis has red flags abounding on whether he has this capability even existing. Babied snap start to his career still he was exposed by injury. Week 8 I think it was. Missed four games. Not sure he ever returned to display an effective game. Linval Joseph was showing as the superior option. Davis only logged ten snaps in practically the only game that ended up mattering…in Zona…you know which one. Looked to me like AR targeted him and Hargrave. Hargrave came to us from Steel town as their Nose. No wonder they let him walk. Against the run Hargrave was terrible. Film breakdown in the SB highlights exactly how AR knew to attack Hargrave with the run. Being able to block that side of Davis effectively to nullify him closing the gaping hole proved very reliably achieved by the Chiefs. 

[cunninghamtheman]

So I’m obviously questioning the true ability of Davis against the run. After injury he didn’t look good. But even ignoring that chalking it up to health….there is reason for concern in his run stopping ability. It’s easy with the eye test to see how he went down and we just became abysmal against the rush. My worry is possibly overestimating his effectiveness those first eight weeks even. Not like he was logging game changing numbers or percentages of snaps first off. High pad level he gets beat. Big guy so it’s a continuing obvious concern area where improvement is crucial. PFF doesn’t praise his run stuffing snaps that he actually even was in on as anything spectacular either though. Think week eight timing might have played a larger role than many acknowledge on the run D performance. Not sure we were as strong as the stats even suggest with Davis sparingly to start the season. Very possibly just enough time for teams to figure out a ‘book’ …’read’….or plan of attack to expose our weakness in this area. Seven weeks to study and figure out how to attack any D seems very common. The NFL top O and D minds will pick up on any little weakness eventually. Constant cat and mouse of adjustments being made to counter and adapt is business as usual. D scheme with dominating schematically tendencies can be exposed. Hargrave dominating in penetration…but was just as consistently weak holding his ground in times of need to do his run D job. Fletch the last two years showed times of lapse against prioritizing his run responsibilities also. Fletch and Hargrave not only don’t get their job done…but get beat badly ….LB weren’t getting a easy clean up run tackle. Davis size wise is just physically too much to move out of the way to create a huge running lane. But simply having average Oline talent showing ability to capably pick off an arm to attack and wall him away…that’s enough to beat a Nose. He mostly was in on five man fronts also.   Especially concerning when you factor in so many players on the line of scrimmage.

[cunninghamtheman]

Still feel much of the book is still out on fairly judging Davis. Trading up so high to draft him makes that somewhat of a negative from the start. Second year and feel everything still in the hands of relying on his potential…more than proven commodity. He has measurables to suggest no ceiling limits. But when realistically basing his true value on his actual on the field play? His career ‘floor’ still remains much too wide open on the lower ends. His concerned weakness areas showed well earned. High pad level is a real problem for him. Pass rush capability doubts haven’t been silenced. Endurance and durability red flags all but proved very well founded. Huge career defining questions on him. But even his supposed strength area I can’t say he really delivered on in enough of a manner for me to feel confident in being able to rely on. DT…especially a Nose…job is needing to hold ground against a double team. He didn’t convince me on that skill yet even. He’s too massive to really get moved on skates back yards. But I need more resistance from him to not so easily give away a playcalled preferred running lane side. He didn’t get blown back so much…but targeted for either run lane side creation. Not even just going around him so much….physical mass wise can’t go straight at him…but reliably going at walking him off to create one side of a the running lane is not acceptable. Run stuffing and especially Nose play gotta bring more resistance. He showed positive footwork agility and qualities to pursue down the line. Can maul favorable size advantage matchups. He’s just so much to physically handle for any undersized Oline(tends to especially trend at C). But can he provide and be relied on for a favorable matchup more….that’s actually a given. "More” isn’t a high enough bar. He needs to prove to be a matchup advantage much more often and consistently. Not just showing his value against more opponents….but the need to show he can be utilized on more just flat out shear numbers of plays on all these different opponents/matchups.

[cunninghamtheman]

Judgment still being determined about the Jordan Davis selection. Judgment on price being a trade up to 13 really clouds the positive value assessment. Can fairly educated evaluate his level of NFL readiness not being there. Weren’t even going to push him towards questioning whether endurance durability was even POSSIBLE. His freakish natural size and measurables point towards dreaming his potential limitless ceiling. Reality sledge hammers home his ceiling cap on just how often his top optimistic game production will ever be available to deliver. This cap applies to a very disappointing outlook to ever being capable of delivering at a high level for hardly any series of plays in a row. Two minute warning on either side of the half…whole world knows he can’t be out there. Teams, our division will pounce this year without mercy, on going to no huddle hurry up O to keep and target Davis on the field. Just too obvious a weakness that our honest enemies will drool over taking advantage of. So his ceiling already feels to not contain endurance and reliability for dominating consistent stacked snap production. Doubters about whether he can even be under a very conservative snap count and capably deliver in the late crucial part of the sport haven’t remotely been silenced. Rookie year can’t be the judge of limits for any kids NFL capable ceiling for body preparedness. Nothing compares to how unbelievably big strong and fast the NFL players possess. NFL man pro body has to ferociously endlessly be earned. To be a Nose? That’s the biggest baddest of them all. 

[cunninghamtheman]

Ceiling for pass rush on Davis? Think we can expect him to develop more moves to get at the QB. Just really low on experience and wisdom in this area. But his ceiling just has to be modest even optimistically pass rushing though. How many snaps will he get on passing downs? How many of those will be on highly predictably pass rushing opportunities? 3rd and 10….just don’t see him being in those opportunities much. Week by week limited snap capabilities….first job needing to be Nose duties. Add in how high, or in this case low, his season long durability availability becomes. Just can’t foresee him ever delivering as anything special as a pass rusher.

[cunninghamtheman]

13th pick DT with low pass rush ceiling, low snap count availability and questionable ceiling on season long durability. You don’t need to be on the side of against Jordan Davis to have to accept these limitations. That’s just to start with. He hasn’t even proven he is elite run defender. 

[cunninghamtheman]

Trading up so high to 13….for what has to be classified as a developmental player is questionable decision. Everything favorable towards his draft selection being favorable falls under career potential….almost solely still on the potential side of things. We’ll have our top trainers and coaches get that potential out of him. Young man will grown more into his massive body with age and time guided by the best professionals.

[cunninghamtheman]

But can you dream of him ever going 50 percent snaps a game? Can any realistic dreaming revolve around him surviving17(18 games)? Will he ever bring quality at the end of the year and playoffs? Each win on the schedule counts the same during the regular season. But we all know the final games are much more crucial and important. Any player that consistently shows his career season peaks always arrive first half of the season is of limited value to the team. But all this red flag questioning about him on endurance and durability just brings up the real damning elephant in the room…..will his body hold up to ever play this game? On the other side of pure optimism to believe his measurables will prevail with time and top guiding coaches/trainers/dieticians…it’s easy to negatively assess his huge body never being able to withstand the game. Ankles(or whatever) may just not be possible to reliably deliver his measurable quick agile feet and speed.