EMB Blog: 2021 Training Camp / Preseason

[MillerTime]

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Keep believing everything Howie tells you.   Reagor was Doug's idea, Doug wanted Hurts, Doug wanted to play guys who hadn't produced in over a year over a guy who was the team's leading receiver, even while desperately trying to win games, Doug gave out the bad contracts, Doug traded for a broken down WR and gave then them big money... Doug Doug Doug.  Of course, Doug wasn't allowed to keep his OC around... but Doug had complete autonomy on everything else.  

My post agreed that Howie gave out bad contracts. My post said it was doug’s decision with Alshon. I never said anything about any of the other stuff you posted. Where did Reagor or Hurts come from? Breathe man, we know your hate for Howie is deep but you don’t have to fantasize conversations to make your point.

[BigEFly]

84% increase in Covid infections in the last week among children and teenagers.  I suspect some of the few NFL players not vaccinated are thinking they are young and less susceptible.  Delta don’t care 

[Iggles_Phan]

9 minutes ago, MillerTime said:

My post agreed that Howie gave out bad contracts. My post said it was doug’s decision with Alshon. I never said anything about any of the other stuff you posted. Where did Reagor or Hurts come from? Breathe man, we know your hate for Howie is deep but you don’t have to fantasize conversations to make your point.

You said that Doug earned being the fall guy.  So, I responded to that.  Doug had his share in the failures.  Doug was not responsible for all the failures of the last season.  So, Doug should be the fall guy, and once again Howie should be allowed to continue his malpractice?  Nah.

That is my issue with Howie.  If they had run it back with everyone, fine.  But, they decided to make change... then you run everyone out that had a hand in it.  Howie was as much to blame, if not more, than anyone else in the building.  Point being, there should have been no 'fall guy', but a complete house cleaning.  

Don't suggest that someone deserved to be a fall guy for Howie.  He's had plenty of people to insulate him at every turn.  Perhaps since he's never at fault, he should be stripped of any credit for 2017 just as much.  After all, if every bad decision that's ever been made by the team has belonged to someone else, I'd guess that the good decisions must have belonged to someone else as well.  I guess we should thank Joe Douglas, not Howie Roseman for 2017.  

[MillerTime]

17 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You said that Doug earned being the fall guy.  So, I responded to that.  Doug had his share in the failures.  Doug was not responsible for all the failures of the last season.  So, Doug should be the fall guy, and once again Howie should be allowed to continue his malpractice?  Nah.

That is my issue with Howie.  If they had run it back with everyone, fine.  But, they decided to make change... then you run everyone out that had a hand in it.  Howie was as much to blame, if not more, than anyone else in the building.  Point being, there should have been no 'fall guy', but a complete house cleaning.  

Don't suggest that someone deserved to be a fall guy for Howie.  He's had plenty of people to insulate him at every turn.  Perhaps since he's never at fault, he should be stripped of any credit for 2017 just as much.  After all, if every bad decision that's ever been made by the team has belonged to someone else, I'd guess that the good decisions must have belonged to someone else as well.  I guess we should thank Joe Douglas, not Howie Roseman for 2017.  

I agree Howie should have been fired. But to put every decision on Howie isn’t where I agree. Doug got fired for a reason. I said the Alshon part was Dougs fault. I was saying he earned being fired for his own faults, not to be a fall guy for Howie. Howie deserves to be fired too.

And yes i said he earned it after the fall guy comment. But he earned being fired was what I meant. Defending Howie for one thing doesn’t mean I defend all his decisions.

 

[RLC]

Howie gave Alshon a terrible contract.
Doug was wrong to play Alshon over Fulgham.

Both things are true.

[Iggles_Phan]

8 minutes ago, MillerTime said:

I agree Howie should have been fired. But to put every decision on Howie isn’t where I agree. Doug got fired for a reason. I said the Alshon part was Dougs fault. I was saying he earned being fired for his own faults, not to be a fall guy for Howie. Howie deserves to be fired too.

