****OFFICIAL SOCCER THREAD****

[toolg]

I think I am the minority, but I think Super League would have been a whole lot of fun. Oh well.

[DaEagles4Life]

 

 

[UK Eagle]

6 hours ago, TEW said:

Strongly disagree with this. Perez had an interview yesterday and touched on this. One of the problems with UEFA is the lack of transparency and regulatory clout. FFP is a joke and there is zero accountability for breaking rules.

Part of the ESL is going to involve trying to fix this. They’re basically taking the US sports model and modifying it. I don’t think they’ll ever have a hard salary cap or anything like it, but they’re moving more towards that direction precisely because the clubs all agreed on the instability of the financial situation.

I think you’ll see FFP type rules with actual teeth, more financial transparency, and stricter rules to be a part of the ESL.

Perez talking about FFP is a hoot.  They would change the rules to suit the moment and circumstances; I don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth.

Now.  Football desperately needs to get it's own house in order.  Firstly, it needs to deal with what has become of agents and middle men and put sole responsibility for payment onto the players themselves. No club should pay agents or middle men for anything.  Ever. FIFA has allowed a system that is far too opaque and the likes of Mino Raiola abuse it.

Secondly,  I would mandate clubs can only have academies of certain sizes and players at that level can only earn a maximum salary.  No more paying 17 year old kids large salaries or using familial enhancements to get players to move.  I would prohibit players moving abroad under any circumstances until they are 17 - too many clubs deep sea trawl for talent and do an appalling job of supporting those who aren't good enough.  The scrap heap of young men at 18 with a poor education is too many.

Then I would move to FFP and the subject of debt.  UEFAs FFP was a ****-handed attempt from other large clubs to stop the likes of Man City and PSG from gate crashing the club.  True FFP needs a debate; one that suits a system that can be driven from the back seat.  The question of Owners funding clubs is a tricky one. When is a debt a debt?

Moving onto FIFA and UEFA. Their houses need drastic and deep reform, and the first thing I want to see is where the hell the money has gone from each tournament, etc.  They also need to agree a framework of how leagues can operate, and further, how clubs can be owned by others.  Player welfare should be reviewed to reduce the games players play in different tournaments, and as such, reduce the frippery tournaments that serve naff all purpose.

I can go on.

One thing football needs to remember is the fans are the special sauce. Without us, football is nothing.

[TEW]

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

Yeah I knew you'd reply that way.  Yes and one that roundly got rejected by the market.

Eh, not exactly roundly. They had billions of underwriting lined up and a dozen of the biggest teams in the world committed to a LOI.

It will happen eventually if EUFA doesn’t get its ish together. 

[DrPhilly]

1 minute ago, TEW said:

Eh, not exactly roundly. They had billions of underwriting lined up and a dozen of the biggest teams in the world committed to a LOI.

It will happen eventually if EUFA doesn’t get its ish together. 

Well you can use whatever term you like but the league survived all of about 24hrs

[TEW]

43 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

Perez talking about FFP is a hoot.  They would change the rules to suit the moment and circumstances; I don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth.

Now.  Football desperately needs to get it's own house in order.  Firstly, it needs to deal with what has become of agents and middle men and put sole responsibility for payment onto the players themselves. No club should pay agents or middle men for anything.  Ever. FIFA has allowed a system that is far too opaque and the likes of Mino Raiola abuse it.

Secondly,  I would mandate clubs can only have academies of certain sizes and players at that level can only earn a maximum salary.  No more paying 17 year old kids large salaries or using familial enhancements to get players to move.  I would prohibit players moving abroad under any circumstances until they are 17 - too many clubs deep sea trawl for talent and do an appalling job of supporting those who aren't good enough.  The scrap heap of young men at 18 with a poor education is too many.

Then I would move to FFP and the subject of debt.  UEFAs FFP was a ****-handed attempt from other large clubs to stop the likes of Man City and PSG from gate crashing the club.  True FFP needs a debate; one that suits a system that can be driven from the back seat.  The question of Owners funding clubs is a tricky one. When is a debt a debt?

Moving onto FIFA and UEFA. Their houses need drastic and deep reform, and the first thing I want to see is where the hell the money has gone from each tournament, etc.  They also need to agree a framework of how leagues can operate, and further, how clubs can be owned by others.  Player welfare should be reviewed to reduce the games players play in different tournaments, and as such, reduce the frippery tournaments that serve naff all purpose.

I can go on.

One thing football needs to remember is the fans are the special sauce. Without us, football is nothing.

