Trading Wentz is stupid, how many top 5 QBs flop? Don't assume he's easily replaced.

Best move is keep the OL intact for another year to let Mailata, Dillard, Driscoll, Herbig, Juriga, Prince grow up and draft another OL or two to develop. Reason is if you want to salvage Wentz, develop Hurts or bring in a young QB in a year or two you MUST have a good OL - better to lose 40-30 each week and develop an offense, then use draft picks and free agents to rebuild the defense in one off season. But if you have a sieve of an OL, no young QB has a chance.

The OL is the key to offense, then the QB, finally skill players. If you can't block, All Pro WRs have little value.

Move money and age off the defense, clear out the cap over the next two years and bring in a lot of youth, SFAs, late round pick trades for young guys buried on other rosters, etc.

A lot of defenses have jelled over a season with young players drafted in the middle rounds and SFAs, with a good offense they just have to make plays not be a brick wall.

 

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Patriots, 49ers, Colts are the three top ones that come to mind

I think the Colts and the Niners make the most sense.

The Colts because Frank reich is there. Legitimately that team is just a good quarterback away from being able to compete with the Chiefs. They have a defense that’s capable enough of holding the Chiefs and being able to establish the run like they did last year to win a game against them. That’s the team if I’m the Chiefs I don’t wanna have to face in the playoffs. Because if the Chiefs don’t stop the run and Indianapolis can force their will with their offensive line the Chiefs could be in trouble.

The Niners might be in a position to give up draft capital to get the quarterback because that team when they get healthy next year has all the pieces on defense and offense to be a Super Bowl contender. They like the Colts are missing a quarterback. Jimmy G in my opinion isn’t good enough to win you win a Super Bowl if you need to get into a shoot out. We don’t if Carson Wentz is that anymore but I’d rather take my chances on his ability then Jimmy Garoppolo. Plus I am very curious to see how Kyle Shanahan would use Carson Wentz in that offense and how he would tailor it to what his strengths are with the wide receiving corps that he would have.

6 minutes ago, RLC said:

I honestly think Denver makes the most sense. They have cap space, a desire to run the ball and want a veteran QB to replace Lock. If they can't get Stafford, it pretty much leaves Wentz.

Another option. Maybe even Bears too.

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

If Sewell is there I’m guessing that’s who the eagles go with. I don’t think they’d pass up on that type of LT if he fell into their laps. Organizationally i don’t see them doing that. However i don’t see him falling past 3 where the bengals likely sit. It’s going to come down to chase, surtain, trey lance, pass rusher from Miami and byu QB in our current spot. I’m guessing since they talked glowingly about hurts last draft and have wentz they aren’t going QB. I would say the kid from Miami but I don’t think he’s like a Joey Bosa or a Nick Bosa or Chubb (Denver) where he’s in that same class. I think he needs to put on some more weight and it’s going to take him time to become the player you expect him to.

So to me I would get it down to chase or surtain. With the way the NFL is and the fact that I don’t think the wide receiving group is all that great even if Jalen reagor pans out to what they thought. I would go chase. Again I don’t love going wide receiver in round one two years in a row and won the previous year in round two. But the Eagles are in the luxury of getting to pick and choose what position they want to go after that fits a need and they need to just go after who the best available player is when they’re picking. 

Mailata is only 23, what makes you think Sewell will be better at LT than Mailata in a year or two?

Mailata is a world class athlete for LT, the only guy I can think of with his combination size, power and body control was Jonathon Ogden.

6 minutes ago, metal said:

Slay is "day to day" but "should be fine" according to Doug. Everyone except Davion Taylor should be available for the next game.

I thought he said Taylor is out for an extended period of time?

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Trading Wentz is stupid, how many top 5 QBs flop? Don't assume he's easily replaced.

Best move is keep the OL intact for another year to let Mailata, Dillard, Driscoll, Herbig, Juriga, Prince grow up and draft another OL or two to develop. Reason is if you want to salvage Wentz, develop Hurts or bring in a young QB in a year or two you MUST have a good OL - better to lose 40-30 each week and develop an offense, then use draft picks and free agents to rebuild the defense in one off season. But if you have a sieve of an OL, no young QB has a chance.

The OL is the key to offense, then the QB, finally skill players. If you can't block, All Pro WRs have little value.

