59 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I agree with you in principle, but also am acutely aware that the number of TEs in this Draft that matched that description was one, Tyler Warren. Further, the number of TEs in the NFL that matched that description can (probably) be counted on two hands.

When you look at the Tight Ends in the Hall of Fame, how many of them were in the Goedert mode and how many in the Ertz mold?

Depends how you want to view the mold of Geodart v Ertz because in my view most are in the mold of Geodart then Ertz.

Flexing TEs out to be more like WRs is relatively new in terms of football. Guys like Tony G, Gronk, Ditka, Witten, Casper many of the older TE…. All excellent blockers I’d view these guys more in the mold of Geodart good inline TE that could block and still make an impact on the passing game

48 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Depends how you want to view the mold of Geodart v Ertz because in my view most are in the mold of Geodart then Ertz.

Flexing TEs out to be more like WRs is relatively new in terms of football. Guys like Tony G, Gronk, Ditka, Witten, Casper many of the older TE…. All excellent blockers I’d view these guys more in the mold of Geodart good inline TE that could block and still make an impact on the passing game

I like Goedert mold over Ertz type with our current offense.

Ertz is great in an offense that is going to pass 40 times a game, as a single TE in a 3 WR set...if the slot WR is decent he gets to matchup with the weaker cover guy.

In our current offense where we throw 20-25 times per game and have the dominant outside WRs, the TE like Goedert, who can flourish in both a single or two TE set, dominates in the blocking game both run blocking and pass protection, still is a threat catching the ball.

But then also doesn't fall down as soon as he is touched. That's where I give Calcaterra some props, unlike Ertz, he actually breaks some tackles.

So you can use our current guys as outlets, check downs. Ertz needs to be out into the pattern as a route runner and volume receiver. Worked great with Foles and Wentz in the West coast style Doug had. Not so much with Hurts and Siri and the two volume guys outside we have now.

But either way, TE needs to be addressed for the future. Which could be the game plan, just change the whole room next year and let this current group finish their contracts.

1 hour ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Depends how you want to view the mold of Geodart v Ertz because in my view most are in the mold of Geodart then Ertz.

Flexing TEs out to be more like WRs is relatively new in terms of football. Guys like Tony G, Gronk, Ditka, Witten, Casper many of the older TE…. All excellent blockers I’d view these guys more in the mold of Geodart good inline TE that could block and still make an impact on the passing game

You think Tony G and Casper were good blockers. I’m 77 years old and the Raiders have been my second team since their AFL days. So I have watched lots of Raiders games. Casper was known for his receiving prowess. I can’t remember his blocking prowess ever being talked about. My first hand knowledge of Tony G is much more limited, but I can’t remember his blocking prowess being discussed either.

13 minutes ago, mattwill said:

You think Tony G and Casper were good blockers. I’m 77 years old and the Raiders have been my second team since their AFL days. So I have watched lots of Raiders games. Casper was known for his receiving prowess. I can’t remember his blocking prowess ever being talked about. My first hand knowledge of Tony G is much more limited, but I can’t remember his blocking prowess being discussed either.

How often does any players blocking get talked about? Usually the best compliment a blocker going to get is not getting mentioned at all.

Tony G was a good blocker especially the later part of his career.

"Nicknamed "The Ghost” by his teammates, Casper was not only a great receiver and blocker, he was also a clutch performer.”

That taken right off the HoF website he definitely wasn’t regarded as a bad blocker but again it’s not the stuff people like to talk about when it comes to TEs or any position outside of the OL

9 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

"Nicknamed "The Ghost” by his teammates, Casper was not only a great receiver and blocker, he was also a clutch performer.”

That taken right off the HoF website he definitely wasn’t regarded as a bad blocker but again it’s not the stuff people like to talk about when it comes to TEs or any position outside of the OL

But we do talk about it with both Goedert and Ertz. Why do you think that is?

14 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

How often does any players blocking get talked about? Usually the best compliment a blocker going to get is not getting mentioned at all.

