35 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I just came across some 2017 Wentz highlighs. Its frickin sad. The magnitude of the "what if" can not be explained. Its yuge.

I think there are a bunch of posters in this thread who do not understand how good he was.

When you see the escapability. Its unmatched even by what we have today.

The deep balls, those WRs are running under them in stride. Not adjusting their strides to try to stay under them.

The throws on the run. The way he kept his eyes down field and found guys. We dont get that now.

And even in the pocket. Looking off defenders. The shoulder fakes and pump fakes. That level of nuance is not in the game for us currently.

Even in Jalen Hurts best game which has to be the super bowl against the Chiefs that we lost, he was accurate as heck. But the nuances that he lacks... he still wasnt on the level of Wentz QBing in his prime.

This is actually not to knock Hurts this time. Wentz was unbelievably good. We were going to have a truly great QB who would be in discussion for top QB in the league each and every year.

I’m an NDSU alum and I was never a big Wentz fan. It always annoyed me in 2017 how even though he almost won MVP, he only completed 60% of his passes which was bad for just about any other QB. Also how we got played out of the stadium by KC and Seattle that year. Those games were humiliating. The tear we went on to win the SB was pretty shocking and Wentz was definitely really good that season, but I don’t think it was better than Hurts’ 2022 or Mcnabb’s 2004.

I also think Hurts’ best game was his 19 of 23 158.3 game last year, but degree of difficulty in the SB probably pushes it to your answer

14 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Carson Wentz never played any games that were better at QB than Jalen Hurts in both Super Bowls and the 2024 NFC Championship Game. Plus a number of regular season games too for Hurts.

Hurts threw the ball perfectly that day. But the point is, Wentz still played the position on a whole other level. Im not debating single game stats. Hurts got that that day. Im talking overall talent, AND skill, full grasp of all the nuances of the position.... Looking back on the wentz tape years later wows you.

2 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

I’m an NDSU alum and I was never a big Wentz fan. It always annoyed me in 2017 how even though he almost won MVP, he only completed 60% of his passes which was bad for just about any other QB. Also how we got played out of the stadium by KC and Seattle that year. Those games were humiliating. The tear we went on to win the SB was pretty shocking and Wentz was definitely really good that season, but I don’t think it was better than Hurts’ 2022 or Mcnabb’s 2004.

I also think Hurts’ best game was his 19 of 23 158.3 game last year, but degree of difficulty in the SB probably pushes it to your answer

His super bowl was better than his perfect game. He was still protected in that perfect game. QB rating doesnt account for plenty of mistakes. It doesnt account for the easy completions close to the LOS, scrambling out of bounds instead of putting an incompletion on the record....

Super bowl was a far better performance. But its not about single game stats. Im just saying you watch Wentz, all the tools, all the things he did to manipulate defenses, the size, the athleticism, the arm... He had the full package.

He was a guy who elevates a team. Hurts is a guy who carries out a simplified plan and you hope he doesnt make any mistakes.

9 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

His super bowl was better than his perfect game. He was still protected in that perfect game. QB rating doesnt account for plenty of mistakes. It doesnt account for the easy completions close to the LOS, scrambling out of bounds instead of putting an incompletion on the record....

Super bowl was a far better performance. But its not about single game stats. Im just saying you watch Wentz, all the tools, all the things he did to manipulate defenses, the size, the athleticism, the arm... He had the full package.

He was a guy who elevates a team. Hurts is a guy who carries out a simplified plan and you hope he doesnt make any mistakes.

What you’re describing for Wentz is potential. He never really fully explored that potential, so it just ended up being stuff he didn’t do. People say he lost it when he got the concussion in 2019, but even before then he was never close to his 2017 form.

I’m just not a big potential guy, either you do it or you don’t do it. Brady didn’t have the potential, he just did it. I’m not the biggest Hurts guy in the world as he is a limited QB thus far in his career, but he didn’t have a whole lot of potential yet he’s doing it. Wentz had lots of potential, and maybe injuries were why he couldn’t do it, but it is what it is.

Just now, Aerolithe_Lion said:

What you’re describing for Wentz is potential. He never really fully explored that potential, so it just ended up being stuff he didn’t do. People say he lost it when he got the concussion in 2019, but even before then he was never close to his 2017 form.

I’m just not a big potential guy, either you do it or you don’t do it. Brady didn’t have the potential, he just did it. I’m not the biggest Hurts in the world as he is a limited QB thus far in his career, but he didn’t have a whole lot of potential but he’s doing it. Wentz had lots of potential, and maybe injuries were why he couldn’t do it, but it is what it is.

No. Im talking about what I saw when I just watched old plays of his. He did that stuff. You werent a big fan. I was. And even my eyes were opened wide by wathching those old highligts. Blew me away. I didnt even remember he was that good.

1 hour ago, HazletonEagle said:

I just came across some 2017 Wentz highlighs. Its frickin sad. The magnitude of the "what if" can not be explained. Its yuge.

I think there are a bunch of posters in this thread who do not understand how good he was.

When you see the escapability. Its unmatched even by what we have today.