Move money and age off the defense, clear out the cap over the next two years and bring in a lot of youth, SFAs, late round pick trades for young guys buried on other rosters, etc.

A lot of defenses have jelled over a season with young players drafted in the middle rounds and SFAs, with a good offense they just have to make plays not be a brick wall.

 

Let's see who starts against the Saints.

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I'm fairly confident Sewell is a lock for top 5, if not top 3. I don't see them being in play for him. Bengals make too much sense for him. Surtain or Farley seem like will be the Cowboys pick. 

Rousseau is the big red flag bust of the draft imo, and Eagles don't need another project.

Yeah the bengals would have to somehow figure out a way to win a game for that to happen. Not sure i see that happening. 

However there’s a chance the Eagles are picking higher than the Cowboys. That game in Dallas is not a sure fire waiting for the Eagles. If they lose that game and they lose out there picking higher than Dallas so they have a chance that they could be up against Chase or surtain. 

Yeah I’m not overly impressed with the defensive line group in the first round from based off the projections I saw and then going to watching some videos. Not that if we were picking later I wouldn’t think about taking some of them but where you’re going to be picking I don’t think it makes any sense. The only other thing I could see the Eagles doing is if someone is not there that they are in love with and somebody else around the league is I could see that movie back to stock pile picks. Not moving back massively but I can see movie back five or six slots to get a plethora more picks that this team needs

8 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Does Wentz's contract get more palatable for trade as more and more QBs get signed to new deals?

I'd prefer to keep him and work through this period, but there are other options.  I think.

For a team acquiring him, Wentz' contract would be very attractive - he's still relatively young, and has proven to be a player capable of being very good, with the right pieces around him.

If Wentz were traded in the new league year (assuming the Eagles can get under the cap to make trades like this possible)...

2021 - $25.4M ($15.4 salary - $10M roster bonus) - fully guaranteed  = Total cost $25.4M
2022 - $22M - no guarantee = Total cost $22M
2023 - $20M (with extra $5M roster bonus) - no guarantee = Total cost $25M
2024 - $21M (with extra $5M roster bonus) = Total Cost $26M

 

So, any team acquiring him gets 4 years of control at an average of $24.6M/year.   And, they are only on the hook for the money the first year.  (That's about 21st in the NFL for QB money.)

For comparison purposes:
Teddy Bridgewater carries a cap hit with the Panthers $24.5M/year on average over the next 2 years. 
Alex Smith carries a cap hit with Washington $24.3M/year over the next 2 years.

So, that's the level of contract he is for 4 years of control... and unlike Carolina and Washington, the team trading for Wentz can walk away scot free after 2021.  Carolina ($5M) and Washington ($4.3M) still have dead space if they cut them after 2021.

For all the people whining about signing Hargrave:

PFF PHI Eagles

 

Dec 5

 

The Eagles have 5 pass rushers with over 200 rush attempts with a 70+ grade. Brandon Graham: 82.8 Javon Hargrave: 79.6 Fletcher Cox 74.3 Josh Sweat: 72.3 Malik Jackson: 71.2

Does Wentz get an opportunity to start again after being benched to see what he has learned or do we turn the page completely 

it honestly seems like the type of situation where Wentz will go out there and somehow do worse after this

1 hour ago, Godfather said:

Imo, Cox will still be here. His contract is ugly and I believe a lot of dead money the Eagles will eat if traded. I fully expect Barnett to get an extension to lower his cap hit next year. Agreed on everyone else.

I guess given Howie so kindly restructured the Cox deal that probably does make it more difficult. My god Howie is an idiot, it's quite unbelievable really. 

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

For all the people whining about signing Hargrave:

PFF PHI Eagles

 

Dec 5

 

The Eagles have 5 pass rushers with over 200 rush attempts with a 70+ grade. Brandon Graham: 82.8 Javon Hargrave: 79.6 Fletcher Cox 74.3 Josh Sweat: 72.3 Malik Jackson: 71.2

He finally stepped up.  

4 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

Let's see who starts against the Saints.

I might start Hurts the rest of the season (of course, that means Pederson is doing right by the team, not himself), b/c why get Wentz beat up when Hurts can get needed game experience. Next year will be a clean slate with a new HC.

But Hurts isn't ready to start in the NFL, and that will become apparent, GB showed once you spied him and took away the scrambles, he had trouble making quick reads.

