2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

That’s a very tall ask. He’s just learning a whole new O. Miles away from being ready to room through to the third read on every new play understanding what Moore is looking for out of him. That’s not just with the O play called..you understand…it’s that play how it translates versus the D playcall.

 I thought it was just an understood fact that with time in a scheme comes more comfort and knowledge of that scheme.

It's not all that far off from what Iowa ran. I mean unless you are going to tear down years of what we do. Cooper is not stupid,he's very bright and is a sponge. He will make rook mistakes,we need to understand that.I'm not expecting a shut down anything right away. Like any rook he will see what he did wrong and make the adjustments

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I hate that play....I remember one year under Andy....we started like 8 games in a row with the 2 yard out to LJ Smith. 

Oh it made my skin crawl as a TE. Real misuse of Goederts talent

4 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

That’s a very tall ask. He’s just learning a whole new O. Miles away from being ready to room through to the third read on every new play understanding what Moore is looking for out of him. That’s not just with the O play called..you understand…it’s that play how it translates versus the D playcall.

 I thought it was just an understood fact that with time in a scheme comes more comfort and knowledge of that scheme.

You make the game way more complicated...and the players way more stupid than reality.

You take a 9th grader today... they have the knowledge of a college senior 30 years ago regarding football schemes. 

These pros today...way more ahead of the game mentally.  A 5th year QB... shouldn't take long in 2024. Just different times. 

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

It’s really just a fascinating case study. Last thing I want is to overwhelm any elite potentials kid and have him developing sloppy bad habits that will later need to be broken.

I just don’t understand your whole train of thought here?   

8 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Goedert-Middle of the field weapon. Behind him comes Ainias Smith on a screen cross. Tell me who can cover that. Smith is a rook,expect rook mistakes,but once that gets fixed we can own the middle of the field against anyone

SO now he question is,will Hurts find them?

10 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

IDK I can run 8 plays only.if I can execute those 8 plays and you can't stop me,the play call doesn't really matter. Of course this is a simpleton explanation,but it all comes down to execution. I don't think the play calling could get worse though. What bothered me most was continually running plays we could NOT execute

I thought Chip Kelly stupid experiment clearly disapproved that. Even with him always masking the 8 plays in a hurry up situation. NFL Ds are just way too good for that. You always have to execute well to succeed. But running a predictable O with zero imagination just isn’t going to remotely cut it in my book. My thoughts are you want to create conflict in defenders. That one heartbeat where they have to hesitate run/pass and all the variants beyond. That’s what creates the windows and opportunities.

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

It's not all that far off from what Iowa ran. I mean unless you are going to tear down years of what we do. Cooper is not stupid,he's very bright and is a sponge. He will make rook mistakes,we need to understand that.I'm not expecting a shut down anything right away. Like any rook he will see what he did wrong and make the adjustments

As long as he isn't expected to be this slot guy having to cover the out pattern. We should be fine.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

I thought Chip Kelly stupid experiment clearly disapproved that. Even with him always masking the 8 plays in a hurry up situation. NFL Ds are just way too good for that. You always have to execute well to succeed. But running a predictable O with zero imagination just isn’t going to remotely cut it in my book. My thoughts are you want to create conflict in defenders. That one heartbeat where they have to hesitate run/pass and all the variants beyond. That’s what creates the windows and opportunities.

Let me ask you then. I have 2 plays. Play 1. I run the ball in the B gap for 12 yards. You can't stop me. Play 2-I throw to Goedert for 25 yards and you can't stop me. if I can execute those 2 plays and you can never stop me what is the problem?

15 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I'm not saying not to question anything you see after the fact.   

I'm saying you have a rookie with promise... why worry exactly how he is used from his first day at practice etc.  Let it happen... in a way that works for him and the team. 

You could make the case he’s an elite outside CB. You already are eliminating that from the table with him though, right? If it was your decision that is. Which I’d argue would be the greatest talent to unleash in his possible bag. 