And yes i said he earned it after the fall guy comment. But he earned being fired was what I meant.

 

 

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

Howie gave Alshon a terrible contract.
Doug was wrong to play Alshon over Fulgham.

Both things are true.

Doug deserved to be fired.  

Howie deserved to be fired.

 

But, every decision that was a bad one falls on Doug, or so goes the spin.

[HazletonEagle]

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

 

Doug deserved to be fired.  

Howie deserved to be fired.

 

But, every decision that was a bad one falls on Doug, or so goes the spin.

Well, Howie is the best GM in the NFL. So he has an incredibly long leash.

[Iggles_Phan]

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

Well, Howie is the best GM in the NFL. So he has an incredibly long leash.

Sure he is.  

[RLC]

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Doug deserved to be fired.  

Howie deserved to be fired.

Can't argue this!

[MillerTime]

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

 

Doug deserved to be fired.  

Howie deserved to be fired.

 

But, every decision that was a bad one falls on Doug, or so goes the spin.

Outside of the Alshon decision and him developing players what else did I blame on doug?

Again, I said Howie gave out bad contracts. Show me where I said every bad decision was doug’s fault.

[BigEFly]

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Keep believing everything Howie tells you.   Reagor was Doug's idea, Doug wanted Hurts, Doug wanted to play guys who hadn't produced in over a year over a guy who was the team's leading receiver, even while desperately trying to win games, Doug gave out the bad contracts, Doug traded for a broken down WR and then gave them big money... Doug Doug Doug.  Of course, Doug wasn't allowed to keep his OC around... but Doug had complete autonomy on everything else.  

I think you are mistaking posters that place blame on Doug as buying into Howie’s subterfuge.  I suspect most of those posters want Howie gone as much as you do.   If Doug wanted Reagor over Jefferson against the entire scouting staff and Howie’s own leanings, then giving into Doug is a Howie failing.  If Stout wanted JP despite the evidence he was way past his prime and out of shape, Howie should have tried harder to educate Stout on other options out there.  

If Howie had influence because of Jeffery’s contract on starting him over Fulgham, Doug should have stood up and said no.   My suspicion is that Fulgham was getting caught up with on tape and the practice habits that got him cut twice surfaced.  I also suspect the adage of not losing the job due to injury played a factor.  Who didn’t watch Jeffery’s box out TD and mumble that, damnit, that’s what we need to see from JJAW and Fulgham?

If Howie wants all the glory as GM because the buck stops there, well then he deserves all of the blame too.  Otherwise, he is a weasel and threatens the integrity of the organization.  I believe even AFan has spoken about his failures and wants him gone.  I will bet if you polled the posters on here 100% are done with Howie. Some more adamant than others, for sure, because there are much worse GMs and candidates out there.  If my choice was Mike Lombardi or Howie, I would take Howie, for example.  

That is part of the problem.  Who thinks GM hiring is a forte for Lurie.  A person skill at the cap and in maximizing talent evaluation. Who out there should be targeted that isn’t currently a GM?  It’s not as simple as fire Howie.  The real issue is replace Howie with _________?  

So, who do you have in mind and why?  I like Jeremiah but have no idea of his cap skills, contract negotiation skills or identifying other staff skills. Now, he can hire a cap/contract guy.  Eagles have one currently.  The medical staff may be okay at this point, so immediate changes may not be necessary.   If Howie goes, who amongst his staff stays or goes? I think I like Weidl and the pro scouting staff seems okay, but what we know is surface.  Harder than just "fire Howie”, the adjustments that go with it.  
 

 

[Iggles_Phan]

1 minute ago, MillerTime said:

Outside of the Alshon decision and him developing players what else did I blame on doug?

Again, I said Howie gave out bad contracts. Show me where I said every bad decision was doug’s fault.

Not you... the Howie loyalists, who put Howie's job security above team success.

