toolg Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Just now, DaEagles4Life said: So you wanted those teams to stop playing in La Liga, EPL, and Serie A? Yep. Why not? These teams typically find themselves at or near the top of the domestic league table anyway. Why waste time playing Eibar, Sheffield, or Crotone? We could have weeks of Real Madrid v. Manchester City, Barcelona v. Juve, etc. I am also an ignorant American in this debate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaEagles4Life Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 53 minutes ago, toolg said: Yep. Why not? These teams typically find themselves at or near the top of the domestic league table anyway. Why waste time playing Eibar, Sheffield, or Crotone? We could have weeks of Real Madrid v. Manchester City, Barcelona v. Juve, etc. I am also an ignorant American in this debate. Because in 2016 Leicester City won the Premier League. Leicester is also 3rd in the PL table this year with West Ham at 5th. Tottenham, Liverpool, and Arsenal who were in this new league are 6th, 7th, and 9th as of today. The Top 4 only get to go to the Champions League each year, but this new league picked and choose who would be in it. This year, clearly teams that were not deserving and bypassing competition for those spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolg Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said: Because in 2016 Leicester City won the Premier League. Leicester is also 3rd in the PL table this year with West Ham at 5th. Tottenham, Liverpool, and Arsenal who were in this new league are 6th, 7th, and 9th as of today. The Top 4 only get to go to the Champions League each year, but this new league picked and choose who would be in it. This year, clearly teams that were not deserving and bypassing competition for those spots. Leicester City was a good story. I rooted for them over the big clubs back in 2016. They can dominate what's left of EPL. Fine with me. My argument is Super League should have gone full rogue. Get kicked out of UEFA, then they can start their own competition on their own terms. Not try a hostile takeover of Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaEagles4Life Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 37 minutes ago, toolg said: Leicester City was a good story. I rooted for them over the big clubs back in 2016. They can dominate what's left of EPL. Fine with me. My argument is Super League should have gone full rogue. Get kicked out of UEFA, then they can start their own competition on their own terms. Not try a hostile takeover of Champions League. You do understand in 2009, Leicester City was in the third tier soccer division and in the following 7 years they won the PL. That story is unbelievable and that type of soccer history is done, over, if a few clubs want to take their ball and run. With a few of those clubs in England doing absolutely nothing in the last decade. I will wager you were not even born the last time Tottenham won a Premier League title, but somehow they were invited. I will guess has something to do with that new stadium they just built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolg Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 24 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said: I will wager you were not even born the last time Tottenham won a Premier League title, but somehow they were invited. I will guess has something to do with that new stadium they just built. It absolutely has everything to do with the shiny new stadium and money. You pay to play Super League. There could be expansion teams in New York, LA, Tokyo, Hong Kong... Again, I'm the ignorant American over here. This kind of league makes sense to me. That's how it's done on this side of the pond. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaEagles4Life Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 43 minutes ago, toolg said: It absolutely has everything to do with the shiny new stadium and money. You pay to play Super League. There could be expansion teams in New York, LA, Tokyo, Hong Kong... Again, I'm the ignorant American over here. This kind of league makes sense to me. That's how it's done on this side of the pond. Expansion teams?! Stop Heritage, tradition, actually mean something over the pond and to those teams, players and fans. US is just all about money. These 12 teams took their ball, ran, and said F competing for a top 4 spot to represent their league. Not to mention seeing these teams play each other over and over would become stale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolg Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said: Expansion teams?! Stop Heritage, tradition, actually mean something over the pond and to those teams, players and fans. US is just all about money. These 12 teams took their ball, ran, and said F competing for a top 4 spot to represent their league. Not to mention seeing these teams play each other over and over would become stale. Agreed. This is why the Super League proposal failed. While it would appeal to a fair weather fan like me, only interested in seeing the best in the world play each other... It would require each team to operate in a manner different than what they are used to. Forget traditions, domestic trophies, etc. They aren’t prepared to leave that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPhilly Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 2 hours ago, toolg said: It absolutely has everything to do with the shiny new stadium and money. You pay to play Super League. There could be expansion teams in New York, LA, Tokyo, Hong Kong... Again, I'm the ignorant American