Ongoing Eagles News Discussion

[GreenbleedinNC]

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Opeta and Driscoll won't be here next year.   If Kelce retires that moves Jurgens to C.   So drafting another G isn't overkill.  Thr best man wins the starting job and at that point the depth looks pretty slim.     

But that's next year.   We have a fun season ahead, not at all looking next year.

Stop using facts to back you up 🤣

[GreenbleedinNC]

5 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Your counter to "overkill at RG” is basing the need on our C and RT being in the twilight of their careers? Think you practically debated yourself on that one. So RT would be the position of future need very clearly. Think T is the clear and obvious position to invest in the future of the Oline. But we brought in two guys to compete for backup LT position. Always possible Stout trims fat off one of them to work out.

Yes,much better to go into next year with 3 weak/new/inexperienced positions instead of 2. Great plan!!!!(That's where the C and RT come into play?????) You never answered my question as to who are your 3 starters after this year C,RG,RT. since getting a RG established THIS year is "overkill"

[cunninghamtheman]

3 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Opeta and Driscoll won't be here next year.   If Kelce retires that moves Jurgens to C.   So drafting another G isn't overkill.  Thr best man wins the starting job and at that point the depth looks pretty slim.     

But that's next year.   We have a fun season ahead, not at all looking next year.

How can you predict that we won’t value two players that are so well trained under Stoutland to be worth bringing back another year? Both exhibiting starting quality when pushed into action. Salary wise cheap also. G is a position that is rarely valued to take high in any draft. So taking a third round G this year is a fairly big investment at that position. Third round G whiff on Steen would be a significant screwed up investment. But what if they never even spent such high draft capital on a C and G back to back drafts? If Jurgens and Steen weren’t chosen. But we went with Opeta and invested in another area of the team instead of both those day two picks. Would we suffer much at all? That’s just about the Oline. The obvious assumption would be a gain elsewhere by trading off.

[cunninghamtheman]

2 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Stop using facts to back you up 🤣

Facts based on what? Two players that we have developed on the cheap well versed in our system? Both players have logged several starts capably already in their careers to actually prove they can do it.

[cunninghamtheman]

2 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Yes,much better to go into next year with 3 weak/new/inexperienced positions instead of 2. Great plan!!!!(That's where the C and RT come into play?????) You never answered my question as to who are your 3 starters after this year C,RG,RT. since getting a RG established THIS year is "overkill"

Jurgens was taken in the second…just last draft. But they still so obviously targeted Steen to convert to G. Guards aren’t taken, paid or valued near as much as a T. So third round is significant at the position. I’ll just repeat what it seems like you are the one acknowledging…RT is the only clear future need. We took a C last draft second round. Really high spot for a C. Third round this for a RG. So what more do you need me to answer than high draft capital was spent on C and RG. 

[cunninghamtheman]

And I said looking towards a potential first round pick next draft at RG …that’s the overkill part 

[cunninghamtheman]

We are so trained as Eagles fans that everything up front in the trenches is where the battle is won. I really believe it applies to D the most. My favorite player that I believe is the best I’ve ever seen, Reggie White, was the absolute top highlight of going to the Hall of Fame for me. I loved me some Don Shula. So I haven’t always been a top Eagles fan all my life. But being exposed to The Minister of Defense….hooked me. Jerome passing away recklessly racing his car was earth shattering for me right when I was hooked on the Eagles. Nobody had more reason to be soured on the players demanding and for forcing FA. Reggie White was the first FA. He was a strong leader for the players. Our owner was so bitter and fought the players so hard….he never offered Reggie a contract even. I don’t know if there was any contract White would have taken to stay even. He was leading the players fight against the owners. So maybe he just had to be the example of FA and go elsewhere….no real true answer to that since…it’s very well public documented knowledge we gave no offer to retain him. Any negative assumptions anybody would try to pin on Reggie in regards to him not wanting to be here…or trying to leave…just aren’t based on anything real. He was fighting the owners for players rights. But nothing was ever stated by him of any desires of his to get out of this franchise. He was leading players to create FA opportunities. Our owner took it so personally…and fought it so hard. If we had offered Reggie any opportunity to stay and he turned it down to leave …be whole different situation.  So much easier to see and appreciate what Reggie was doing for every future football player now. Owners are the most extreme greedy. As much as anybody points to the ridiculous salaries these athletes make….it’s laughable peanuts compared to what the owners have been raking in. Players only got where they are by fighting every inch against the owners.