10 minutes ago, metal said:

I love how Doug says "I'm the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles right now". Cmon man.

Speaking like a man who knows the writing on the wall

I think Cox should be in the discussion for trade as well.

He's still an elite run defender as a pass rusher he's average at best. 

On Packers second td cox was single blocked he walks the guard a few steps back with a bull rush then stands straight up and plays party cake while rodgers has all day and finds tonyan In the end zone.

For a defense that relies on the D line to create pressure the guy on the D line that is paid 100 million dollars should get pressure on a single block yet far too often he does not.

Trade him while he still has value.

 

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

He finally stepped up.  

Those numbers are for the season before the GB game.

Hargrave has been our best DT since the break, he just needed time to adjust from a 2 gap to 1 gap scheme.

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

For all the people whining about signing Hargrave:

PFF PHI Eagles

 

Dec 5

 

The Eagles have 5 pass rushers with over 200 rush attempts with a 70+ grade. Brandon Graham: 82.8 Javon Hargrave: 79.6 Fletcher Cox 74.3 Josh Sweat: 72.3 Malik Jackson: 71.2

It's not Hargrave per se. It is Hargraves versus a starting-level WR, CB, OL, or LBs.

What I said was not advocating for trading Wentz. To me the early promise of what Wentz showed makes this season an outlier to me. I absolutely think he can be salvaged, but coaching staff changes and front office changes need to happen. We need a strong presence like Howie had before where he had power, but Joe Douglas also shared in that dynamic, the checks and balances are gone for Wentz, Howie and Doug and this year has proven that. All need better checks. Doug had Reich, Howie had Douglas, and Wentz had DeFilippo, now there are none of those. 

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

I might start Hurts the rest of the season (of course, that means Pederson is doing right by the team, not himself), b/c why get Wentz beat up when Hurts can get needed game experience. Next year will be a clean slate with a new HC.

But Hurts isn't ready to start in the NFL, and that will become apparent, GB showed once you spied him and took away the scrambles, he had trouble making quick reads.

If Hurts is the starter for the rest of the season, then Wentz is done in Philly. Wentz should demand a trade.

 

13 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Mailata is only 23, what makes you think Sewell will be better at LT than Mailata in a year or two?

Mailata is a world class athlete for LT, the only guy I can think of with his combination size, power and body control was Jonathon Ogden.

Jonathan Ogden is an all time great LT in the NFL. I like Mailata but people go way overboard with how great he can be. Yes he might have that type of athleticism but that never means he reaches that type of performance consistently in the NFL. It is very hard to get a Jonathan Ogden performance at left tackle. The fact that we had Jason peters and before him tra Thomas was a pretty good run for the Eagles. Do I think he could be a very good player? Yes I do. however I feel Sewell can play at a higher level than mailata now and i still think he has massive room to get better. 

you asked the question how do I know in two years if sewell is going to be better than mailata. How do I know in two years that Sewell isn’t massively better and i passed on him hoping mailata reached where he did and was projected? I’m not passing up a potential Sewell just cause i have mailata. 

 I can also move mailata to right tackle or Sewell to right tackle. lane Johnson plays right tackle but Johnson’s body is deteriorating and I don’t know how much longer he has. And I don’t trust dillard. I’ve been on here I don’t think he’s nearly as good as people on this message board seem to think he is. There was a reason why he fell in that draft. Because he was an older prospect and there were red flags about how much he truly love the game surrounding him and he fell. Now maybe he turns into a good left tackle or tackle in general but I’m not passing up on the opportunity to have a left and right tackle of Sewell and mailata because dillard may or may not be good enough.

Plus if dillard, Sewell and mailata are all good i can make a trade and get some good draft capital back. This isn’t the sixers drafting 3 centers in an nba that no longer revolves around center. Offensive linemen are at a premium in the NFL especially tackle. So I don’t think they would have any problem if all three of those guys wound up being good

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

He finally stepped up.  

Hey he took the coaching staff 13 weeks to finally run a jet sweep with Jalen reagor. Things are turning around i can feel it. Lol

26 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I've been studying this for a while, and they really can.