over here. This kind of league makes sense to me. That's how it's done on this side of the pond. The better US example is found in college. This would be like taking the top 12 teams in college football out of their leagues and putting them in a new league and where they'd only play each other forever going forward. So for example Michigan would be in the top 12 but not Mich St and they'd never play each other again. Oklahoma would make it but not Texas and they'd never meet again. Same for USC (in) and UCLA (out). Alabama and Tennessee. etc. etc. I don't think the fan bases would be too happy about that. Plus you'd take away any chance of having an underdog break thru and win it in any given year. Also, if a super college football league had been put in place 10 years back Clemson would not have been in it and none of their success over the last several years would have occurred. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Moss Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 34 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: The better US example is found in college. This would be like taking the top 12 teams in college football out of their leagues and putting them in a new league and where they'd only play each other forever going forward. So for example Michigan would be in the top 12 but not Mich St and they'd never play each other again. Oklahoma would make it but not Texas and they'd never meet again. Same for USC (in) and UCLA (out). Alabama and Tennessee. etc. etc. I don't think the fan bases would be too happy about that. Plus you'd take away any chance of having an underdog break thru and win it in any given year. Also, if a super college football league had been put in place 10 years back Clemson would not have been in it and none of their success over the last several years would have occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 3 hours ago, DaEagles4Life said: Expansion teams?! Stop Heritage, tradition, actually mean something over the pond and to those teams, players and fans. US is just all about money. These 12 teams took their ball, ran, and said F competing for a top 4 spot to represent their league. Not to mention seeing these teams play each other over and over would become stale. Agreed that history and tradition exist in a different way in Europe than the US. Way more politics to it, neighborhoods, etc. But your second paragraph I disagree with. The 5th best team in the big 5 leagues are better than the best teams in most other leagues. So let’s not pretend this is about actual merit and competition. Does watching US sports get stale? No. They’re all enormously popular without a relegation system. And let’s be real — it’s mostly the same teams anyway. Sure Porto or Ajax might randomly advance to the semis once a decade, but for the most part it’s exactly the same teams you’d expect late in the brackets, and it’s still awesome. Hell, hasn’t Madrid made the final 4 in something like 8 of the last 10 champions leagues? They play the villain for the rest of the world just like the Yankees or Pats. Yet no one gets tired of watching the Yankees or Pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Guinness Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 On 4/22/2021 at 6:46 PM, Dave Moss said: At least 4 of those schools haven't been in the top 15 of winning percentage (through 2019) over the last 10 seasons: Texas, Auburn, Miami and Penn State. Texas and Miami especially haven't really done much for years while schools like Oregon and Wisconsin are in the top 15 of win % the last decade. But I get that some of these schools are a big draw with big stadiums and huge loyal following. I could see a 24 team (4 divisions of 6 schools) Super Conference that more reflects the NFL than the current NCAA system. IMO, the NCAA playoffs should be 16 schools as the lower divisions do it and it would sort of be like March Madness, but on a football scale. Americans love the underdog, the Cinderella Story, so to give 1-2 schools a shot in a 16 school bracket would be TV gold. A missed opportunity by the NCAA, IMO. Right now the NCAA (for football) is like the big footy clubs of Europe where the top 4-6 clubs wants to keep power and are usually in the mix for the League Title or the CL. Even now and then an outsider comes along to try and crash the party. And that's what drums up interest more than watching the usual giants slug it out. Eventually a Super League wouldn't have been so super and would have slowly morphed into just another league with those that rise to the top more consistently and those that dwell in mediocrity either at mid or bottom of the table. Might have taken 5, 7 or 10 years, but it would have happened eventually. Unless they were willing to adopt the US/NFL model of a salary cap for a level playing field in terms of players/talent and revenue sharing, but that's not what the big clubs of Europe want. As an LFC supporter, I recall when the club was up for sale and before FSG came in quietly in nearly the 11th hour that Kraft (yeah, Mr. Stroke Master of the hated Patriots) looked into buying the club, but balked due to the lack of a salary cap or any restrictions on spending for players. Even FSG tried using the Moneyball philosophy at first and when that didn't produce desired results they started spending (we did pay the most for a CB in VdV and keeper in Allison) to strengthen the club and wow, we won the CL and our first ever EPL Title. So the philosophies across the pond are different. The NFL is the #1 money generating pro league in the World and they aren't nearly as global as soccer so they are clearly doing something right and their model works. To