[cunninghamtheman]

But fast forwarding to present day…..not sure our team philosophy of Dline priority has changed. Those guys can effect a game more than any other players short of the QB position. 

[cunninghamtheman]

Oline? Not sure the eighties mentality still applies equally along the O trenches. Such absolute focus on these just outstanding freak athletes rushing on the  Dline. Even the top Oline doesn’t guarantee a matchup advantage in the trenches against the top teams. 

[cunninghamtheman]

I’m such a believer and fan of Stout. We dropped Opeta. Exposed him to be lost and picked up by any team. But then brought him back. Just making roster shifting moves. But I’ve found myself questioning the dropoff from our starter in Seumalo and this third stringer we willingly just gifted anybody opportunity to steal. We released Opeta so we could shift around our roster limitations. Opeta has grown from each snap we’ve seen him. Really created no weakness with him in the lineup. I won’t say he created any level of domination like we all crave at every position either. But neither did Seumalo. When you look at that biggest last game….Seumalo screwed up noticeably. The two times in a row the resulted in Hurts gifting the Chiefs a D TD the most obvious. So what would it have cost us if we didn’t invest so endlessly and heavily in the Oline and had Opeta in there instead?

[cunninghamtheman]

So I know everybody here really seems to back Rosie and his way is the only right path. That our football philosophies being Eagles fans exposed so heavily to AR influence shaped our football beliefs.

[cunninghamtheman]

But I just want you each to step back and consider adapting and that the game evolves and changes. That our organization was perhaps ahead of many by philosophically devoting towards the trenches.

[cunninghamtheman]

But I think times have changed somewhat. Dline guys are unreal these days. Best Oline isn’t a reliable favorable matchup against our Dline….Niners Dline. I’m obviously picking and choosing favorably to my argument point…but what if we didn’t spend a trade up in the first for Dillard? A second on Jurgens? A third on Steen? I’m leaving out the obvious complete stud Dickerson we invested highly in…admittedly for favorable purposes proving my point. If we just trusted in Mailata…waited to fill Kelce void when he actually hung up his cleats. Just left things to Opeta at RG. The third string Oline we risked dropping so we could shuffle our 53 man roster. Not just a first round pick…but had to invest in trading up for Dillard. Then last draft a second on Jurgens. A third this time on Steen. This is even ignoring our day three investments on Oline…in Driscoll and such. My eyes easily see no real gain in this complete obsessive investment in Oline. I can envision a whole different scenario where we would be a better team had those picks gone elsewhere. Even not paid Seumalo. Love our studs we have on the Oline. I just don’t see us suffering if we didn’t spend that trade up for Dillard in the first, second on Jurgens or third on Steen. If the philosophy was different and wasn’t so heavily obsessed on Oline…..just rolled with that third stringer we actually released to move around roster guys…you know…while we kept Sermon and whoever you want to cherry pick at the back of our roster. In my mind it’s held us back some. I don’t see us suffering with that released unwanted minimal paid RG Opeta. Just throwing out this food for thought. Something to actually consider. However important you believe the Oline is to team success….think it’s not hard to see how our obsessive investment hasn’t paid off or been warranted. I’m admittedly not willing to give up Dickerson. So I’ve cherry picked the draft picks in hindsight to make my case. We’re paying the top dollar by far at C. Huge money to both T. But seems like I’m making a berth easy and clear to see case against the obsessive Oline investment. Roll with a guy that proved serviceable at RG getting paid minimum we even released for roster shifting convenience….instead of all that. A trade up in the first, second last year and third this draft….instead of Dillard, Jurgens and Steen…just consider those picks going to practically any other position group…roll with Opeta instead. I believe we’d be a better team. You know, in theory, based on other draft picks that I optimistically am envisioning contributing. Even conservatively not changing those picks to cherry pick Pro Bowl hindsight selections. Just any choices that were decent. Team would obviously be better to me.