Brooks is tradable, and they can get some cap relief.  Sad part is that they won't get anything of value back.  Oh well.   Trade him for a conditional 7th, if need be. He's got a guaranteed $10.4M salary for 2021, but after that, he'd cost the new team nothing to drop.  And the new team could rework that deal to make it more palatable.  The question is: can the Eagles get a team to bite on him?  Only if he shows he can rebound from this Achilles like he did from the last one.  So far, that's on track.  He's a freak.

Lane is tradeable, but only after June 1.  But, they can move him and then eat the $21M in 2022.  But, not lose more money after that.   That gives him time to show he's healthy.  I figure he could be an early in-season trade and Mailata moves in to RT after about 4 weeks of Lane proving himself.

Graham is at his highest value with this season.  Some team desperate for a player like him would give up something to take him on.  And he costs them nothing after 2021.  He'd be a great option for a team that misses on their target on draft day for some DL help.  Downside for the Eagles is that they'd save only $700k in 2021, but would save the full $12M for 2022 that he's due with those empty years Howie tacked on the end.  And a team taking him on has zero risk, as his salary ($13M) is not guaranteed.  They could drop him for nothing if they needed to, or again, could renegotiate to get 2 years out of him for a lower than league average cost per year.

Slay has to be moved.  Saves $6M, but again, gets you out of the dead years.  At a cost to the new team of only $12.5M, he's a bargain.  There will be a market... and again, no risk beyond 2021 for the acquiring team... 

Cox is movable.. if they can get a good return, but would only save $2.8M.   But, again, they'd be freeing up all that money in 2022.

 

This team will need some gutting of some sort or another to get under the cap anyway... so, they might as well rip all the bandaids off at once... let the blood flow, take the hit really hard in 2021... and start to rebuild in earnest in 2022.  And if you rip it down to the slab (there are no studs left on this foundation), this team will likely be back in the top 5 next draft for another shot at a QB... because it will be unlikely that ripping off all these duct tape repairs and aging veterans will allow this team to win more than about 3 or maybe 4 games.   So, you just take the Nestea plunge and do it the quick, but painful way.

 

 

Excellent - I may be convinced but I am still concerned that if we put out an O-line with the same problems that the team has had this season you will harm the QB. 

9 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I think Cox should be in the discussion for trade as well.

He's still an elite run defender as a pass rusher he's average at best. 

On Packers second td cox was single blocked he walks the guard a few steps back with a bull rush then stands straight up and plays party cake while rodgers has all day and finds tonyan In the end zone.

For a defense that relies on the D line to create pressure the guy on the D line that is paid 100 million dollars should get pressure on a single block yet far too often he does not.

Trade him while he still has value.

 

Been saying that for a year.  There isn't one player on the team who should be listed as untouchable.  MAYBE Mailata based on his potential and position he plays.  Otherwise, unload any and everyone on this team.

7 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Hey he took the coaching staff 13 weeks to finally run a jet sweep with Jalen reagor. Things are turning around i can feel it. Lol

I also don't recall a screen pass to Ward yesterday 

8 hours ago, austinfan said:

Those numbers are for the season before the GB game.

Hargrave has been our best DT since the break, he just needed time to adjust from a 2 gap to 1 gap scheme.

And?   Was DT the biggest need going into this season?   Wouldn't a CB like Bradberry, without giving up any draft capital have been money better spent?  And cost about the same as Hargrave?   Or... crazy idea, get Bradberry and Slay and then teams can't throw away from one side... not that they've been doing that with Slay.  They are attacking him right now.

 

It's a matter of roster construction.   Add another high priced salary along the DL... or use that money to try to fix the back 7?  Or bring in Robbie Anderson to give the QB some help, instead of relying on old players coming back from injury like Desean and Alshon... who are... surprise surprise... injured again.

 

But, hey... Cox, Jackson, Hargrave, and Graham... that's a great use of money for 2021.  Cox ($24M), Jackson ($13.6M), Graham ($17.9M), Hargrave ($15.2M).   And let's look at the dead money... if traded/cut... Cox($21M+ dead either way), Jackson($12.6M either way), Graham($17.2M either way), Hargrave(traded $9.8M/cut $22.5M).

Over $70M for 4 players all on the DL.  And if we try to 'trim the fat', nothing really changes for the salary cap... Save a couple mill here trading Cox, basically break even this year with Jackson and Graham off the books, and trading Hargrave would save $6M.  What a mess.

Sure, the DL looks better than the rest of the D... because all the money is there.