Is it time for Minshew *** Poll ***

[Bwestbrook36]

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

If your dentures fell out of your mouth and hit the keyboard it would still be better than your posts.

 

[Jeep_man]

10 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Honestly I don’t like the overall size of our skilled position players. They’re all basically around six feet for these receivers, and most are under 200 pounds. We are expecting these guys to fight for passes, but really they don’t have the size to do it. Seriously go take a look at the Chargers receivers and how big they all are. I mean the catch radius for guys like that just makes the job a lot easier for the quarterback. I was watching the end of the Colts vs Buck and Brady threw an out to Brate. He was completely covered, but he just muscled the ball away from the defender to make the catch and get out of bounds. Meanwhile we have a wide open Ward drop a touchdown that hits him right in the hands. Frankly that drop was far more egregious than both of Reagor’s drops because it wasn’t contested. The Eagles just don’t have receivers any quarterback can count on to go make plays, because they’re all basically the same sized guy. I know some people around here are praising the Jackson kid, but look he’s converting to a new position and he’s a rookie. He’s definitely going to take some time. He can’t even block yet. The Eagles need some size at the receiver position. Jalen Reagor is playing an outside receiver position at 5’11”, and you know they tend to boost the height of players in these set ups which means he’s probably closer to 5’9”.

Reagor doesn't look 5-11, he is more like 5-8.. I remember Desean Jackson being 5-8 on draft day and grew 2 inches when he made the Eagles roster.

[brkmsn]

7 minutes ago, Jeep_man said:

Reagor doesn't look 5-11, he is more like 5-8.. I remember Desean Jackson being 5-8 on draft day and grew 2 inches when he made the Eagles roster.

Once again, the combine measurements are 100% accurate. Jackson was 69.75 inches tall. Reagor is 70.63 inches tall. Jackson was listed at 6' in college, so his draft status took a hit when he measured 5' 9 3/4" at the combine. He was not 5' 8" as a pro. As for the the roster info, his height was correctly rounded up to the nearest inch (5' 10") as is Reagor's height at 5' 11".

[EazyEaglez]

37 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Once again, the combine measurements are 100% accurate. Jackson was 69.75 inches tall. Reagor is 70.63 inches tall. Jackson was listed at 6' in college, so his draft status took a hit when he measured 5' 9 3/4" at the combine. He was not 5' 8" as a pro. As for the the roster info, his height was correctly rounded up to the nearest inch (5' 10") as is Reagor's height at 5' 11".

Reagor isn’t 5’11” you’re basically saying it yourself. He’s measured up to that height and it’s still small for a receiver especially one playing on the outside. 

[birdman#12]

On 10/14/2021 at 11:47 PM, brkmsn said:

Hurts should be learning and improving with every game. His timing should be getting better with every practice. That hasn't been happening. Sticking with him too long might adversely affect the growth of the young WRs. It's time to open up the competition for the QB1 job. Hurts can still wind up being the guy, but right now, he can't even perform in front of the home crowd. I'm a patient guy, but if there is someone sitting behind a starter that has a higher ceiling, than it's criminal to keep that player inactive on game days. 

Development is not a straight line......Improving in the NFL is not a straight line......and thinking it is, is a fundamental misunderstanding of player development.  Young QBs and young players make a sh-- load of mistakes.  Timing and chemistry are improved OVER TIME, not every time.  

You really think players get better game by game?  When the opponent, the schemes they face, and the playcalling can be drastically different week to week.  Not to mention his mental state or dealing with a nagging injury, subs coming in for injured players, the offensive line having a bad game, the weather.....and a dozen other factors.

A QB improves by preparation, adhering to fundamentals, learning from mistakes, keeping a level emotional state, and the slow growth of familiarity with his skill players.

If QBs "improved" the way your talking, QBs should be perfect by their 3rd year, never making mistakes, and having perfect passer ratings. But they don't because everything in the NFL changes from week to week, defenses adapt and change.  

What happens to young QBs is that when they deviate from their fundamentals due to a number of reasons, their play gets erratic and they make mistakes.....then the confidence can take a hit and they get desperate and the cycle of bad play starts.  When they can put the bad play behind them, and get back to fundamentals, they improve even more.  The problem is that it's a lot harder to regain good habits than it is to develop bad habits.

[NOTW]

2 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

Development is not a straight line......Improving in the NFL is not a straight line......and thinking it is, is a fundamental misunderstanding of player development.  Young QBs and young players make a sh-- load of mistakes.  Timing and chemistry are improved OVER TIME, not every time.  

You really think players get better game by game?  When the opponent, the schemes they face, and the playcalling can be drastically different week to week.  Not to mention his mental state or dealing with a nagging injury, subs coming in for injured players, the offensive line having a bad game, the weather.....and a dozen other factors.

