17 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Right....you build a team...  QB....then DL....then OL....# 1 receiving weapons.   Then the rest.

Oh…so only one formula can possibly be successful? Game hasn’t changed or evolved since FA happened? 

So explain the Bengals. How did that putrid Oline get so close to winning it all? 

22 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Right....you build a team...  QB....then DL....then OL....# 1 receiving weapons.   Then the rest.

I even have those Cincy Bengals as my favorites to win it all this season. But not because they go by your only formula to succeed. Could have won it all two seasons ago with a terrible Oline. Think they’ve improved that some. But don’t cheat and Google their starting or backup Oline and name them.

Bills been a top contending team for several years under McDermott. You trying to argue because of their dominant Oline? Again…name their rostered Oline players.

Rams didn’t have the top Oline

8 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

There is the good and bad of looking back in hindsight. I can see versions of us being better. If we didn’t trade up for Dillard investing so highly in the first round trade up. Didn’t gorge on the second round Jurgens. Didn’t come back and take Steen in the third this draft. Actually spent all that…on other positions. Even modest thinking, not just cherry picking a Pro Bowl stud in hindsight..,we’d be better

There is good in looking at the success of the Eagles vs the rest of the NFL since Howie took over from Chip with the way things have been done. 

We have Jurgens and Steen who are not proven at all.   We have Opeta and Driscoll who very easily could be getting offers to start elsewhere.    

In the perfect world...Jurgens starts as a quality C and Steen as a quality RG... and Opeta and Driscoll come back as long term quality back ups.

But in the real world... that's 4 unknowns.   

In the real world, we don't know who falls to our draft spot.   In the real world, a good business decision is to keep an open mind.   You plan ahead, but leave yourself flexible to adjust to the current situation.... which is unknown about 10-11 months from now.

Who knows... instead of draft ...maybe we sign a big OL in free agency next year?  Then Steen ....a 3rd round pick becomes the swing player backup?   Who knows? 

That's not the issue now.  Trying to be definitive one way or the other is just silly now.

I want to make sure I’m not saying having a strong Oline is any kind of bad thing. I just can see so many ways to succeed. But I’m pointing out how we’ve spent so very much on that position group. I believe a team can win other ways. 

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

There is good in looking at the success of the Eagles vs the rest of the NFL since Howie took over from Chip with the way things have been done. 

We have Jurgens and Steen who are not proven at all.   We have Opeta and Driscoll who very easily could be getting offers to start elsewhere.    

In the perfect world...Jurgens starts as a quality C and Steen as a quality RG... and Opeta and Driscoll come back as long term quality back ups.

But in the real world... that's 4 unknowns.   

In the real world, we don't know who falls to our draft spot.   In the real world, a good business decision is to keep an open mind.   You plan ahead, but leave yourself flexible to adjust to the current situation.... which is unknown about 10-11 months from now.

Who knows... instead of draft ...maybe we sign a big OL in free agency next year?  Then Steen ....a 3rd round pick becomes the swing player backup?   Who knows? 

That's not the issue now.  Trying to be definitive one way or the other is just silly now.

How does this all only apply to Oline position?

I see it as a whole team picture and puzzle

9 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

We actually released Opeta. To shift around roster limitations. Driscoll I can’t see where he is breaking the bank with some other team. The team can control keeping them fairly easily. Not under contract control. But much less investment to buy back…than practically any other options. Basically near league minimum level guys…been here for years under Stout. Actually logged significant playing time. So not just some TC practice squad guys. I don’t see where investing so small investing in these two guys is hard to be able to accomplish. You can’t be seriously saying that both are FA we can’t afford to keep around…while wanting to spend some real investment as a counter. Basically feels like you are saying these super cheap developed two Oline guys will get bought away from us being too expensive so we must obsessively be forced to spend another high draft pick. 

See... you keep making the case for these guys....yet you are ignorant to the possibility they could get offers to start elsewhere?  

The league knows all this stuff.   There is no flying under the radar.    All it takes was one quality game for either of these guys vs any team these last 3 years.... for that team to say " man this guy played great against us, let's make him an offer"

Then we have to match...but also they have to pass up a chance to start.   Good luck.

But my feelings are RT replacement for Lane is the only real consideration. Any questioning about RG feels like overkill obsession. The third string Opeta we released last year exposing him to be stolen is proven serviceable. That’s like worse case scenario of the high picks being complete busts at the position…and we still are fine.

I mean...do you match $20 mil for 4 years to keep Driscoll as a backup.... or do you use a draft pick?  

Or do you just offer a little more for an upgrade?  Then drop Steen as a swing...who you have under cheap $$$ control for 3 more years.

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

See... you keep making the case for these guys....yet you are ignorant to the possibility they could get offers to start elsewhere?  

The league knows all this stuff.   There is no flying under the radar.    All it takes was one quality game for either of these guys vs any team these last 3 years.... for that team to say " man this guy played great against us, let's make him an offer"

Then we have to match...but also they have to pass up a chance to start.   Good luck.

