3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Whole group of plays specifically designed for this

Screens

6 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Absolutely correct. Why I said only specifically talking about Goedert’s role in these specific YAC creation plays …not becoming TE2.

I know it’s a bit more out of the box thinking. That just because Goedert runs certain plays must mean the next man up would be TE2. But that’s just not the case in these specific play types for what’s needed. Frankly it’s unusual for a TE to be that guy in the first place. But Goedert’s been good at this role. It’s been even more highlighted by the fact we haven’t had anybody else that could fulfill the role. 
  Once again…not TE role…YAC creation role.

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

And why I said that it was your conversation with yourself... we were talking about TE2 

We were talking about Smith

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Screens

They’d be included in this group of plays for sure. Even though most of them are technically runs. All about hopefully clearing a path for what the player can do after the catch with just getting the ball in his hands.

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Screens

You can design plays that allow more space, or blocking stunts, but that's on the players to execute there are no YAC play calls and no "specialists" If you have a twitchy guy you can call plays that play to that strength,but that's on the players not the call

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I want every damn player I can find on my team who is a YAC specialist. They are play calls,there are zero plays called YAC plays- NONE. YAC is on the player not the play call

If a QB sees a CB playing 12 yards off .... the Desai cushion ....   and he audibles to a quick pass at the line and the WR runs for yardage.... would that be a YAC creation play?   Or just.... " hey look at that idiot playing 12 yards off, here go get some yards since you won't be touched any time soon"?  But statistically speaking... that guy will get some gift YAC to pad his stats.  So will the QB.  Gift completion and gift yards.

Maybe we need GAC ... gift after catch?   

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

We were talking about Smith

Earlier this offseason I was mentioning a backup in this role for Goedert if that’s what you referring to

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

We were talking about Smith

Smith is not a BU nor a blocker for Goedert(or Hurts) he is a slot WR

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

If a QB sees a CB playing 12 yards off .... the Desai cushion ....   and he audibles to a quick pass at the line and the WR runs for yardage.... would that be a YAC creation play?   Or just.... " hey look at that idiot playing 12 yards off, here go get some yards since you won't be touched any time soon"?  But statistically speaking... that guy will get some gift YAC to pad his stats.  So will the QB.  Gift completion and gift yards.

Maybe we need GAC ... gift after catch?   

I was thinking more designed YAC plays where you have picks, blockers or clear outs to open up the run after catch potential.

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

If a QB sees a CB playing 12 yards off .... the Desai cushion ....   and he audibles to a quick pass at the line and the WR runs for yardage.... would that be a YAC creation play?   Or just.... " hey look at that idiot playing 12 yards off, here go get some yards since you won't be touched any time soon"?  But statistically speaking... that guy will get some gift YAC to pad his stats.  So will the QB.  Gift completion and gift yards.

Maybe we need GAC ... gift after catch?   

Yeah,technically it would be YAC but that doesn't require a "specialist"  That's just free yardage

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Smith is not a BU nor a blocker for Goedert(or Hurts) he is a slot WR

DeVonta was the guy we turned to without Goedert on these plays last season

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

DeVonta was the guy we turned to without Goedert on these plays last season

He’s capable but not what we really want from him. He’s so great at route running and doing other more crucial tasks.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

designed

Right you can design plays to accentuate things but it's on the player,there are no YAC plays called

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Smith is not a BU nor a blocker for Goedert(or Hurts) he is a slot WR

Alright so No Mas identifies with these plays with the screen pass. So let’s say we have two WR at the line of scrimmage and one guy behind them to catch and run with the screen pass. Could that guy catching that be TE Goedert, WR Smith or RB Shipley? Does it matter what positional label is tagged to the YAC creation specialist?

5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I know it’s a bit more out of the box thinking. That just because Goedert runs certain plays must mean the next man up would be TE2. But that’s just not the case in these specific play types for what’s needed. Frankly it’s unusual for a TE to be that guy in the first place. But Goedert’s been good at this role. It’s been even more highlighted by the fact we haven’t had anybody else that could fulfill the role. 
  Once again…not TE role…YAC creation role.