A QB improves by preparation, adhering to fundamentals, learning from mistakes, keeping a level emotional state, and the slow growth of familiarity with his skill players.

If QBs "improved" the way your talking, QBs should be perfect by their 3rd year, never making mistakes, and having perfect passer ratings. But they don't because everything in the NFL changes from week to week, defenses adapt and change.  

What happens to young QBs is that when they deviate from their fundamentals due to a number of reasons, their play gets erratic and they make mistakes.....then the confidence can take a hit and they get desperate and the cycle of bad play starts.  When they can put the bad play behind them, and get back to fundamentals, they improve even more.  The problem is that it's a lot harder to regain good habits than it is to develop bad habits.

I've read your posts for years and you've made this case about developing young QBs repeatedly, and how coaching changes can impact it as well.  I'm curious your take on Hurts right now as you've seen him.  I know he is still developing, and IMO he's shown some good things and some bad like many young QBs.  I know everyone says he has great work ethic and I believe he will do everything to work to get better, and I like his attitude.  But skill wise, do you think he has what it takes to be the long-term answer at QB?  I'm not saying elite, I'm not saying a top 5, just the guy that can be the stable long-term starter to build around and win a championship with?  His decision making and accuracy in particular.  Just interested in your take.  Thanks.

[birdman#12]

25 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I've read your posts for years and you've made this case about developing young QBs repeatedly, and how coaching changes can impact it as well.  I'm curious your take on Hurts right now as you've seen him.  I know he is still developing, and IMO he's shown some good things and some bad like many young QBs.  I know everyone says he has great work ethic and I believe he will do everything to work to get better, and I like his attitude.  But skill wise, do you think he has what it takes to be the long-term answer at QB?  I'm not saying elite, I'm not saying a top 5, just the guy that can be the stable long-term starter to build around and win a championship with?  His decision making and accuracy in particular.  Just interested in your take.  Thanks.

First of all, I don't think Hurts should have started this year......he should have sat, watched, learned and studied film all year.  But that is water under the bridge.

To your point, he has the attitude, the work ethic and the athleticism. And 2 of those things are hard to teach.

But what he's doing now is no surprise to me......and I do think he has the ability to get better.  But he came out of college really raw, and it could take 1-2 years for him to show improvement in all around accuracy and decision making.  He has so many areas that he needs to improve that it takes time and experience to iron them out....and I don't think the eagles front office will be patient enough for him to get thru it.  But these areas that he needs to improve is why he runs so much....besides the designed run plays.  

What is typical of a young QB is going thru his reads slower than needed......think about it, you have 4 seconds or less to look all over for an open receiver, decide to throw and deliver the ball accurately.  Not to mention being able to see the play developing and whether or not to "throw a receiver open"......he has a tendency to throw to the receiver and not to where he going to be.  Bad habits come faster than fixing them.

But to answer your question, given enough time to develop and improve, yes, I think he can be a top 10 QB or better, a really good leader and take a team deep into the playoffs.  I think him being unflappable will really come out in a playoff game.  Consistency is hard to come by.....but I think Hurts could do it given the time.

But again, I believe he is on a one year try out.......I think Roseman will do anything he can to bring in an accomplished veteran or maybe even draft another project QB.  Personally, I would go hire John Defilippo to work with him....His track record as a QB coach is tremendous.  He's coaching in Chicago, but Nagy and his staff will probably get canned at the end of the year, and Defilippo will probably be available.

[Bwestbrook36]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Reagor isn’t 5’11” you’re basically saying it yourself. He’s measured up to that height and it’s still small for a receiver especially one playing on the outside. 

Meh, receivers tend to be from 5'10" to 6'1" range. Reagors height isn't a problem neither is his athletic ability. It's his brain that makes him terrible. 

[NOTW]

8 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

First of all, I don't think Hurts should have started this year......he should have sat, watched, learned and studied film all year.  But that is water under the bridge.

To your point, he has the attitude, the work ethic and the athleticism. And 2 of those things are hard to teach.

But what he's doing now is no surprise to me......and I do think he has the ability to get better.  But he came out of college really raw, and it could take 1-2 years for him to show improvement in all around accuracy and decision making.  He has so many areas that he needs to improve that it takes time and experience to iron them out....and I don't think the eagles front office will be patient enough for him to get thru it.  But these areas that he needs to improve is why he runs so much....besides the designed run plays.  

What is typical of a young QB is going thru his reads slower than needed......think about it, you have 4 seconds or less to look all over for an open receiver, decide to throw and deliver the ball accurately.  Not to mention being able to see the play developing and whether or not to "throw a receiver open"......he has a tendency to throw to the receiver and not to where he going to be.  Bad habits come faster than fixing them.