2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Let me ask you then. I have 2 plays. Play 1. I run the ball in the B gap for 12 yards. You can't stop me. Play 2-I throw to Goedert for 25 yards and you can't stop me. if I can execute those 2 plays and you can never stop me what is the problem?

I will even call the play out to the defense because if you can't stop me who cares?

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I thought Chip Kelly stupid experiment clearly disapproved that. Even with him always masking the 8 plays in a hurry up situation. NFL Ds are just way too good for that. You always have to execute well to succeed. But running a predictable O with zero imagination just isn’t going to remotely cut it in my book. My thoughts are you want to create conflict in defenders. That one heartbeat where they have to hesitate run/pass and all the variants beyond. That’s what creates the windows and opportunities.

Only thing..I think Chip's 8 plays would have worked much better with his running QB Hurts....an all around TE in Goedert...and the better outside WRs that we have now. 

Plus... at the G spots... he didn't have the run blockers. 

I'm not saying this to build up Chip,or approve of the limited scheme... more so to give credit to our current players including the athletic ability of our QB. Also... give credit to Steichen who basically was able to use this RPO system with the perfect timing to add enough to keep the defense from just focusing 100% to stop it. 

I feel last year it was the go to a little to often and predictable on key plays. 

Look I’m not pretending like I have the answers with how to handle DeJean. Think I kind of explained out my thoughts with him. But after very long pondering…for what seems like a couple of months…I think I’d start him with Cover 2 high S. FS roles. But when I was considering checking him off as the 22nd pick…or people talking trading up for him? It was believing he could be that outside CB. If he can be that elite outside CB? That’s what I’d prefer over all else. Be that Cb that travels wherever the top WR goes. Shut him down. If he can be that? That’s what I’d do with him.

So for me last year the simple play calls weren't great,it was the fact we couldn't execute them,but we never replaced them with plays we COULD

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

You could make the case he’s an elite outside CB. You already are eliminating that from the table with him though, right? If it was your decision that is. Which I’d argue would be the greatest talent to unleash in his possible bag. 

Not eliminating anything.  He can cover outside some...as the scheme calls for.

Are you asking me if we put him in for Slay? 

21 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Failure to understand the sideline is an added defender sent shivers up my spine(and not good ones)

The Latu kind…just kidding. I’m rooting for that kid big time.

6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Only thing..I think Chip's 8 plays would have worked much better with his running QB Hurts....an all around TE in Goedert...and the better outside WRs that we have now. 

Plus... at the G spots... he didn't have the run blockers. 

I'm not saying this to build up Chip,or approve of the limited scheme... more so to give credit to our current players including the athletic ability of our QB. Also... give credit to Steichen who basically was able to use this RPO system with the perfect timing to add enough to keep the defense from just focusing 100% to stop it. 

I feel last year it was the go to a little to often and predictable on key plays. 

We have a great RB now. I'm expecting a shift from the RPO to play action. Hurts needs to use the weapons not just ball hog after 1 read. he was also awful on alot of runs beause he didn't bust for the yards like he did before the big payday. He would run a few yards and fall down like a deer in headlights. Not a good look IMO.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Look I’m not pretending like I have the answers with how to handle DeJean. Think I kind of explained out my thoughts with him. But after very long pondering…for what seems like a couple of months…I think I’d start him with Cover 2 high S. FS roles. But when I was considering checking him off as the 22nd pick…or people talking trading up for him? It was believing he could be that outside CB. If he can be that elite outside CB? That’s what I’d prefer over all else. Be that Cb that travels wherever the top WR goes. Shut him down. If he can be that? That’s what I’d do with him.

Ok...forget Dejean... 

Here is your squad....Slay, Bradberry,  Mitchell,  Ringo, Jobe, Rodgers,  Maddox, Blankenship,  CGJ  and DeJean.

You put out 4 DBs on 1st and 10 with 2 LBs in the middle of the 3/4 D

2nd down 10...you go Nickel

3rd and 10..you go dime.