[joemas6]

16 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

How is it "serious overkill" when Kelce and Lane will be retiring soon? be nice to at least have a top RG, maybe a C out of this mess, You always want top guys as BU's then complain when we add depth LOL . Lane and Kelce retire after this year. Tell me your starting C,RG and ROT for the '24 season

Ok...  Lane has contract until 2026. He just had an interview where he said he thinks this is going to be his last contract....  after they added the 2026 year. 

Lane is playing a few more years.   Kelce on the other hand... he basically said losing in the Superbowl is the reason he wants to play again this year.  So we should envision Jurgens moving to center next year.

That leaves your starting 5 ... and nothing behind it.   On top of the competition for Steen.... we will need depth ...EVERYWHERE on the OL.   

That's why it's not overkill.  You need more than 5 guys.... especially when at the moment....2 of them have not proven a thing without taking a meaningful NFL snap yet. 

[cunninghamtheman]

I won’t suggest I wouldn’t want to invest in such a stud coach like Stout. Not saying Oline isn’t important. But I believe we’ve been held back by ignoring most everything else going after Oline. Mailata was a wild card. Hindsight shows that we should have rolled the dice and trusted his development. Huge gamble at the time we drafted Dillard to put everything on the blindside LT in a rugby player. It takes that long to truly judge some draft choices. Obvious now…bad choice.

[joemas6]

10 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Yes,much better to go into next year with 3 weak/new/inexperienced positions instead of 2. Great plan!!!!(That's where the C and RT come into play?????) You never answered my question as to who are your 3 starters after this year C,RG,RT. since getting a RG established THIS year is "overkill"

Lane is my starter until he retires ....so 2027 we need a RT.

[joemas6]

8 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

How can you predict that we won’t value two players that are so well trained under Stoutland to be worth bringing back another year? Both exhibiting starting quality when pushed into action. Salary wise cheap also. G is a position that is rarely valued to take high in any draft. So taking a third round G this year is a fairly big investment at that position. Third round G whiff on Steen would be a significant screwed up investment. But what if they never even spent such high draft capital on a C and G back to back drafts? If Jurgens and Steen weren’t chosen. But we went with Opeta and invested in another area of the team instead of both those day two picks. Would we suffer much at all? That’s just about the Oline. The obvious assumption would be a gain elsewhere by trading off.

Because Driscoll will get paid elsewhere.... Opeta...who knows..   

But you look at contracts that expire... that's where you see the drafts go for the Eagles....especially in the positions they value.  

You keep dreaming about your all star secondary and RB that gets drafted early.  but follow the pattern.  Especially the pattern that has made the team this successful since Chip left and Howie took over.     2nd most successful franchise in the league after KC.

 

[joemas6]

8 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Facts based on what? Two players that we have developed on the cheap well versed in our system? Both players have logged several starts capably already in their careers to actually prove they can do it.

2 players not under team control.

[joemas6]

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But fast forwarding to present day…..not sure our team philosophy of Dline priority has changed. Those guys can effect a game more than any other players short of the QB position. 

Right....you build a team...  QB....then DL....then OL....# 1 receiving weapons.   Then the rest.

[cunninghamtheman]

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ok...  Lane has contract until 2026. He just had an interview where he said he thinks this is going to be his last contract....  after they added the 2026 year. 

Lane is playing a few more years.   Kelce on the other hand... he basically said losing in the Superbowl is the reason he wants to play again this year.  So we should envision Jurgens moving to center next year.

That leaves your starting 5 ... and nothing behind it.   On top of the competition for Steen.... we will need depth ...EVERYWHERE on the OL.   

That's why it's not overkill.  You need more than 5 guys.... especially when at the moment....2 of them have not proven a thing without taking a meaningful NFL snap yet. 