But to answer your question, given enough time to develop and improve, yes, I think he can be a top 10 QB or better, a really good leader and take a team deep into the playoffs.  I think him being unflappable will really come out in a playoff game.  Consistency is hard to come by.....but I think Hurts could do it given the time.

But again, I believe he is on a one year try out.......I think Roseman will do anything he can to bring in an accomplished veteran or maybe even draft another project QB.  Personally, I would go hire John Defilippo to work with him....His track record as a QB coach is tremendous.  He's coaching in Chicago, but Nagy and his staff will probably get canned at the end of the year, and Defilippo will probably be available.

Thanks.  I agree on his tendencies like a lot of young QBs and the need to improve on making the reads and quick decisions.  I also agree the Eagles won't be patient.  I feel like this year is it, this is his audition to make his case.  I don't know if he'll go after a veteran or draft a QB but I'm not sure he wants to build around Hurts.  Especially with the 3 first round picks, he's going to be too tempted to invest in a QB.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

It would be interesting to see how this poll turns out now.  @downundermike

 

[DawkinsOwnage03]

I now want him to start for the rest of the season so I never have to hear about him again. People are fing delusional to think he is good.

Hurts sucks, Minshew is a joke that fing sucks.

We will be drafting a qb, we are in perfect position to get who we want.

[EazyEaglez]

46 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Meh, receivers tend to be from 5'10" to 6'1" range. Reagors height isn't a problem neither is his athletic ability. It's his brain that makes him terrible. 

Maybe, but when I see him get basically out muscled I’m games I wonder how much of it is his size and how much is it his brain. To me he just doesn’t fight for the football, and in college he could basically out run most, but that not how it is in the NFL. 

[Bwestbrook36]

39 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Maybe, but when I see him get basically out muscled I’m games I wonder how much of it is his size and how much is it his brain. To me he just doesn’t fight for the football, and in college he could basically out run most, but that not how it is in the NFL. 

Well most corners are 5'8" to 5'11" size range and Reagor has a 42" vertical. So there is no reason he can't win those battles other then just not wanting to. He should also be quicker in and out of his cuts when facing a taller corner. On that slant on the fourth and 2 Reagor started fading up the field on that slant allowing the corner to get on top of him. He is just a lazy sheety route runner. He doesn't finish them. 

[NOTW]

7 hours ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

We will be drafting a qb, we are in perfect position to get who we want.

The only issue there is I keep hearing this QB class is weak, but next year's will be better.  Now, people say different things each year that turn out to be wrong so you never know.  All that really matters is getting the right guy.  But if it's true, I don't mind them trading one of the 1sts to move back and collect another 1st in 2023 to have more ammo then to get their guy if that class is better.  

[Talonblood]

Let Hurts complete the season so EVERYONE can see he isn't the answer. Don't cut his season short and leave any doubts. Let the ship burn, so we can then build a new ship in agreement. I already know what I saw Sunday, but let him go down with his ship this year. He needs a miracle, let him go find it, or he is pretty much done. I hope he finds it, but I doubt it after everything I saw previously- and especially Sunday.

[Jeep_man]

10 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Reagor isn’t 5’11” you’re basically saying it yourself. He’s measured up to that height and it’s still small for a receiver especially one playing on the outside. 

When both Reagor and Desean Jackson were on the field together, Reagor looked shorter..

 

This type of stuff is common in the NFL to list players measurables more than what they actually are....

 

Gotta give props on one thing though, Reagor can JUMPPPPPPPP

[Jeep_man]

1 hour ago, Talonblood said:

Let Hurts complete the season so EVERYONE can see he isn't the answer. Don't cut his season short and leave any doubts. Let the ship burn, so we can then build a new ship in agreement. I already know what I saw Sunday, but let him go down with his ship this year. He needs a miracle, let him go find it, or he is pretty much done. I hope he finds it, but I doubt it after everything I saw previously- and especially Sunday.

Best case scenario: We burn the next season as well with Hurts or Minshew, while we load up Defense with next year's 3 first round picks.. The year after next I am sure Eagles will be in a good position to take a franchise QB....

[brkmsn]

13 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Reagor isn’t 5’11” you’re basically saying it yourself. He’s measured up to that height and it’s still small for a receiver especially one playing on the outside. 

Yes. I know. He's about 1/3 of an inch less than 5' 11". But when you round the number, you round up at that point, which is why they list him at 5' 11." 

3 hours ago, Jeep_man said:

When both Reagor and Desean Jackson were on the field together, Reagor looked shorter..

