5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I know it’s a bit more out of the box thinking. That just because Goedert runs certain plays must mean the next man up would be TE2. But that’s just not the case in these specific play types for what’s needed. Frankly it’s unusual for a TE to be that guy in the first place. But Goedert’s been good at this role. It’s been even more highlighted by the fact we haven’t had anybody else that could fulfill the role. 
  Once again…not TE role…YAC creation role.

Its unusual for a TE to catch a screen pass?    I had a game called NFL challenge... 1980s on my Radio Shack Tandy Computer .... the game consisted of play calls for defense and offense. One of the effective plays was 4-6 ... formation 4 (single back double TE... single back was the FB... due to the popularity of the Redskins one back formation with Riggins) ... play 6 was a TE screen.   That's 40 years ago.

Celek used to be great at those plays. Andy had a lot of those plays too... Lewis, LJ etc.    I think maybe because Ertz wasn't that type of guy, that all of a sudden Goedert seems like he runs a lot of those... but I don't think it's any amount out of the ordinary.  

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Alright so No Mas identifies with these plays with the screen pass. So let’s say we have two WR at the line of scrimmage and one guy behind them to catch and run with the screen pass. Could that guy catching that be TE Goedert, WR Smith or RB Shipley? Does it matter what positional label is tagged to the YAC creation specialist?

It's a play call. NONE are "specialists" You run the PLAY

A TE fakes like he is pass protecting... then he catches a screen pass... not really out of he box thinking.   It's just focusing on 6 to 10 of Goedert's 1000 or so snaps.   And again, DIFFERENT conversation.   Not out of the box... or I'm smarter than you... just simply a different conversation.  

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

It's a play call. NONE are "specialists" You run the PLAY

Its a grouping of play calls relying on a player that can create with the ball in his hands

2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

It's a play call. NONE are "specialists" You run the PLAY

You said ASmith was a BU for Goedert,there is NO WAY he is that. Now if you want to call a PLAY for Asmith thats fine,doesn't make him a "specialist" nor a replacement for Goedert

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Alright so No Mas identifies with these plays with the screen pass. So let’s say we have two WR at the line of scrimmage and one guy behind them to catch and run with the screen pass. Could that guy catching that be TE Goedert, WR Smith or RB Shipley? Does it matter what positional label is tagged to the YAC creation specialist?

Yes.. .because they would be labeled in the playbook differently to identify who catches the ball.... RB screen, X screen, Y screen, Z screen, TE screen etc.   

But yes.... in addition to Goedert, now we should have more players to get screen passes because we know Julio and Quez weren't going to get to many.   Awesome... we all agree about those 5 plays out of the 1200 or so we will run.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Its a grouping of play calls relying on a player that can create with the ball in his hands

So you are talking about a play that gives players SPACE. It's up to the player to execute that,it's not a YAC play call,it's  a PLAY CALL

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So you are talking about a play that gives players SPACE. It's up to the player to execute that,it's not a YAC play call,it's  a PLAY CALL

On screens that is on your O line(or TE/RB in some cases) to create the blocks for the player. 

I'm calling a screen and my blockers don't block I don;t care who has the ball they aren't "specialist" enough to get the yards without other players help

Just now, joemas6 said:

A TE fakes like he is pass protecting... then he catches a screen pass... not really out of he box thinking.   It's just focusing on 6 to 10 of Goedert's 1000 or so snaps.   And again, DIFFERENT conversation.   Not out of the box... or I'm smarter than you... just simply a different conversation.  

Many more plays than just that one on this grouping. I’m not trying to come off as smarter than anybody here. Just trying to figure out a way to explain my point. Which honestly has been much more difficult than I ever would have expected. Mostly because you guys getting caught up on labels. I always specifically was saying it wasn’t about all the plays becoming TE2 I was talking about. Very specifically talking about a set group of playcalls that rely on YAC creation. But somehow you guys keep getting stuck on if it’s the next option after Goedert for these plays I must be talking about TE2 and how is this WR or Rb going to inline block…and all these holdups. Frankly maybe it’s not I’m smarter than anybody situation…probably I just can’t communicate effectively enough my point some how. But I’ve tried. I do see it as a key point. The team seemed to recognize the exact same thing and targeted Smith and Shipley for the role.

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Yes.. .because they would be labeled in the playbook differently to identify who catches the ball.... RB screen, X screen, Y screen, Z screen, TE screen etc.   

