On top of everything with Jurgens contract.. I forgot to mention after the extension , they saved 2 million on this year's cap.

This is a no brainer....probably best contract other than Hurts deal as far as market value for the position. And neither need to be in the top 5 of their position to get this value.

The way the Eagles understand the market, and how the cap is going to go up huge in the future...

They use tomorrow's pennies to save today's dollars.

Locking in guys at today's value for the next 5 years. As other teams have to give more expensive deals to players that aren't as good. This is how they stay ahead of the cap and the rest of the league.

18 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

See I read into it just how much leverage Davis is putting on here. Both No Mas and I agreed we wouldn’t do the fifth year option with him. Him having the leverage to force us into excercising that amount of straight all guaranteed loot means we are in trouble some on this one. He shouldn’t be up to making those figures. Guy hasn’t even played very significant percentages of snaps. Hasn’t posted any statistical key leverage advantages.

So the moment he forced us into exercising that fifth year option….that was a big win for him here. More than he’s worth….all guaranteed and straight hit to that year’s salary cap. All details completely in his favor big time and totally against us. Any extension talk now begins with us already owing and agreeing to pay him that. Those negotiations are working against us big time already.

No Mas didn't realize that 27 DTs make over $13 million....of course the additions of this year's overpaid guys, including the ridiculous amount Milton Williams received is part of it.

As BG said, that's $12.9 mil in 2026. I would assume a deal gets done or even a possible trade. The Eagles hold the cards in this situation, as we can assume even more DTs will make that $12.9 mil amount, Davis should want to make a deal.

18 hours ago, mattwill said:

With regard to Cam, Howie was just being Howie … extending a player one to two years before everyone else would extend that player. At the time of the announcement of the extension, the dollars appear to be somewhat high. However, when the one to two years elapses, the numbers that seemed so high are no longer as high due to new contacts that have been signed by other teams with players at that position. Further, the AAV of the extension only kicks in after the current contract expires. And in addition, the player gets their bonus cash up front. It is a win-win-win all around.

The numbers for Cam are low...very low...even now. Simple click on a website to see everything....either overthecap.com or spotrac.com.... and the numbers are right there.

Personally, I'm not a fan of just listening to the media give contract information. They are really clueless for the most part. Easy research using a couple of clicks of the mouse and literally seconds is much better.

Of course I had to do the same thing with this political issue of the " Maryland man" .. simple Google and you can just read the court hearing results... go right to the conclusions. Instead of listening to all the bias outlets.

I'm amazed in today's world how people waste their time on so much crap, yet don't spend minutes and some time literally seconds to get information that is right there?

13 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

The way the Eagles understand the market, and how the cap is going to go up huge in the future...

They use tomorrow's pennies to save today's dollars.

Locking in guys at today's value for the next 5 years. As other teams have to give more expensive deals to players that aren't as good. This is how they stay ahead of the cap and the rest of the league.

He isn't understanding that "backloading" only hurts if the contract plays itself out, which Howie never lets happen. Howie rolls contracts over for guys he wants to keep

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

He isn't understanding that "backloading" only hurts if the contract plays itself out, which Howie never lets happen. Howie rolls contracts over for guys he wants to keep

Time value of money.

But there is no way you can look at Jurgens contract compared to the other centers and not think it's a steal.

14 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Personally, I'm not a fan of just listening to the media give contract information. They are really clueless for the most part. Easy research using a couple of clicks of the mouse and literally seconds is much better.

Of course I had to do the same thing with this political issue of the " Maryland man" .. simple Google and you can just read the court hearing results... go right to the conclusions. Instead of listening to all the bias outlets.

I'm amazed in today's world how people waste their time on so much crap, yet don't spend minutes and some time literally seconds to get information that is right there?

I was checking overthecap and looking at "5th year options" Alot of interesting things on that page. People won't take time to find facts, but will take a quiz to see what kind of potato they are. "Let them eat cake" stupid

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I was checking overthecap and looking at "5th year options" Alot of interesting things on that page. People won't take time to find facts, but will take a quiz to see what kind of potato they are. "Let them eat cake" stupid

Overthecap is phenomenal with the information you can find

Either with a quick search or any deep dive.

5th year options, comp pick values, draft pick salary... comparing positions etc.

Then the ability to look ahead.

For the person that is interested in detail and understanding how it works, its great. But it's not for the " philosophy " person...who just likes cliches and general ideas.

18 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Our QB was Heisman runner up operating spread. Totally disagree. Believe this is exactly a formula to apply even more stress to our opponents D. Saquan….or downfield. The more you spread things out….the less any disguise can even be attempted. Numbers game….just pushing those numbers to be even more well defined by clearing out the box even more.