That will always depend on perspective (camera angle and the position of the people). The combine doesn't lie about measurables. 

[brkmsn]

12 hours ago, birdman#12 said:

Development is not a straight line......Improving in the NFL is not a straight line......and thinking it is, is a fundamental misunderstanding of player development.  Young QBs and young players make a sh-- load of mistakes.  Timing and chemistry are improved OVER TIME, not every time.  

You really think players get better game by game?  When the opponent, the schemes they face, and the playcalling can be drastically different week to week.  Not to mention his mental state or dealing with a nagging injury, subs coming in for injured players, the offensive line having a bad game, the weather.....and a dozen other factors.

A QB improves by preparation, adhering to fundamentals, learning from mistakes, keeping a level emotional state, and the slow growth of familiarity with his skill players.

If QBs "improved" the way your talking, QBs should be perfect by their 3rd year, never making mistakes, and having perfect passer ratings. But they don't because everything in the NFL changes from week to week, defenses adapt and change.  

What happens to young QBs is that when they deviate from their fundamentals due to a number of reasons, their play gets erratic and they make mistakes.....then the confidence can take a hit and they get desperate and the cycle of bad play starts.  When they can put the bad play behind them, and get back to fundamentals, they improve even more.  The problem is that it's a lot harder to regain good habits than it is to develop bad habits.

That post you quoted was from 6 weeks ago. I was concerned at the time because we weren't seeing flashes. Since that time, I've seen some flashes that I find encouraging. Of course, the last game was bad, but not something I'd say is unexpected. I was more open to the idea of giving Minshew a look back then than I am at this point. I want to see how Hurts responds after a bad game. I want to see who he targets after some of his receivers had bad games. I want to see if he can get himself on track and also help teammates that are struggling or if he focuses on just a couple players that he trusts and avoids the others. In other words, I want to see what he's learned form mistakes and I want to see how he responds from a leader standpoint. 

I think you misunderstood what I was bothered by.  It wasn't that he wasn't a clearly better player each week. It was because he was struggling with recurring issues. He doesn't have to get better in every area, but he should not have thrown three different 4th down passes "away" without giving anybody a chance to make a play. That's a situational awareness mistake like running out of bounds (Miles Sanders) while attempting to run out the clock. If it happens once --- okay, there's a coachable moment. But when it happens again and then again --- this player isn't demonstrating growth. At that point in the season, I was willing to open the competition up at QB --- at least in practice and see if we're grooming the right guy. But now that the season is 2/3 over and Hurts has shown things that at least I find encouraging, I'm not open to replacing him for an unknown. 

[Uscg-green]

Hurts is going to play hurt because he's terrified of Minshew taking the field. 

[brkmsn]

17 minutes ago, Uscg-green said:

Hurts is going to play hurt because he's terrified of Minshew taking the field. 

I believe what you're saying , as I understand it around here, is Hurts is "mentally soft."

[The Blackfish]

 Currently, normal stats like Comp%, Yards, and TD’s, Hurts is fairly equal to Baker Mayfield, although he’s played one less game. Only Baker and Wentz have Comp %’s below 64% that also have .500 records, both are 62%. Hurts is at 60%. 
 Tua, Jones and Murray are all sitting around 70%, and that’s with Tua being near 80% in 4 straight weeks.     
  The Eagles aren’t failing Hurts, well other than Reagor, btw, it seems lots of fans have forgotten that a Giants DB, dropped an easy interception before Reagors 2nd drop.    
 Also, like the Bucs, and Raiders, the Giants didn’t have their best DB’s, and last week was still a disaster.  Howie and Jeff know all the stats, so unless he improves significantly over the final weeks, he will not be the starting QB for the Eagles next season.  This weeks game should be a good one for Hurts, his numbers should be similar to those he put up against Atlanta, the Jets are awful, especially defensively.  

[Swoop]

While I can't speak for everyone, people know that the majority of us dont view Minshew as the franchise for the next decade, right?

[Bwestbrook36]

1 hour ago, Swoop said:

While I can't speak for everyone, people know that the majority of us dont view Minshew as the franchise for the next decade, right?

I'm for exploring all options, especially when the person playing ahead of someone else isn't playing head and shoulders above everyone else. I don't believe Howie and Lurie are sold on Hurts, so might as well see what the other guy has

[Swoop]

21 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I'm for exploring all options, especially when the person playing ahead of someone else isn't playing head and shoulders above everyone else. I don't believe Howie and Lurie are sold on Hurts, so might as well see what the other guy has

That's where I'm at. I would just like to see how the offense runs with a better QB. Obviously he's not the runner Hurts is, but he's a better passer. Neither are a solution long term.