Huh?

Madrid operate purely from footballing income, unlike so many EPL teams. People don’t like Perez because of what he’s able to do, not because he’s a cheat. He’s probably the greatest footballing chair of all time.

On agents and middlemen: the ESL actually attempted to solve this. It won’t happen under EUFA, ECA, or FIFA. 

On youth setups and pay: ok, now you are denying kids life changing wealth and opportunity because of their age. This is silly. There are plenty of teenagers who are worth the money.

Good luck with FFP or reforming FIFA and EUFA without the ESL. It’s not going to happen in any substantial form. Soccer is too corrupt, which was a large component of why the ESL was being formed.

This was an actual attempt at a body uncorrupted by footballing grifters and bureaucrats. They’re going to continue to be corrupt because they have no competition. The ESL was their competition. The "fans” who hate corruption just ensured their favorite sport’s corruption. Bravo fans!  

[TEW]

11 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Well you can use whatever term you like but the league survived all of about 24hrs

Pretty sure the Spanish and Italian teams are still in it, as is Tottenham and Arsenal, and PSG will be joining as soon as the World Cup is over.

Is it dead yet? No. Certainly on the brink, but, don’t underestimate uncle Flo. 

[DaEagles4Life]

Your love of RM like undying love for RM clouds your judgement at times. 

Calling someone the greatest chairman of all time after his league, because you called it his idea, absolutely flopped after 48 hours isn't exactly stellar evidence. 

[DaEagles4Life]

Just now, TEW said:

Pretty sure the Spanish and Italian teams are still in it, as is Tottenham and Arsenal, and PSG will be joining as soon as the World Cup is over.

Is it dead yet? No. Certainly on the brink, but, don’t underestimate uncle Flo. 

Atletico Madrid has pulled out. 

Ohhhhh Tottenham who gives a F about them. 

[DrPhilly]

All English clubs have pulled out

[TEW]

Just now, DaEagles4Life said:

Your love of RM like undying love for RM clouds your judgement at times. 

Calling someone the greatest chairman of all time after his league, because you called it his idea, absolutely flopped after 48 hours isn't exactly stellar evidence. 

He’s won the ECL and La Liga with like 5 different coaches. Took Madrid from the brink of financial ruin into the biggest club in the world. Revolutionized the transfer market. Rebuilt the Bernabue. He could retire today and no one, save perhaps Bernabue himself, could come close.

[TEW]

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

All English clubs have pulled out

Ok, so the bottom half of the league is gone. For now. 

[TEW]

4 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Atletico Madrid has pulled out. 

Ohhhhh Tottenham who gives a F about them. 

You sure?

 

[Dave Moss]

I really enjoyed the Super League while it lasted.

 

[DaEagles4Life]

26 minutes ago, TEW said:

You sure?

 

Oh I am sure 

 

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

11 hours ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Woodward out is the first step. 

But if this is true, F yes!! 

The ESL was good for something!

[Cochis_Calhoun]

18 hours ago, TEW said:

Strongly disagree with this. Perez had an interview yesterday and touched on this. One of the problems with UEFA is the lack of transparency and regulatory clout. FFP is a joke and there is zero accountability for breaking rules.

Part of the ESL is going to involve trying to fix this. They’re basically taking the US sports model and modifying it. I don’t think they’ll ever have a hard salary cap or anything like it, but they’re moving more towards that direction precisely because the clubs all agreed on the instability of the financial situation.

I think you’ll see FFP type rules with actual teeth, more financial transparency, and stricter rules to be a part of the ESL.

Perez  and Madrid were screwing the rest of Europe on finances long before FFP were brought in, the fees and wages inflation were driven by Madrid and the Galactico's policy in the late 90's early 2000's, they've blatantly overspent their means for 2 decades but it was overlooked by UEFA because they're old money and underwritten by the Spanish establishment. The oil clubs coming in since 2010 is just the natural end point of what he started. Transparent enforcement of FFP rules would've seen Madrid (and probably Barca since the home grown talent dried up) suspended from European competition along with Manchester City and PSG, instead the system catches Eastern European minnows spending a million over here and there and comes down like Thor's hammer. Perez doesn't want transparent FFP, he just wants the rules to stop City and PSG beating him at his own rigged game.