[BigEFly]

3 minutes ago, MillerTime said:

Outside of the Alshon decision and him developing players what else did I blame on doug?

Again, I said Howie gave out bad contracts. Show me where I said every bad decision was doug’s fault.

If you don’t blame Doug on the deteriorating play calling on both O and D, who do you blame?

[MillerTime]

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not you... the Howie loyalists, who put Howie's job security above team success.

Okay thats fair, but your response to me was randomly putting me in that category.

[BigEFly]

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not you... the Howie loyalists, who put Howie's job security above team success.

Who the F are the Howie loyalists?  I think everyone has said it is time to move on from Howie in the Blog.  Not being as rabid as you are doesn’t make a Howie loyalist. 

[MillerTime]

3 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

If you don’t blame Doug on the deteriorating play calling on both O and D, who do you blame?

I agree with that too but I never said it. My point is I don’t blame EVERY ISSUE on doug or howie. They both messed up.

[Iggles_Phan]

Just now, BigEFly said:

Who the F are the Howie loyalists?  I think everyone has said it is time to move on from Howie in the Blog.  Not being as rabid as you are doesn’t make a Howie loyalist. 

@austinfan and @HazletonEagle

I give you exhibit A on HE.

9 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Well, Howie is the best GM in the NFL. So he has an incredibly long leash.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MillerTime said:

Even so, that’s a reach just to hate on Howie. IMO the evidence strongly supports it being a Doug decision. He got fired because he was too loyal to his coaches. He definitely did that with players too.

That contract was a mistake, just like Wentz’ contract. Neither are on the team. He has proven that he will bite the bullet vs justifying.

Doug didn’t give him the bad contract.  Gotta side with @RememberTheKoy on this one.  The weasel who wants to be a coach has to much input on game day decisions.

[MillerTime]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Doug didn’t give him the bad contract.  Gotta side with @RememberTheKoy on this one.  The weasel who wants to be a coach has to much input on game day decisions.

To me doug is the one that played him though. I agree howie gave him a bad contract. I dont agree that he made doug play him. Doug stood strong in his beliefs this past year and it got him fired.

[Iggles_Phan]

8 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I think you are mistaking posters that place blame on Doug as buying into Howie’s subterfuge.  I suspect most of those posters want Howie gone as much as you do.   If Doug wanted Reagor over Jefferson against the entire scouting staff and Howie’s own leanings, then giving into Doug is a Howie failing.  If Stout wanted JP despite the evidence he was way past his prime and out of shape, Howie should have tried harder to educate Stout on other options out there.  

If Howie had influence because of Jeffery’s contract on starting him over Fulgham, Doug should have stood up and said no.   My suspicion is that Fulgham was getting caught up with on tape and the practice habits that got him cut twice surfaced.  I also suspect the adage of not losing the job due to injury played a factor.  Who didn’t watch Jeffery’s box out TD and mumble that, damnit, that’s what we need to see from JJAW and Fulgham?

If Howie wants all the glory as GM because the buck stops there, well then he deserves all of the blame too.  Otherwise, he is a weasel and threatens the integrity of the organization.  I believe even AFan has spoken about his failures and wants him gone.  I will bet if you polled the posters on here 100% are done with Howie. Some more adamant than others, for sure, because there are much worse GMs and candidates out there.  If my choice was Mike Lombardi or Howie, I would take Howie, for example.  

That is part of the problem.  Who thinks GM hiring is a forte for Lurie.  A person skill at the cap and in maximizing talent evaluation. Who out there should be targeted that isn’t currently a GM?  It’s not as simple as fire Howie.  The real issue is replace Howie with _________?  

So, who do you have in mind and why?  I like Jeremiah but have no idea of his cap skills, contract negotiation skills or identifying other staff skills. Now, he can hire a cap/contract guy.  Eagles have one currently.  The medical staff may be okay at this point, so immediate changes may not be necessary.   If Howie goes, who amongst his staff stays or goes? I think I like Weidl and the pro scouting staff seems okay, but what we know is surface.  Harder than just "fire Howie”, the adjustments that go with it.  

