Between the bullpen and our hitting I’m not sure what’s worse. I’d throw in our manager not removing Nola a batter before

43 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Credit to Nola he could’ve unraveled partially fortunate soto’s ball went foul but he isn’t the reason they are losing this game. We suck at hitting. Particularly against megill

Nola was not good, he got really lucky

2 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Nola was not good, he got really lucky

Nola wasn’t great but still he had given up 2 thru 6.1. The issue is we can’t hit worth crap and our our bullpen blows. Plus Thomson is a moron who didn’t take nola out a batter sooner so Ruiz didn’t have to potentially face lindor

Big 6 run inning coming up

10 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Big 6 run inning coming up

Heard this (IMO) absurd talk on WIP about moving Painter to the pen as our bullpen help. I hate this for several reasons.

1. I think everyone would universally agree that, at some point, a team becomes close enough to contending for a title that it is worth mortgaging or altering the future to incrementally improve and "go get it." Everyone agrees with that. BUT...I would argue the Phillies are no longer close enough to contending that it would be worth throwing a second wrench into Painter's development and turning him into a bullpen arm this year.

2. Right now, the good part of the rotation is Wheeler/Sanchez/Luzardo. I'm a Ranger fan, but we don't know what we are getting from him health-wise in the immediate future and he's going to walk next year anyway. And Nola may well be washed. We need Painter in the rotation...sooner rather than later, not in the pen. As bad as the bullpen is, we need Painter to ensure the rotation isn't a problem.

3. Let's cut the BS about the non-Painter prospects in the farm. If you want to add to the pen, use them. There are no sure-fire studs. Don't mess with the one blue chip guy we have. Would you trade Painter for the best reliever in baseball? No. You would not. So don't turn Painter into one. Trade literally anyone else in the system for your bullpen help if you have to.

4. Speaking of trading for bullpen help. Ranger is going to pitch this year and figures to pitch pretty well. Nola is going to level out a bit. At the deadline...one or both of these guys for someone who is already pigeon-holed as an effective reliever to a team looking for rotation help...that's a move I'd love to make.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

Heard this (IMO) absurd talk on WIP about moving Painter to the pen as our bullpen help. I hate this for several reasons.

1. I think everyone would universally agree that, at some point, a team becomes close enough to contending for a title that it is worth mortgaging or altering the future to incrementally improve and "go get it." Everyone agrees with that. BUT...I would argue the Phillies are no longer close enough to contending that it would be worth throwing a second wrench into Painter's development and turning him into a bullpen arm this year.

2. Right now, the good part of the rotation is Wheeler/Sanchez/Luzardo. I'm a Ranger fan, but we don't know what we are getting from him health-wise in the immediate future and he's going to walk next year anyway. And Nola may well be washed. We need Painter in the rotation...sooner rather than later, not in the pen. As bad as the bullpen is, we need Painter to ensure the rotation isn't a problem.

3. Let's cut the BS about the non-Painter prospects in the farm. If you want to add to the pen, use them. There are no sure-fire studs. Don't mess with the one blue chip guy we have. Would you trade Painter for the best reliever in baseball? No. You would not. So don't turn Painter into one. Trade literally anyone else in the system for your bullpen help if you have to.

4. Speaking of trading for bullpen help. Ranger is going to pitch this year and figures to pitch pretty well. Nola is going to level out a bit. At the deadline...one or both of these guys for someone who is already pigeon-holed as an effective reliever to a team looking for rotation help...that's a move I'd love to make.

If Nola can actually get himself pitching well I’d look to deal him for BP help. Have luzardo, Ranger and painter with Sanchez and wheeler. Use the money you save getting off Nola’s contract to extend luzardo and try to get a reasonable deal done with Ranger so he can be your 5th after wheeler, luzardo, Sanchez and painter in 2026

14 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Big 6 run inning coming up

6-2

Stott has been awesome in the leadoff spot. Too bad we Fed up earlier in the game not scoring

Just now, Joe Shades 73 said:

What I meant to say was 4 runs and the so called showman coming up small

9 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Shocking

Feel Like stott got a ton of confidence being moved up to leadoff. I still think he has a good chance to be a good 2b. Frankly think he’s here longer than Bohm and marsh (duh)

Looks like the offense is just looking forward to having Thursday off and already checked out for the week. Thomson leaves the starter in too long again, shocker. Bullpen sucks, shocker. Kevin Long keeps getting brought back every year but they swing at everything outside the zone. 13Ks on the night, pathetic. JT sucks with RISP. Let me know if I'm missing anything.