Tony G was a good blocker especially the later part of his career.

As I said in my post above, my knowledge of Tony G’s blocking was/is scanty. Based on the following, I will clearly need to eat my words.

Tony Gonzalez is widely known for being an excellent blocker, particularly as a tight end. While he was a dominant receiver, his ability to block was a crucial part of his overall game and was a key factor in his Hall of Fame status. 

Here's why Gonzalez was a good blocker:

• Hand Technique:

  Gonzalez was known for his exceptional hand technique, which allowed him to feel and move defenders, often causing them to lose their balance. 

• Pass Blocking Efficiency:

  While he wasn't always asked to pass protect extensively, his pass blocking efficiency was very high, ranking 6th overall, according to The Falcoholic. 

• Versatility:

  He could effectively block in various situations, including as a downfield blocker, helping create opportunities for his team's running game and pass game. 

• Impact on Opponents:

  His blocking was impactful enough that even highly skilled defensive coaches like Bill Belichick had to acknowledge his ability and sometimes felt compelled to put two defenders on him to contain him, according to a Reddit thread. 

• Hall of Fame Recognition:

  His blocking ability was a significant factor in his being inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, further cementing his legacy as a great overall tight end. 

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

I like Goedert mold over Ertz type with our current offense.

Ertz is great in an offense that is going to pass 40 times a game, as a single TE in a 3 WR set...if the slot WR is decent he gets to matchup with the weaker cover guy.

In our current offense where we throw 20-25 times per game and have the dominant outside WRs, the TE like Goedert, who can flourish in both a single or two TE set, dominates in the blocking game both run blocking and pass protection, still is a threat catching the ball.

But then also doesn't fall down as soon as he is touched. That's where I give Calcaterra some props, unlike Ertz, he actually breaks some tackles.

So you can use our current guys as outlets, check downs. Ertz needs to be out into the pattern as a route runner and volume receiver. Worked great with Foles and Wentz in the West coast style Doug had. Not so much with Hurts and Siri and the two volume guys outside we have now.

But either way, TE needs to be addressed for the future. Which could be the game plan, just change the whole room next year and let this current group finish their contracts.

Welp, we're "carpet bombing" the TE position. Maybe 1 will pan out like Becton did at RG. Some we brought in merely need a chance as they were sitting behind starters elsewhere. So one never knows. COuld have a long term guy already on the roster. Possibly that is why we took no TE in the draft. I still like Mayer from LV and as 93 mentioned Pitts is also a possibility.

Could be another steal by Howie. Had some plays at lead blocker on offense too

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

But we do talk about it with both Goedert and Ertz. Why do you think that is?

Blocking is being talked about more and more guys are definitely getting their flowers even OL guys get more love now. I mean how many OL got the attention Jason Kelce got 15 years ago 20 etc.

I’d also add that we likely talk more about the dirty work of our own guys because we are fans of the team

1 minute ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Blocking is being talked about more and more guys are definitely getting their flowers even OL guys get more love now. I mean how many OL got the attention Jason Kelce got 15 years ago 20 etc.

I’d also add that we likely talk more about the dirty work of our own guys because we are fans of the team

The highest TE in the last draft only had a 63/100 block rating. Apparently in the college game they are receiving weapons and blocking is not being taught. When they say "blocks well" I guess 63% is convincing to them LOL

Ty Robinson was a nice snag, great motor, non stop pursuit. I like that he gets his hands in the air. Very disruptive dude

Just now, GreenbleedinNC said:

The highest TE in the last draft only had a 63/100 block rating. Apparently in the college game they are receiving weapons and blocking is not being taught. When they say "blocks well" I guess 63% is convincing to them LOL

How does the blocking points get judge though? Is 70/100 backup OL 80/10 starting OL 90+ All pro OL status

If that’s the case a 63/100 for a TE would be excellent

3 hours ago, mattwill said:

You think Tony G and Casper were good blockers. I’m 77 years old and the Raiders have been my second team since their AFL days. So I have watched lots of Raiders games. Casper was known for his receiving prowess. I can’t remember his blocking prowess ever being talked about. My first hand knowledge of Tony G is much more limited, but I can’t remember his blocking prowess being discussed either.