The deep balls, those WRs are running under them in stride. Not adjusting their strides to try to stay under them.

The throws on the run. The way he kept his eyes down field and found guys. We dont get that now.

And even in the pocket. Looking off defenders. The shoulder fakes and pump fakes. That level of nuance is not in the game for us currently.

Even in Jalen Hurts best game which has to be the super bowl against the Chiefs that we lost, he was accurate as heck. But the nuances that he lacks... he still wasnt on the level of Wentz QBing in his prime.

This is actually not to knock Hurts this time. Wentz was unbelievably good. We were going to have a truly great QB who would be in discussion for top QB in the league each and every year.

Wentz struggled with throwing mechanics his entire career. Mechanics can often be fixed...and his throwing motion did get more compact in year 2. But he dropped his throwing hand with a loop-like motion and kept reverting back to that. That was far from his only problem, but it was a definite issue that he just couldn't shake.

I think Wentz had a better attitude than anyone gave him credit for. He was hypercompetitive as anyone would want their QB to be. He had a tendency to play hero ball and just didn't handle it well when they drafted Hurts in round 2. He lost the locker room when he just couldn't play clean football.

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

No. Im talking about what I saw when I just watched old plays of his. He did that stuff. You werent a big fan. I was. And even my eyes were opened wide by wathching those old highligts. Blew me away. I didnt even remember he was that good.

A big part of that is the highlight tapes will cut out all the bad stuff that you experienced when it was live. When the trivia question asks who had the most fumbles between 2016-2020, you know the answer. When they ask who managed to lead the league in interceptions despite only playing 12 games, we know the answer(s) (weirdly Dak has done that too). 2017 was his only 8 AY/A season, and he declined every year until 5(!) AY/A in 2020.

Yeah the highlights look great because they don’t show any of that. He had high highs but he was a flawed QB. Jalen isn’t perfect either but there is something to not giving the ball to the other team and letting your defense win.

I stopped really being a fan of players probably a decade ago. I don’t have a Favorite Eagle, I root for the team as a whole; getting rid of Foles and Shady and Desean made me realize that the players are just interchangeable pieces in a puzzle. I desire whatever concoction helps us win, and lately we’ve been winning (though could have been better last year). Jalen isn’t responsible for all of it, but I do think his play style relative to the way our team is built helps. If we had a guy who puts the ball on the turf once a game and throws a pick once a game or twice every 3 games we’re probably not doing as well as we are.

31 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

I’m an NDSU alum and I was never a big Wentz fan. It always annoyed me in 2017 how even though he almost won MVP, he only completed 60% of his passes which was bad for just about any other QB. Also how we got played out of the stadium by KC and Seattle that year. Those games were humiliating. The tear we went on to win the SB was pretty shocking and Wentz was definitely really good that season, but I don’t think it was better than Hurts’ 2022 or Mcnabb’s 2004.

I also think Hurts’ best game was his 19 of 23 158.3 game last year, but degree of difficulty in the SB probably pushes it to your answer

The heart break of your post is that Mcnabb's 2004, Wentz' 2017, and Hurts' 2022 were all singular seasons. All 3 QB's had these break out elite passing years and never sniffed them again.

Just now, eagle45 said:

The heart break of your post is that Mcnabb's 2004, Wentz' 2017, and Hurts' 2022 were all singular seasons. All 3 QB's had these break out elite passing years and never sniffed them again.

Can’t dispute that. It’s part of the reason people who want to say Hurts is our best ever QB have a point because we really haven’t had much better.

Just now, Aerolithe_Lion said:

A big part of that is the highlight tapes will cut out all the bad stuff that you experienced when it was live. When the trivia question asks who had the most fumbles between 2016-2020, you know the answer. When they ask who managed to lead the league in interceptions despite only playing 12 games, we know the answer(s) (weirdly Dak has done that too). 2017 was his only 8 AY/A season, and he declined every year until 5(!) AY/A in 2020.

Yeah the highlights look great because they don’t show any of that. He had high highs but he was a flawed QB. Jalen isn’t perfect either but there is something to not giving the ball to the other team and letting your defense win.

I stopped really being a fan of players probably a decade ago. I don’t have a Favorite Eagle, I root for the team as a whole. I desire whatever concoction helps us win, and lately we’ve been winning (though could have been better last year). Jalen isn’t responsible for all of it, but I don’t think his play style relative to the way our team is built helps. If we had a guy who puts the ball on the turf once a game and throws a pick once a game or twice every 3 games we’re probably not doing as well as we are.

Wentz became a huge problem but he wasnt at all in his first few years.

He was a gunslinger and we were going to have to live with some INTs for a load of great plays. Always felt he comped pretty well to Favre in that way. But his greatness and the offenses overall output with him at the helm made those occasional turnovers survivable.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

The heart break of your post is that Mcnabb's 2004, Wentz' 2017, and Hurts' 2022 were all singular seasons. All 3 QB's had these break out elite passing years and never sniffed them again.