I support Manchester United, have lived and worked over here on and off since the mid eighties, the only reason they need more money is because the Glazer's have sucked £800million out of the club since putting them in debt with a takeover they didn't pony up a red cent for

Sky TV in the UK moaning about Super League being immoral, when they owe their entire existence to the UK's big clubs saying screw you to the established league and selling the TV rights to Rupert Murdoch in a bent auction where he knew the exact value of the competing bid, that was where a stand needed to be made to stop greed in football if England was serious about it.

The outrage about football finances at grassroots level is confected holier than thou horseshit, the reason the so many football league clubs in the UK are in so much trouble is because clubs that get are lucky to get two or three thousand paying fans a week are trying to run a full squad of professional footballers paid an average of £1000 a week, and that isn't sustainable, regardless of whether the top clubs are in a super league or not, you can run a football club as a business within it's means and hope to succeed through coaching and talent spotting or you can spend money you haven't got chasing a unicorn but you can't do both.

[UK Eagle]

14 hours ago, TEW said:

Huh?

Madrid operate purely from footballing income, unlike so many EPL teams. People don’t like Perez because of what he’s able to do, not because he’s a cheat. He’s probably the greatest footballing chair of all time.

On agents and middlemen: the ESL actually attempted to solve this. It won’t happen under EUFA, ECA, or FIFA. 

On youth setups and pay: ok, now you are denying kids life changing wealth and opportunity because of their age. This is silly. There are plenty of teenagers who are worth the money.

Good luck with FFP or reforming FIFA and EUFA without the ESL. It’s not going to happen in any substantial form. Soccer is too corrupt, which was a large component of why the ESL was being formed.

This was an actual attempt at a body uncorrupted by footballing grifters and bureaucrats. They’re going to continue to be corrupt because they have no competition. The ESL was their competition. The "fans” who hate corruption just ensured their favorite sport’s corruption. Bravo fans!  

Real Madrid Footballing income..... 

https://www.theversed.com/32754/real-madrids-success-was-expensed-by-the-spanish-government/#.MjFUDYfIAX

Nope, just losses and vast spending like others.  A very comfortable 900m gross debt pile (https://www.sport.es/en/news/real-madrid/real-madrids-gross-debt-rises-to-901-million-around-200m-less-than-barca-11480264). Some footballing income 🤣. They are stinking broke. Perez is Imelda Marcos with an unlimited credit card who rather than cut his spending, just wants to find more.

Young players are treated like cattle - with my own eyes, I've seen what the EPL academy system doesn't do and how clubs like mine take the chance to do that job to develop them (and sell them on).   Read this:

• https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/06/football-biggest-issue-boys-rejected-academies  
• https://mancunion.com/2020/02/20/opinion-the-issue-with-british-football-academies/

Young men captured in an elite system, unprepared and uneducated at the moment they leave.  Yeah, you were at Chelsea's academy and earned £5k a week, but if that's all you do, it won't last long.  But people such as yourself don't see the bigger picture.

The ESL was formed for money purposes, the rest of the talk is there show they are virtuous and dupe the naive into thinking it's a good idea - you bought that claptrap? I have a bridge to sell you  in that case😉.

If they cared, they'd be pushing the reforms yesterday in the system that exists; they just wanted to financially double dip into the current pool and have another one there too because they can't bully the system they are in.  

People like me have been carping on for years about how broken football is, but we were always told, don't be silly, it's ok etc.  I hope now is the watershed moment

[TEW]

4 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Perez  and Madrid were screwing the rest of Europe on finances long before FFP were brought in, the fees and wages inflation were driven by Madrid and the Galactico's policy in the late 90's early 2000's, they've blatantly overspent their means for 2 decades but it was overlooked by UEFA because they're old money and underwritten by the Spanish establishment. The oil clubs coming in since 2010 is just the natural end point of what he started. Transparent enforcement of FFP rules would've seen Madrid (and probably Barca since the home grown talent dried up) suspended from European competition along with Manchester City and PSG, instead the system catches Eastern European minnows spending a million over here and there and comes down like Thor's hammer. Perez doesn't want transparent FFP, he just wants the rules to stop City and PSG beating him at his own rigged game.

I support Manchester United, have lived and worked over here on and off since the mid eighties, the only reason they need more money is because the Glazer's have sucked £800million out of the club since putting them in debt with a takeover they didn't pony up a red cent for

Sky TV in the UK moaning about Super League being immoral, when they owe their entire existence to the UK's big clubs saying screw you to the established league and selling the TV rights to Rupert Murdoch in a bent auction where he knew the exact value of the competing bid, that was where a stand needed to be made to stop greed in football if England was serious about it.