9 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

If Nola can actually get himself pitching well I’d look to deal him for BP help. Have luzardo, Ranger and painter with Sanchez and wheeler. Use the money you save getting off Nola’s contract to extend luzardo and try to get a reasonable deal done with Ranger so he can be your 5th after wheeler, luzardo, Sanchez and painter in 2026

Here's the question- if you were a GM, would you trade for Aaron Nola? Not only are you trading for him, youre taking that abomination of a contract as well. The Phils would have to eat half just to make it somewhat appealing for a team. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it but not gonna hold my breath.

3 hours ago, John Blutarski said:

Looks like the offense is just looking forward to having Thursday off and already checked out for the week. Thomson leaves the starter in too long again, shocker. Bullpen sucks, shocker. Kevin Long keeps getting brought back every year but they swing at everything outside the zone. 13Ks on the night, pathetic. JT sucks with RISP. Let me know if I'm missing anything.

I'm no Thomson supporter, but to be fair, he was screwed no matter what he did. Ruiz was the guy going in so either have Nola start the inning where Ruiz imploded for the umpteenth time, or start Ruiz for the 7th and just watch him implode from the get go. It was basically a sh#t sandwich. That is on Dombrowski.

2 hours ago, vsptroops said:

Here's the question- if you were a GM, would you trade for Aaron Nola? Not only are you trading for him, youre taking that abomination of a contract as well. The Phils would have to eat half just to make it somewhat appealing for a team. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it but not gonna hold my breath.

Depends on how desperate the team is for starting pitching. But any chance on dealing him goes to if Nola begins to actually pitch closer to what he was 2022 and 2024 where his era was under 4. If he’s pitching like a no. 2 from now til the deadline i think you could make the move especially if you are just getting a BP arm. The money is a major issue right now as he’s pitching with a 6+ ERA. If he manages to right the ship i do think you can find a team that wants to go all in that isn’t hurting in the pen. Then again i don’t think you are getting a great bullpen arm just someone who’s better than what they currently have for most of their pen.

Tip of the cap

I respect Nola’s career here. Unless I’m missing someone, he’s inarguably the best Phillies’ draft pick and farm product since Ryan Howard, nearly a 1/4 century ago in 2001. (Which is actually really, really sad…but that’s another discussion).

He’s been up and down, but he’s had a very good, not great career.

Watching Nola this year feels a little bit like watching Roy Halladay in his last season, 2013. It just feels like the stuff is gone and it’s smoke, mirrors, and trying to dance outside of the zone so he doesn’t get hammered.

His walks are up this year and it’s not from a loss of control or mechanics…it’s because he needs to stay off the strike zone. His stuff is so below average now that he just cannot let it get close to the strike zone. If hitters take a few pitchers and he gets ahead in the count…or the chase out of the zone, he’ll get by. But he’s just going to be very, very vulnerable when he has to throw strikes.

18 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Between the bullpen and our hitting I’m not sure what’s worse. I’d throw in our manager not removing Nola a batter before

I think the worst thing actually isn’t the bullpen or the generalized hitting. My sports (armchair) GM-ing philosophy is that the immediate end-of-the-line biggest problem isn’t actually your biggest problem.

Why is the bullpen not better? Wouldn’t Jeff Hoffman be nice right now? Why do we have a corner outfielder slugging .356 and no center fielder? We knew losing Hoffman would suck and that Kepler/Marsh/Rojas as the LF/CF situation weren’t good.