Its unusual for a TE to catch a screen pass?    I had a game called NFL challenge... 1980s on my Radio Shack Tandy Computer .... the game consisted of play calls for defense and offense. One of the effective plays was 4-6 ... formation 4 (single back double TE... single back was the FB... due to the popularity of the Redskins one back formation with Riggins) ... play 6 was a TE screen.   That's 40 years ago.

Celek used to be great at those plays. Andy had a lot of those plays too... Lewis, LJ etc.    I think maybe because Ertz wasn't that type of guy, that all of a sudden Goedert seems like he runs a lot of those... but I don't think it's any amount out of the ordinary.  

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Alright so No Mas identifies with these plays with the screen pass. So let’s say we have two WR at the line of scrimmage and one guy behind them to catch and run with the screen pass. Could that guy catching that be TE Goedert, WR Smith or RB Shipley? Does it matter what positional label is tagged to the YAC creation specialist?

It's a play call. NONE are "specialists" You run the PLAY

A TE fakes like he is pass protecting... then he catches a screen pass... not really out of he box thinking.   It's just focusing on 6 to 10 of Goedert's 1000 or so snaps.   And again, DIFFERENT conversation.   Not out of the box... or I'm smarter than you... just simply a different conversation.  

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

It's a play call. NONE are "specialists" You run the PLAY

Its a grouping of play calls relying on a player that can create with the ball in his hands

2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

It's a play call. NONE are "specialists" You run the PLAY

You said ASmith was a BU for Goedert,there is NO WAY he is that. Now if you want to call a PLAY for Asmith thats fine,doesn't make him a "specialist" nor a replacement for Goedert

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Alright so No Mas identifies with these plays with the screen pass. So let’s say we have two WR at the line of scrimmage and one guy behind them to catch and run with the screen pass. Could that guy catching that be TE Goedert, WR Smith or RB Shipley? Does it matter what positional label is tagged to the YAC creation specialist?

Yes.. .because they would be labeled in the playbook differently to identify who catches the ball.... RB screen, X screen, Y screen, Z screen, TE screen etc.   

But yes.... in addition to Goedert, now we should have more players to get screen passes because we know Julio and Quez weren't going to get to many.   Awesome... we all agree about those 5 plays out of the 1200 or so we will run.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Its a grouping of play calls relying on a player that can create with the ball in his hands

So you are talking about a play that gives players SPACE. It's up to the player to execute that,it's not a YAC play call,it's  a PLAY CALL

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So you are talking about a play that gives players SPACE. It's up to the player to execute that,it's not a YAC play call,it's  a PLAY CALL

On screens that is on your O line(or TE/RB in some cases) to create the blocks for the player. 

I'm calling a screen and my blockers don't block I don;t care who has the ball they aren't "specialist" enough to get the yards without other players help

Just now, joemas6 said:

A TE fakes like he is pass protecting... then he catches a screen pass... not really out of he box thinking.   It's just focusing on 6 to 10 of Goedert's 1000 or so snaps.   And again, DIFFERENT conversation.   Not out of the box... or I'm smarter than you... just simply a different conversation.  

Many more plays than just that one on this grouping. I’m not trying to come off as smarter than anybody here. Just trying to figure out a way to explain my point. Which honestly has been much more difficult than I ever would have expected. Mostly because you guys getting caught up on labels. I always specifically was saying it wasn’t about all the plays becoming TE2 I was talking about. Very specifically talking about a set group of playcalls that rely on YAC creation. But somehow you guys keep getting stuck on if it’s the next option after Goedert for these plays I must be talking about TE2 and how is this WR or Rb going to inline block…and all these holdups. Frankly maybe it’s not I’m smarter than anybody situation…probably I just can’t communicate effectively enough my point some how. But I’ve tried. I do see it as a key point. The team seemed to recognize the exact same thing and targeted Smith and Shipley for the role.

4 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Yes.. .because they would be labeled in the playbook differently to identify who catches the ball.... RB screen, X screen, Y screen, Z screen, TE screen etc.   

But yes.... in addition to Goedert, now we should have more players to get screen passes because we know Julio and Quez weren't going to get to many.   Awesome... we all agree about those 5 plays out of the 1200 or so we will run.

I think what is happening here is Ham's use of the word specialist,at least for me