I'm on record as saying I want Jeremiah.  The cap specialist doesn't need to be the one negotiating and targeting free agents... just in crossing "T"s and dotting "I"s.

 

But, it is also not my job to know who the better option is in the NFL circles.  I do not have access to the personnel people and the chance to network at league meetings, or glad hand whenever the NFL types get together... the draft, Senior Bowl, Combine, etc.  So, its an easy deflection to say, "Who would you hire for GM?"  The truth is that most of us couldn't name more than half a dozen GMs in the league right now.  That doesn't mean we can't identify when one is doing a poor job by evaluating the results.

[WentzFan11]

Howie is a really good GM.

[BigEFly]

I think both @austinfan and @HazletonEagle have expressed a desire to move on from Howie.  AFan has pointed out his level of success.  Kind of a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush scenario.  So the question before you is who replaces Howie that has a success level greater than Howie?  It is so easy to say fire so and so, but hiring managers and higher know that you have to have a succession plan in place and with higher level managers like Howie, that potentially includes a lot of his direct reports.  The person you suggest, who has he surrounded himself with in the past and what are their success levels?   We only need to look at AR and Doug.  When AR’s staff got hired away or in the case of Johnson, died, his succession plan faltered.  As Doug, because of his limited coaching experience, saw Flip and Reich hired away, he promoted unqualified coaches to replace them. So like a coach has contacts and trees, who is in the tree for Howie’s replacement leading scouts, leading medical, leading cap/contract negotiations and possibly coaching the team.  Who do you have in mind?

[austinfan]

7 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

You're assuming Lowie will allow NS to pursue his vision.  There is a reason why he was not on the radar and then hired.  There is a reason why people say he was a puppet hire.  This is the same front office that dictated to the last coach who his assistants would be.  I am sure Lowie will cover all of that during their Tuesday debriefings. 

 

You're assuming we are normal NFL franchise, with sensibility and direction.   

That's because the last coach was an idiot who didn't hire a single coach who anyone considered first rate after Reich left, he inherited Stoutland from Chip.

[Iggles_Phan]

1 minute ago, BigEFly said:

I think both @austinfan and @HazletonEagle have expressed a desire to move on from Howie.  AFan has pointed out his level of success.  Kind of a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush scenario.  So the question before you is who replaces Howie that has a success level greater than Howie?  It is so easy to say fire so and so, but hiring managers and higher know that you have to have a succession plan in place and with higher level managers like Howie, that potentially includes a lot of his direct reports.  The person you suggest, who has he surrounded himself with in the past and what are their success levels?   We only need to look at AR and Doug.  When AR’s staff got hired away or in the case of Johnson, died, his succession plan faltered.  As Doug, because of his limited coaching experience, saw Flip and Reich hired away, he promoted unqualified coaches to replace them. So like a coach has contacts and trees, who is in the tree for Howie’s replacement leading scouts, leading medical, leading cap/contract negotiations and possibly coaching the team.  Who do you have in mind?

Answered, but it isn't my job to fire and hire.   It is also not my job to draft.  But, if it were, I'd venture I couldn't do worse than Howie has, even with my limited access to information.

 

I've never seen either afan or HE say that they had a desire to move on.  But they are welcome to actually say it if they'd like.

[MillerTime]

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Answered, but it isn't my job to fire and hire.   It is also not my job to draft.  But, if it were, I'd venture I couldn't do worse than Howie has, even with my limited access to information.

And that’s a narcissist comment. Not saying you are one btw. But that’s like me saying i could be running back and gain a yard in an NFL game. I can’t. It’s easy to judge from the outside. Tampa Bay traded multiple picks to draft a kicker in the 2nd round years ago. That’s an example of being worse. 

With that said, Howie has been bad, but I seriously doubt you’d be better.