3 hours ago, mattwill said:

You think Tony G and Casper were good blockers. I’m 77 years old and the Raiders have been my second team since their AFL days. So I have watched lots of Raiders games. Casper was known for his receiving prowess. I can’t remember his blocking prowess ever being talked about. My first hand knowledge of Tony G is much more limited, but I can’t remember his blocking prowess being discussed either.

Casper played 147 games and had 378 receptions.

While he might have been known for his pass catching... I'm sure he wouldn't have been playing much considering it's like 2.6 catches per game. You gotta give the blocking element to be the #1 TE.

Anyway, who knows what the plan is...or how it goes. I don't think Calcaterra is the plan as the #1 TE going forward....but still time o extend him if they want.

6 hours ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

And again this keeps to the point of the way we utilize our TEs they are massive part of the run game we are unlikely to go with an extra OL even if we trade Geodart we are going to expect the next TE to be able to block inline.

I like Cal he is a good #2 TE but don’t see him as a viable replacement as the #1 TE because of all the things we ask of that position especially inline

At the pro level….coaches need to design everything around each individuals attributes.

15 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Idk... we haven't seen a 6th OL used much it at all...in s while.

Think you mentioned FB Van Sumerin package as a new wrinkle and replacement formation to run much of the same concepts.

5 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Some good blocking TEs in this group.

Everything doesn’t have to remain exactly the same as with Goedert…without.

I keep bringing up going more WR spread and make Ds deal with that

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

I keep bringing up going more WR spread and make Ds deal with that

I guy like Smitty doesn’t even attempt to block. But he commands full attention as a receiver. That opens up the rushing attack just as well. Especially we force them into Man with their backs turned. Backs turned against Hurts ….ohhh he will dice teams trying that.

4 hours ago, joemas6 said:

I like Goedert mold over Ertz type with our current offense.

Ertz is great in an offense that is going to pass 40 times a game, as a single TE in a 3 WR set...if the slot WR is decent he gets to matchup with the weaker cover guy.

In our current offense where we throw 20-25 times per game and have the dominant outside WRs, the TE like Goedert, who can flourish in both a single or two TE set, dominates in the blocking game both run blocking and pass protection, still is a threat catching the ball.

But then also doesn't fall down as soon as he is touched. That's where I give Calcaterra some props, unlike Ertz, he actually breaks some tackles.

So you can use our current guys as outlets, check downs. Ertz needs to be out into the pattern as a route runner and volume receiver. Worked great with Foles and Wentz in the West coast style Doug had. Not so much with Hurts and Siri and the two volume guys outside we have now.

But either way, TE needs to be addressed for the future. Which could be the game plan, just change the whole room next year and let this current group finish their contracts.

Ertz and Goedert totally different flavors of TE. Frankly Goedert isn’t ever going to sniff being anywhere near a career comparable to Ertz. I don’t see things quite like you though. Goedert being that YAC Creator is what makes him a better fit for our current squad. That’s the other threat option to throw at opponents that AJ and Smitty are going downfield.

My main option of a doffeeent personnel package is two RBs variations. Shipley is going to be that playmaker we just have to get involved.

Believe Shipley can be utilized out as WR in some packages they develop this season.

4 hours ago, mattwill said:

You think Tony G and Casper were good blockers. I’m 77 years old and the Raiders have been my second team since their AFL days. So I have watched lots of Raiders games. Casper was known for his receiving prowess. I can’t remember his blocking prowess ever being talked about. My first hand knowledge of Tony G is much more limited, but I can’t remember his blocking prowess being discussed either.

Tony G was a superstar receiver…he didn’t block

FL probably with me on Ozzie Newsome big effect as a TE