You pretty much made the point that optimistically Lane isn’t in his last season. Our biggest issue along the Oline in my opinion, right now, is backup LT. Brought two guy in to compete for that job. Opeta and Driscoll have started games. Not a snap or two. They both proved….not potentially or could….they both handled starting serviceable…that’s what I consider a modest take on their performance. Opeta wasn’t ready his first game…improved each go though. I actually think they both performed better than serviceable…I think they showed better than several teams actual starters. Those two players been trained by the best Oline coach around. Yet somehow are super cheap options. We’d be fine with either starting at RG. I like Driscoll kind of being a multi backup option though. What position is less prioritized than G? I mean, if they raptor arm pigeon hole you can’t play tackle and you only can be a G…basically means the difference in first round pick to becoming third round pick. You place no value foolishly in RB. But RB slide to day two because the position isn’t coveted league wide in winning enough. But G is even behind that. Third round G choice is a high investment at that position. Not many players at that position go earlier. So how endlessly you going to obsessively spend on RG? We have arguably four guys we’d be fine starting at RG this season. You pointed towards the future. Kelce retires and Jurgens takes over at C. Are we really watching and scouting a first round RG for next draft? Is it possible to spread investment around the team position rooms more and become a better team?

[joemas6]

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Oline? Not sure the eighties mentality still applies equally along the O trenches. Such absolute focus on these just outstanding freak athletes rushing on the  Dline. Even the top Oline doesn’t guarantee a matchup advantage in the trenches against the top teams. 

You don't need a matchup advantage on the OL...much like the secondary... their job is to prevent a mismatch advantage for the opposition.  You need to avoid a weakness on your OL and in your secondary for the opposition to exploit. 

Having solid players across the board and in your depth .... and under contract is a good strategy 

Assuming Jurgens or Steen ...especially of one doesn't play a snap this year.... are quality NFL starters is not smart.

Assuming Driscoll and Opeta who haven't been significantly paid yet are going to come back... not smart.

Again... too early for next year's draft.  So it works both ways...too early to dismiss a top pick on the OL. 

[cunninghamtheman]

10 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Because Driscoll will get paid elsewhere.... Opeta...who knows..   

But you look at contracts that expire... that's where you see the drafts go for the Eagles....especially in the positions they value.  

You keep dreaming about your all star secondary and RB that gets drafted early.  but follow the pattern.  Especially the pattern that has made the team this successful since Chip left and Howie took over.     2nd most successful franchise in the league after KC.

 

There is the good and bad of looking back in hindsight. I can see versions of us being better. If we didn’t trade up for Dillard investing so highly in the first round trade up. Didn’t gorge on the second round Jurgens. Didn’t come back and take Steen in the third this draft. Actually spent all that…on other positions. Even modest thinking, not just cherry picking a Pro Bowl stud in hindsight..,we’d be better

[joemas6]

22 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I won’t suggest I wouldn’t want to invest in such a stud coach like Stout. Not saying Oline isn’t important. But I believe we’ve been held back by ignoring most everything else going after Oline. Mailata was a wild card. Hindsight shows that we should have rolled the dice and trusted his development. Huge gamble at the time we drafted Dillard to put everything on the blindside LT in a rugby player. It takes that long to truly judge some draft choices. Obvious now…bad choice.

We have been held back?   As in other teams have had more success?

 

[joemas6]

Opeta and Driscoll are not under contract after this year.   You need to face reality and understand this.

But let's engage in the conversation.   What will it take to retain their services.... if again you think they are quality?   

My theory.... if they are quality... they will have value around the league.  You have been spoiled as an Eagles fan via your OL... other teams ,most teams ... do not have 5 quality starters.     If Opeta and Driscoll are available... and seen as quality...  they will get offers from other teams.

So ... what are you willing to pay to keep them?   Say both get $5 million per offers?   Say one gets a 4 year offer?

What is your plan?

[cunninghamtheman]

13 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

2 players not under team control.

We actually released Opeta. To shift around roster limitations. Driscoll I can’t see where he is breaking the bank with some other team. The team can control keeping them fairly easily. Not under contract control. But much less investment to buy back…than practically any other options. Basically near league minimum level guys…been here for years under Stout. Actually logged significant playing time. So not just some TC practice squad guys. I don’t see where investing so small investing in these two guys is hard to be able to accomplish. You can’t be seriously saying that both are FA we can’t afford to keep around…while wanting to spend some real investment as a counter. Basically feels like you are saying these super cheap developed two Oline guys will get bought away from us being too expensive so we must obsessively be forced to spend another high draft pick.