You tell me how do you use DeJean?  If you play him as an outside CB... worrying strictly only about him. How does that make your lineup?

I'm anxious to see how Moore plays to Hurts strengths yet also makes him do NFL QB things. last year was really a wash as far as Hurts progressing. I want to see that return

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Ok...forget Dejean... 

Here is your squad....Slay, Bradberry,  Mitchell,  Ringo, Jobe, Rodgers,  Maddox, Blankenship,  CGJ  and DeJean.

You put out 4 DBs on 1st and 10 with 2 LBs in the middle of the 3/4 D

2nd down 10...you go Nickel

3rd and 10..you go dime.

You tell me how do you use DeJean?  If you play him as an outside CB... worrying strictly only about him. How does that make your lineup?

I'm missing guys here... Sydney Brown..and Ricks.. so why not see what works with the group?  

I'm not worried about anything...the more options you have with smart players that have talent to play multiple spots... that's great.

22 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

What bothered me was during a few games stretch last season...Hurts had more turnovers than our punter had punts...while we were scoring a lot of points....and fans were complaining about the play calling.

What concerns me going forward... if the RPO is going to be stopped and contained better by modern day defenses... can our QB still be effective?   

This is a very real concern about the RPO. Hurts has been the best at running RPOs. So a league wide adaptation limiting their effectiveness is a real problem. Moore runs RPOs also. Whole league pretty much has been. Clearly if RPOs aren’t as effective it means our QB isn’t as effective with him being the top guy running them. No version do I even begin to question whether QB1 can be effective. He still was running a top ranked O with tons of team issues going on around him.  He needs to add to his bag though here. My answer is the quick accurate timing passing game.

I guess what Im saying is,I want this team to be fun to watch again,not the morbid near dead boring team from last year.

2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I'm anxious to see how Moore plays to Hurts strengths yet also makes him do NFL QB things. last year was really a wash as far as Hurts progressing. I want to see that return

I have to be honest.   I was more into scheme when I felt we always had limited talent on offense. 

We had a finesse speed offense with the MeSeans, Maclin and crew.   We had limited WR talent before that with Westbrook... before that we had Watters and that stud FB.

Now we got everything ... I am more interested in just seeing the guys make plays...I don't really think we need to do much chicanery or rocket science to make up for any weaknesses... or try to use the limited strengths.   We have everything... just don't be too predictable or do anything dumb in the game management and let the talent do their thing. 

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

I have to be honest.   I was more into scheme when I felt we always had limited talent on offense. 

We had a finesse speed offense with the MeSeans, Maclin and crew.   We had limited WR talent before that with Westbrook... before that we had Watters and that stud FB.

Now we got everything ... I am more interested in just seeing the guys make plays...I don't really think we need to do much chicanery or rocket science to make up for any weaknesses... or try to use the limited strengths.   We have everything... just don't be too predictable or do anything dumb in the game management and let the talent do their thing. 

I just want to see execution. That makes the game fun to watch. Not having the tush push be 50% of your offense

27 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

It's not all that far off from what Iowa ran. I mean unless you are going to tear down years of what we do. Cooper is not stupid,he's very bright and is a sponge. He will make rook mistakes,we need to understand that.I'm not expecting a shut down anything right away. Like any rook he will see what he did wrong and make the adjustments

You are confusing me by responding to a quote about the O here. But he made most of his highlight plays as an outside CB. In college the hashes are much further apart with the ball being placed and so on. College ball just isn’t the pros. Main Big 10 National Champs shoved the ball running  down everybodies throats. Which works on all levels. But not much for answers about a DB transitioning to the NFL. Playing primarily outside CB converting to S has to be learned even more than just stepping up levels of competition. If that’s even what you think they should do with him? Are you in the throw everything at DeJean camp except outside CB for game one camp also?

We had the same things last year,except now we have a better RB and the slot guy. Hurts is always a threat to run,doesn't mean he always has to. Like to see a shift to pass first,use your legs to move around in the pocket