Ok Chip... I'll go with what has worked best the last 5 years as proof...compared to your theory. It's not college ball and spread to get stats....NFL ball is a little different. We are a run based offense. The TE that can block is a strong asset... also one that can run after the catch.

Maybe it's why you were so angry last year during the most fun season ...because you don't care about team success, you just want stats for Hurts. The offense runs better the less Hurts throws. He thrives throwing 20-24 times per game. Dumb to change that.

18 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Howie is great. He signs those "too high" contracts for extended years and they get surpassed while our guys are still under contract due to the cap salary increases. Of course the fans pay for that along with increased ad prices. $13.00 for a beer is a bit much, but as long as we suck them down,they won't stop

How many $13 beers have you bought?

I wouldn't worry...they drink enough starting 5 hours before the game. An Eagles game is a beer distributors heaven.

18 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Yeah very strange,you are right, we usually take guys we had visits with. it's a very high percentage too. We had a load of TE's in and didn't take ANY

Howie is breaking all the trends..it's great to see. Big school...small school...30 visit...then no 30 visit... LB since 1979... it's great . I prefer to see all this because it means when they select a player, they truly feel its their best choice...and not for any bias toward position, school, visit or anything else.

You gotta stay flexible...each draft is it's own...each pick is it's own. Make the best decision on the fly

18 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

We both agreed we didn’t believe that fifth year option would be exercised. I read everything that comes on here is clearly how I’ve proven myself as here. Respond to much anybody volunteers with my own two cents very often even. But please expand on…if now…your viewpoint has changed …where your thoughts reside on this whole player contract. You know I’ll read it.

Didn't realize the amount of DTs that make over $13 million now. The Davis $12.9 option is 2026. A year later...obviously we both should understand that the number of DTs making over $13 mil will go higher.

Also... Davis makes peanuts this year. So in essence... $14 mil for the next 2 years. Not great at all.

The Eagles have leverage being that Davis won't see any real money hit his wallet any time soon. Peanuts this year...and the $12.9 mil would be game checks.

As other players get paid...Davis loses leverage. He is locked in NOT to get paid until 2027 if he does nothing.

He can fall behind the pay scale... get injured. The Eagles are in great position to get him paid and keep his cap hit lower. Using the leverage.

Do you think any team is going to offer him $20 mil per? If so...then it won't be until 2027. Do the math, he can take money now and get ahead of the game, plus also renegotiate earlier for the next deal.

Unless he completely breaks the bank in 2027 and makes up for what the Eagles offer him now in a long term deal.... then he would be better off taking a deal now.

Eagles have the leverage. I didn't realize how little the $12.9 mil was compared to the market.

19 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Hurts is one of the least checkdown QBs ever

But you obsess over the " Yac Creation plays" that the rest of us call a screen. Rank Goedert, Calcaterra and Ertz ...on how they are on this type of play?

19 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Pats could afford to overpay…so it was a good move…FOR THEM.

Absolutely not... once you go down that road it sets the wrong path for the team. Next contracts come up and you have to keep overpaying. Just a bad move unless he becomes close to all pro level. Can't pay elite money for a solid player.

18 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

See this is where a huge divide in your logic and mine surfaces. Niners got Hargrave taking them to a Super Bowl season. Should have won a ring. Absolutely take that shot going ‘all in’….like the Niners were so very clearly doing. Weakened us their NFC competition while they were at it.

I don’t buy into being too frugal in that situation. Don’t clam up and get cheap the season expectations are set so very high to win the Lombardi. Worst is going bargain basement shopping instead of paying up for the outside key piece making a SB game appearance difference maker…ideally SB champion conclusions. Pay up to do everything possible to win that SB when such an obvious universally considered contention season arrives.

Overpay going ‘all in’ …suffer that two years after contention price clearing the cap. I see nothing wrong with making decisions according to this way of thinking. Pretty standard traditional NFL approach I believed.

Right...we absolutely differ when it comes to money

You want to overpay everyone. But for some reason you don't want to extend Cam ...a pro bowl player... entering year 4... to where his contract is peanuts to the players at his position.

We absolutely differ.

Just because you have cap space doesn't mean you overpay players. When has that won any organization a title in the cap era?

But you still don't see the value in locking up your young core early at under market price?

19 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

See this is where a huge divide in your logic and mine surfaces.

Huge difference between our logic

You like the Milton Williams contract

Cap hits... 2025 to 2028...$14m, 29m, 30m and 31m....total = $104 million

I like Cam Jurgens contract... $3.5, 5.5, 8.5, 11.5... total just under $30 mil

I think $30 mil for 4 years of your pro bowl center who plays all the snaps and gets the ball to my QB, while being in the middle of the best unit on the team.