But yes.... in addition to Goedert, now we should have more players to get screen passes because we know Julio and Quez weren't going to get to many.   Awesome... we all agree about those 5 plays out of the 1200 or so we will run.

I think what is happening here is Ham's use of the word specialist,at least for me

6 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Its a grouping of play calls relying on a player that can create with the ball in his hands

Or deception in having more numbers than the defense, or taking advantage of a huge cushion or space the defense is giving ... or countering a pass rush that is too aggressive?   

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Many more plays than just that one on this grouping. I’m not trying to come off as smarter than anybody here. Just trying to figure out a way to explain my point. Which honestly has been much more difficult than I ever would have expected. Mostly because you guys getting caught up on labels. I always specifically was saying it wasn’t about all the plays becoming TE2 I was talking about. Very specifically talking about a set group of playcalls that rely on YAC creation. But somehow you guys keep getting stuck on if it’s the next option after Goedert for these plays I must be talking about TE2 and how is this WR or Rb going to inline block…and all these holdups. Frankly maybe it’s not I’m smarter than anybody situation…probably I just can’t communicate effectively enough my point some how. But I’ve tried. I do see it as a key point. The team seemed to recognize the exact same thing and targeted Smith and Shipley for the role.

Well we have good players at every point now,so we just need to execute the plays called. I don't see a Rb screen and replacing Goedert it's just every play requires different moves from many players

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Many more plays than just that one on this grouping. I’m not trying to come off as smarter than anybody here. Just trying to figure out a way to explain my point. Which honestly has been much more difficult than I ever would have expected. Mostly because you guys getting caught up on labels. I always specifically was saying it wasn’t about all the plays becoming TE2 I was talking about. Very specifically talking about a set group of playcalls that rely on YAC creation. But somehow you guys keep getting stuck on if it’s the next option after Goedert for these plays I must be talking about TE2 and how is this WR or Rb going to inline block…and all these holdups. Frankly maybe it’s not I’m smarter than anybody situation…probably I just can’t communicate effectively enough my point some how. But I’ve tried. I do see it as a key point. The team seemed to recognize the exact same thing and targeted Smith and Shipley for the role.

Not labels... we were in a conversation about the backup TE... and you were having a different one with yourself.  Really not difficult to understand.  

I think last year a couple times we ran the WR running a pick or clear out cutting inside and had Goedert running the Out as one of these YAC designed plays I’m speaking of.

A Smith is not a  BU to Goedert,in fact they should be on the field at the same time(or Paris) A Smith goes off in 12 personnel and we need for TE2 to step into the role and IDK who is going to do that

4 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I think what is happening here is Ham's use of the word specialist,at least for me

They are short passing plays or even though screens…where the whole point is the YAC. You need a player that can create with the ball in his hands. 
 

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I think last year a couple times we ran the WR running a pick or clear out cutting inside and had Goedert running the Out as one of these YAC designed plays I’m speaking of.

Drop the YAC

Goedert has been very good at these YAC plays. Ertz was the route runner. He didn’t ever get much after the catch. He did his damage before the catch. If that helps you understand what I’m talking about.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

They are short passing plays or even though screens…where the whole point is the YAC. You need a player that can create with the ball in his hands. 
 

So that is a play call,the player either executes or he doesn't once again there are no YAC play calls,it's simply a play call,drop the YAC stuff

4 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I think what is happening here is Ham's use of the word specialist,at least for me

Not at all. ..what is happening was Ham put himself in our conversation and went off in a different direction ...by himself.  Talking specifically about 3% of what Goedert does.  While we were looking at the Eagles TE position and it's future and looking at the 2 TE formation.  Totally different conversations.  

Just now, GreenbleedinNC said:

Drop the YAC

That’s the whole point of the grouping of plays that need a specific player that can create with the ball in his hands. These plays pretty much don’t require some fantastic route running abilities either. Just a get the ball in that players hands and let him make something happen.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Goedert has been very good at these YAC plays. Ertz was the route runner. He didn’t ever get much after the catch. He did his damage before the catch. If that helps you understand what I’m talking about.

Right it's on the player not the play call as I have been saying

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I think last year a couple times we ran the WR running a pick or clear out cutting inside and had Goedert running the Out as one of these YAC designed plays I’m speaking of.

Yes... again a different conversation.... and it's a great " couple of plays"   All good.   Nothing to do with the future of the TE position

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So that is a play call,the player either executes or he doesn't once again there are no YAC play calls,it's simply a play call,drop the YAC stuff

The play is designed to open up the YAC potential deliberately