The outrage about football finances at grassroots level is confected holier than thou horseshit, the reason the so many football league clubs in the UK are in so much trouble is because clubs that get are lucky to get two or three thousand paying fans a week are trying to run a full squad of professional footballers paid an average of £1000 a week, and that isn't sustainable, regardless of whether the top clubs are in a super league or not, you can run a football club as a business within it's means and hope to succeed through coaching and talent spotting or you can spend money you haven't got chasing a unicorn but you can't do both.

This is just false. Madrid did not "overspend their means” in the slightest under Perez.

Perez was the savior, not the culprit, of Madrid’s finances. They were in financial shambles when he took over. He used actual footballing revenue, not state backed oil money, for the galactico policy. He sold off team assets to pay down the debt that threatened the club.

Madrid’s finances are public information because they are a socio owned club. They don’t violate FFP. You’re just wrong on this.

[DrPhilly]

So where do we stand?  I see four clubs left, Real/Barce/Juve/Milan and a suspended league.

A colossal fail for Perez and by extension Real with the "B players" Fenway and Glazers right behind.

 

edit: I see Juve and Milan have also dropped out.  Down to two.  Perhaps a weekly El Clasico with a couple week's off each summer.  Best of 45 for the grand poobah trophy annually.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

25 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

So where do we stand?  I see four clubs left, Real/Barce/Juve/Milan and a suspended league.

Where we stand is that this has massively fallen apart for the money grabbers.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

5 hours ago, TEW said:

This is just false. Madrid did not "overspend their means” in the slightest under Perez.

Perez was the savior, not the culprit, of Madrid’s finances. They were in financial shambles when he took over. He used actual footballing revenue, not state backed oil money, for the galactico policy. He sold off team assets to pay down the debt that threatened the club.

Madrid’s finances are public information because they are a socio owned club. They don’t violate FFP. You’re just wrong on this.

This is nonsense, they were actually a fortune in debt and bailed out by Madrid Council in a land deal so convoluted and crooked it was investigated by both the EU and UEFA and Madrid were ordered to pay back some of the money as it was found to constitute state aid. Among the highlights of the deal was the council awarding the club a parcel of land it didn't actually own in lieu of a debt, writing off fines for planning and zoning violations, revaluing land for debt purposes some 5400% higher than it had been valued at a decade previously and finally deciding it somehow still owed Madrid money for an old property deal and giving them the land they needed to renovate their stadium for free to pay it off. 

Madrid have been struggling to 'officially' meet FFP for years having to raise 84million in January 2020 to comply, they were probably only saved this time because the assessment period has been extended to the end of 2021 season. PSG and City wouldn't have a problem with FFP if everyone was treated the same as them but they aren't

[UK_EaglesFan89]

10 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Madrid have been struggling to 'officially' meet FFP for years having to raise 84million in January 2020 to comply, they were probably only saved this time because the assessment period has been extended to the end of 2021 season. PSG and City wouldn't have a problem with FFP if everyone was treated the same as them but they aren't

None of the top clubs are really subjected to FFP and that's why the whole thing is just such a joke. They don't want to punish the likes of city and Real because they are the big clubs with the deep pockets. FFP is a joke. 

[toolg]

20 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

So where do we stand?

A colossal fail for Perez and by extension Real with the "B players" Fenway and Glazers right behind.

Yeah. The Super League proposal has collapsed.

How did they not expect the pushback from fans and UEFA/FIFA? They should have called the bluff: taken their teams and players, staged their own matches, tournaments, World Cup, etc. outside FIFA... It could be two competing formats, Super League vs. FIFA domestic leagues/tournaments, etc. The Super League teams already have many of the best players, they would have pulled the rug out from under corrupt FIFA. Because they weren't prepared to go it alone, they wanted it both ways: to play by their own rules and dominate FIFA competition; they failed.

[DaEagles4Life]

2 hours ago, toolg said:

Yeah. The Super League proposal has collapsed.

How did they not expect the pushback from fans and UEFA/FIFA? They should have called the bluff: taken their teams and players, staged their own matches, tournaments, World Cup, etc. outside FIFA... It could be two competing formats, Super League vs. FIFA domestic leagues/tournaments, etc. The Super League teams already have many of the best players, they would have pulled the rug out from under corrupt FIFA. Because they weren't prepared to go it alone, they wanted it both ways: to play by their own rules and dominate FIFA competition; they failed.

So you wanted those teams to stop playing in La Liga, EPL, and Serie A?