The Phillies knew that too. They couldn’t do anything about it because they have a bloated payroll that is overpaying guys (guys that were either always overpaid or are transitioning into worsening value years of their deals). There is too much money going into guys that are no longer cornerstone level producers to the point that there are no resources left to scrape together a bullpen or outfielders. So the problem isn’t really the outfielders or bullpen arms we happen to have. They are just the sad face of the problem. It’s the bad money going to better players at positions not considered weaknesses but who still aren’t able to carry the team. If they were getting paid what they are worth, we’d probably have a better outfield and bullpen. And if they were playing to their contracts, we’d be overcoming those issues.

Larry Christenson

Tom Underwood

Cole Hammels

..... as far as pitchers go.

18 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Nola wasn’t great but still he had given up 2 thru 6.1. The issue is we can’t hit worth crap and our our bullpen blows. Plus Thomson is a moron who didn’t take nola out a batter sooner so Ruiz didn’t have to potentially face lindor

the offense stinks. where are they ranked with RISP? has to be last or near the bottom, no?

32 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I think the worst thing actually isn’t the bullpen or the generalized hitting. My sports (armchair) GM-ing philosophy is that the immediate end-of-the-line biggest problem isn’t actually your biggest problem.

Why is the bullpen not better? Wouldn’t Jeff Hoffman be nice right now? Why do we have a corner outfielder slugging .356 and no center fielder? We knew losing Hoffman would suck and that Kepler/Marsh/Rojas as the LF/CF situation weren’t good.

The Phillies knew that too. They couldn’t do anything about it because they have a bloated payroll that is overpaying guys (guys that were either always overpaid or are transitioning into worsening value years of their deals). There is too much money going into guys that are no longer cornerstone level producers to the point that there are no resources left to scrape together a bullpen or outfielders. So the problem isn’t really the outfielders or bullpen arms we happen to have. They are just the sad face of the problem. It’s the bad money going to better players at positions not considered weaknesses but who still aren’t able to carry the team. If they were getting paid what they are worth, we’d probably have a better outfield and bullpen. And if they were playing to their contracts, we’d be overcoming those issues.

Part of their outfield issue is they traded away O’hoppe who was a top 100 prospect and an offensively gifted catcher for marsh. Whom the angels gave up after a season and a half after being their top prospect. That trade hurts because if they used ohoppe’s value properly they have another competent outfielder. Instead they basically pissed away his value and hurt their long term future. It’s why i said at the time dont trade him for a guy the angels gave up on and you have to fix to Maximize value.

Then you get into bad contracts with Turner, Nola and Walker. Add on the way hoffman’s contract is structured he’s actually making less than Romano in year 1. They clear money in year 2 and 3 and could’ve afforded Hoffman. They just made a gamble Romano would be better an it blew up in their face. Walker being useless basically is around $20 mil they could’ve used to get a closer like tanner scott and a better outfielder rather than spending just $20 mil for Kepler and Romano

Another issue is they’ve done a bad job moving guys through the minors to be ready to take steps as BP arms. They have SP in the minors like painter, Johnson, and some other guys. But they don’t have bullpen arms close. Cause they just make everyone starters like mcgary has back end bullpen stuff. It’s likely the spot where he succeeds in any mlb role and would be better than Hernandez, Ross or Ruiz. Yet he’s working as a starter. Abel also has backend bullpen stuff but have him as a starter.

I’d add Dombrowski has made some bad trades/moves in general that has nothing to do with contracts that have hurt us. like trading away Dominguez for Austin Hayes and Dominguez is cheap and would look great right now as a RHP backend bullpen guy. Also dealt away verling for Soto. Verling right now solves a corner outfield spot instead of spending 10 mil on Kepler. if Dombrowski didn’t make some bad trades you have a Dominguez, verling and potentially a competent mlb CF from the O’hoppe trade.

55 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

the offense stinks. where are they ranked with RISP? has to be last or near the bottom, no?

According to statmuse 5th. But really it’s like last year where they have these 2-3 games where they are awesome. Then 7-10 games where they look like they couldn’t hit a ball off a t ball stand