I’m not ignorant about any of that. I’m clearly the opposite and an obsessive fan that talks and thinks about this stuff even in June. We actually exposed Opeta by releasing him to move guys around to IR and what not. Could have signed anywhere this offseason. So I’m basing it off actual factual reality. Are you making the case we could lose either cheap guy to another team because they actually show well for us? Like they step up and perform well for us…so we gotta let them walk not being able to afford to keep them…so we must use high draft pick instead? Not sure I get your point there. 

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But my feelings are RT replacement for Lane is the only real consideration. Any questioning about RG feels like overkill obsession. The third string Opeta we released last year exposing him to be stolen is proven serviceable. That’s like worse case scenario of the high picks being complete busts at the position…and we still are fine.

Again... let's see how the 2023 season plays out.   2024 free agency....and who drops to us in the draft.

Right now... I have 4 starters and a competition at RG.  Nothing proven.   2023 needs to happen first. 

But I would use Dickerson as an example.  BPA.  Could be an all pro for a decade...  what was your reaction when he was drafted?   

Do you pass that up because of " overkill"?    I don't. 

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

I’m not ignorant about any of that. I’m clearly the opposite and an obsessive fan that talks and thinks about this stuff even in June. We actually exposed Opeta by releasing him to move guys around to IR and what not. Could have signed anywhere this offseason. So I’m basing it off actual factual reality. Are you making the case we could lose either cheap guy to another team because they actually show well for us? Like they step up and perform well for us…so we gotta let them walk not being able to afford to keep them…so we must use high draft pick instead? Not sure I get your point there. 

Ok....forget Opeta... Driscoll.  

Imo.... I think it's clear Opeta isn't good.  He is a body.    Driscoll I think will get offers to start next year.

I'm not passing up a potential Dickerson because of Steen and Opeta.   

If....big if... that's what falls to us in the draft.    Now obviously... Steen might actually play this year and play well? 

Who knows?

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I mean...do you match $20 mil for 4 years to keep Driscoll as a backup.... or do you use a draft pick?  

Or do you just offer a little more for an upgrade?  Then drop Steen as a swing...who you have under cheap $$$ control for 3 more years.

Driscoll as a FA this offseason I couldn’t see getting offered much more than minimum. So him jumping to 20 mil offer would only happen if he played for us…and player well. If he performed so well…have to be by starting for us well. I mean he’s just nowhere near that kind of valued. So he’d command that offer by earning it starting for us. If that happened…most optimistic best friend of Driscoll point of view….you pay him five mil a season to start. If he proves himself for us worthy of starting…that’s peanuts. Why wouldn’t you just pay him that to start and be forced to draft a replacement so high? Five mil contract or high draft pick? Five mil seems cheap to me. Even though it’s worlds away from his value now.

11 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I mean...do you match $20 mil for 4 years to keep Driscoll as a backup.... or do you use a draft pick?  

Or do you just offer a little more for an upgrade?  Then drop Steen as a swing...who you have under cheap $$$ control for 3 more years.

You mean…another draft pick. Pretty high investment in a G on day two. I can only see Driscoll jumping so high to earn a 4 year 20 mil contract by taking over a starting position for us. If he does that…you are t willing to retain your starting Oline for five mil per season?

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Imo.... I think it's clear Opeta isn't good.  He is a body.    Driscoll I think will get offers to start next year.

I'm not passing up a potential Dickerson because of Steen and Opeta.   

If....big if... that's what falls to us in the draft.    Now obviously... Steen might actually play this year and play well? 

Who knows?

Is there any possibilities in your mind of a Dickerson level player being chosen at any position not on the line?

Are you passing up Weapon X or Fred Warner for Dillard? 

Of coarse I don’t want to pass up any good players. But that occurring is much more likely when you block out these other positions. Dillard, Jurgens and Steen haven’t made us better. Paying top money to great players we already have also. If we take those three high picks and use them elsewhere and just rolled with Opeta we’d have been better. Dropoff from Seumalo to Opeta just isn’t that great. Opeta has proven he wouldn’t be a liability. He’s also not a dominant difference maker. 

I do value Oline. I’m not saying it’s not important or doesn’t matter. Want that to be made clear. 

11 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Driscoll as a FA this offseason I couldn’t see getting offered much more than minimum. So him jumping to 20 mil offer would only happen if he played for us…and player well. If he performed so well…have to be by starting for us well. I mean he’s just nowhere near that kind of valued. So he’d command that offer by earning it starting for us. If that happened…most optimistic best friend of Driscoll point of view….you pay him five mil a season to start. If he proves himself for us worthy of starting…that’s peanuts. Why wouldn’t you just pay him that to start and be forced to draft a replacement so high? Five mil contract or high draft pick? Five mil seems cheap to me. Even though it’s worlds away from his value now.

How much did Dillard get?   Did he play much last year? 

Again..  to assume a guy is quality but won't get an offer elsewhere is not smart.

$5 mil is cheap for a starting OL.   Only takes one team. 

I’m just pointing out how we just have invested so much on it. That any starting positions can make a winning difference. 

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

How much did Dillard get?   Did he play much last year? 

Again..  to assume a guy is quality but won't get an offer elsewhere is not smart.

$5 mil is cheap for a starting OL.   Only takes one team. 

How does Driscoll earn that…without you being able to want to keep him?