own an NFL franchise is basically a license to print money even if you're the J, E, T, S.....Jets. Some franchises generate more revenue than others in terms of ticket and merchandise sales, so either being a consistent winner or having a kick ass marketing department (or superstar player) is very helpful. Example, the ghey Cowgirls haven't won ish since 1996 yet are one of the top valued franchises in the NFL (which, unfortunately, shows how many dumb 'Mericans there are). A Super League with the European mentality wouldn't have worked over the long term. There are US owners, but I imagine they would have had a hard time convincing the other owners to do things the US way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaEagles4Life Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPhilly Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 My West Ham buddy is hoping the big 6 are all docked points and given large fees to pay. I've been telling him it will be a fine and no xfer window. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: My West Ham buddy is hoping the big 6 are all docked points and given large fees to pay. I've been telling him it will be a fine and no xfer window. Thoughts? I think it'll be a fine and to be honest I think it should be a hefty fine. This whole thing was about money so punish the owners by hitting them in their pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPhilly Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 49 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: I think it'll be a fine and to be honest I think it should be a hefty fine. This whole thing was about money so punish the owners by hitting them in their pockets. Has to be a huge one to impact these guys. I think the lack of xfer windows hurts them more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted April 25, 2021 Author Share Posted April 25, 2021 1 hour ago, DrPhilly said: Has to be a huge one to impact these guys. I think the lack of xfer windows hurts them more. What legal mechanism is there to fine them? They’re going to get fined by ESL too, in the hundreds of millions. Fine + Xfer window probably pushes them back into the ESL. Of note, no team has legally left the ESL yet. They are all still legally obligated to join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPhilly Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, TEW said: What legal mechanism is there to fine them? They’re going to get fined by ESL too, in the hundreds of millions. Fine + Xfer window probably pushes them back into the ESL. Of note, no team has legally left the ESL yet. They are all still legally obligated to join. Prem has rules that can be argued were violated. I haven’t researched it myself but I saw some reference to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted April 25, 2021 Author Share Posted April 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Prem has rules that can be argued were violated. I haven’t researched it myself but I saw some reference to that effect. Just speculation on my part, but I think the EPL would lose in court. Euro countries have no anti-trust exception for sports. Pretty sure this would be seen as monopolistic behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 5 hours ago, DrPhilly said: Has to be a huge one to impact these guys. I think the lack of xfer windows hurts them more. But the xfer window hurts the players and the fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPhilly Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 16 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: But the xfer window hurts the players and the fans... Oh well. Owners play stupid games and fans/players get stupid prizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 1 hour ago, DrPhilly said: Oh well. Owners play stupid games and fans/players get stupid prizes. Yeah I mean I get what you're saying I just think it would be unfair. I think hefty hefty fines for the owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPhilly Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: Yeah I mean I get what you're saying I just think it would be unfair. I think hefty hefty fines for the owners. Maybe so but it is what is is. I'm a Chelsea fan and I've just suffered thru a couple of no activity xfer windows so I totally understand but a little ole fine isn't going to hurt these guys unless you're talking about say $100M or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Just now, DrPhilly said: Maybe so but it is what is is. I'm a Chelsea fan and I've just suffered thru a couple of no activity xfer windows so I totally understand but a little ole fine isn't going to hurt these guys unless you're talking about say $100M or more. I said hefty so I'm not talking about a few quid. I'm talking huge fines, the kind not seen before in soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPhilly Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Just now, UK_EaglesFan89 said: I said hefty so I'm not talking about a few quid. I'm talking huge fines, the kind not seen before in soccer. I'll believe it when I see it. Also, if the fine is big enough it will hurt the fans and players as the club won't be able to pay the salaries or the xfer fees. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 1 minute ago, DrPhilly said: I'll believe it when I see it. Also, if the fine is big enough it will hurt the fans and players as the club won't be able to pay the salaries or the xfer fees. That's very true. It's a difficult one. Perhaps these owners should just be forced to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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