Is better than paying $104 million for a guy who plays less than half the snaps and not close to pro bowl level.

We really have a divide when it comes to money...and contracts....for sure.

18 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But you still have to pick and choose. Sign early good players. Great! Obvious. But which players don’t you keep and when? Where do you draw the lines and what lace value? Cam is an above average young player looking to only improve. So obviously would like to retain. But not at any cost. I’d say he actually would be a fairly easy player to replace with minimal dropoff.

So if you truly believe the first part...

Compare these contracts...we will look at the other 8... ( not including Cam and your boy Humphrey)

Cam.... $30 mil from 2025- 2028. And $45 mil when you add the $15 mil for 2029 ( his age 30 season)

Drew Dalnag = $42.64 mil... 3 years

Frank Ragnow = $30.4mil ... 2 years

Lloyd Cushenberry = 33.3 mil ... 3 years

Eric McCoy = 43.7 mil ... 3 years

Tyler Biadasz = 25.6 mil ... 3 years

Ryan Kelly = 17.7 mil ... 2 years

Aaron Brewer = 16.2 mil ... 2 years

Robert Hainsey = 20 mil ... 3 years

Compare Cam being locked in for 5 years .. to these guys. While we also know the prices are going up. We also know that it's not an easy position to fill. Because we should have basic football knowledge to know that chemistry matters on the OL matters between C and QB. Why upset the apple cart and risk everything when you can lock in ( on a contending team that you constantly preach about overspending) at bargain price?

Makes zero sense on your part. Unless you just don't understand the numbers... or just have an agenda vs Cam... or just need to die on a hill and not show flexibility to change your opinion as you get more information.

But explain why you would have signed Cam to this deal now?

Milton Williams.... 2 years at 43 million cap hit

Cam Jurgens 5 years at 45 mil cap hit

Is it really even a thought as to the better contract?

You get Cam for 3 more years for $2 million.

The younger player, the pro bowl player and the player that plays more.

18 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

This all ties into long term extension talks Rosie and Davis have been engaging in. These results I see as Rosie losing on all fronts pretty much:

You always see Howie losing ... it's amazing.

18 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Not where Vrabel has ever earned his success from. History says you’re wrong. He needs to change the culture. Bring in a SB winner….that kicked butt under the biggest lights. Their QB might be adequate for Vrabel to roll with being he’s a D mind HC. He didn’t rely on top QB in Nashville ever.

What did he win in Nashville?

18 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Milton doesn’t have to be the one player fix everything. He’s a piece in the right direction though. Great signing for them.

26 mil...is elite money...he absolutely needs to be the guy. How many defensive players are you going to pay more than him?

You don't see the flaw in your logic?

You see Dejean wanting to play outside....because of money

... but you don't see NE players who are better than Milton looking to get more than him?

To me it seems like....if it's the Eagles ( Howie and Siri) anything is going to be a problem...but when it's other teams nothing is going to be a problem.

You invent problems for the Eagles...Howie is losing, we win inspired of Siri...yet Lynch and the fired OC from Houston and other coaches who don't win ...they are just the best. It's really comical.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Overthecap is phenomenal with the information you can find

Either with a quick search or any deep dive.

5th year options, comp pick values, draft pick salary... comparing positions etc.

Then the ability to look ahead.

For the person that is interested in detail and understanding how it works, its great. But it's not for the " philosophy " person...who just likes cliches and general ideas.

The one thing I would love to see from OverTheCap that they don’t currently do is report the Cap Adjustments for each team each year. One of the components of those adjustments is the injury insurance payouts that each team got for their players who they covered with a policy who actually missed time due to injury. I have emailed Jason about that.

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

The one thing I would love to see from OverTheCap that they don’t currently do is report the Cap Adjustments for each team each year. One of the components of those adjustments is the injury insurance payouts that each team got for their players who they covered with a policy who actually missed time due to injury. I have emailed Jason about that.

The cap adjustments are minimal ...we have a very good general idea of how much cap will roll over. I'm not sure he is privy to the inside information to get those #s before it actually matters.

With his extensive information a fan can get so much information to understand how everything works.

Certainly enough info not to make uneducated generalizations or assumptionson how things work. He gives us great details on everything. Without this site it would definitely be very difficult to understand a lot about how the league works.

19 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Well when you really dig in and get specific…his choices were most all the bad moves. All of Fangio’s choices were fantastic.

Like when Howie picked Milton and didn't get the fist bump because the scout wanted a CB? Before Fangio.