Again though, its not about the stats and any particular breakout year. Watch Wentz QB in his prime, and watch Hurts QB even in his greatest game ever and there is a stark difference undeniably apparent in the command each player has on the position. Wentz really knew how to play the position like an elite QB. With Hurts, we hope he does the simple stuff and doesnt make any mistakes. When you SEE them play, its clear why

1 minute ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Can’t dispute that. It’s part of the reason people who want to say Hurts is our best ever QB have a point because we really haven’t had much better.

I'm a "Hurts hater" and he's, IMO, the most successful QB in franchise history. Mcnabb's got the best stats and his stats frankly aren't that good. One could argue who played at the highest level between peak Randal, 2004 Mcnabb, 2017 Wentz, 2022, Hurts (or even 2013 Foles)...but the QB that did the most was Hurts considering he had 2 SB appearances, played like a winner in both, and did have one big statistical season. IMO, that easily eclipses Mcnabb and Randall.

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Wentz became a huge problem but he wasnt at all in his first few years.

He was a gunslinger and we were going to have to live with some INTs for a load of great plays. Always felt he comped pretty well to Favre in that way. But his greatness and the offenses overall output with him at the helm made those occasional turnovers survivable.

I agree with that. If we got 2017 Wentz every year he’d still be here. Hurts is still here because 2023 a lot of people wrote him off and said he was done and we have to move on, and then we won in 2024. We don’t need him to be an MVP to win the SB, we just need him to be enough. So far he’s proven he can be enough, and we’ll see if he is in 2026. If he declines we can move off easily, but if 2026 continues the "11 wins is the floor” trend then he’ll be our QB for awhile

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Again though, its not about the stats and any particular breakout year. Watch Wentz QB in his prime, and watch Hurts QB even in his greatest game ever and there is a stark difference undeniably apparent in the command each player has on the position. Wentz really knew how to play the position like an elite QB. With Hurts, we hope he doesnt make any mistakes.

Sure. Wentz in his prime was more of a playmaker than Hurts, less dependent on what his teammates did for him. He could evade the rush jaw dropping highlights and put the ball on a line to a WR that wasn't even really open 30 yards downfield.

But he also couldn't consistently do that either. That brand of football, for him, produced an extreme amount of turnovers.

Silly debate.

Neither Wentz or Hurts has a game that is on the same level as Nick Foles Super Bowl victory.

6 minutes ago, Lambo said:

Silly debate.

Neither Wentz or Hurts has a game that is on the same level as Nick Foles Super Bowl victory.

That wasnt supposed to be the debate at all. I was just noting how freaking good Wentz was in his prime and what a gigantic what if that was. It was going to be him and Pat Mahomes in their own tier every year. He was that good. Dont really care about any singular game.

Cool to see a Fight Club reunion right now at the USA match.

49 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

That wasnt supposed to be the debate at all. I was just noting how freaking good Wentz was in his prime and what a gigantic what if that was. It was going to be him and Pat Mahomes in their own tier every year. He was that good. Dont really care about any singular game.

I think I came across the same or similar highlight reel on Facebook yesterday and I thought the same thing. That level of excitement from the QB position just doesn't exist with Hurts. It's fine, he doesn't need to with this team. But Wentz in 2017 was an absolute animal. He could make every throw, from any angle, across his body, didn't matter. Hitting guys in stride, stepping up in the pocket. That isn't Hurts' game.

I'll echo HE that it isn't a shot at Hurts. They're wildly different QBs, and Wentz's highs were so much higher than Hurts highs as a QB in terms of playing the QB position and making the throws. Sure Hurts had a game with a perfect passer rating, you can do that when you thrlw the ball 20 times a game. They had Wentz ripping that thing 30 times a game with *checks notes* alshon jeffrey and nelson agholor.

Wentz would have been a huge "what if", if we hadn't won that super bowl (or 59). But now he's just a small bit of wonder about what he could have been. Because without that knee injury he's winning MVP that season. Honestly, if this org gave him any semblance of a receiver corps in 2018 he probably doesn't crumble. They thought he could do it all himself, he tried, and he couldn't.

Tl;dr, not a comparison of who has better stats or who's a better QB. Hurts is fine, 2017 Wentz was transcendent

8 hours ago, BigEFly said:

My have to try one the next time I am in Dallas.

I'll meet you in McKinney...

Hutchins is in my Top 3 in Texas.

Oof

10 hours ago, Lambo said:

Silly debate.

Neither Wentz or Hurts has a game that is on the same level as Nick Foles Super Bowl victory.

Dueled the G.O.A.T. on Football's biggest stage - and won. Too bad he was so streaky.

12 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

His super bowl was better than his perfect game. He was still protected in that perfect game. QB rating doesnt account for plenty of mistakes. It doesnt account for the easy completions close to the LOS, scrambling out of bounds instead of putting an incompletion on the record....

Super bowl was a far better performance. But its not about single game stats. Im just saying you watch Wentz, all the tools, all the things he did to manipulate defenses, the size, the athleticism, the arm... He had the full package.

He was a guy who elevates a team. Hurts is a guy who carries out a simplified plan and you hope he doesnt make any mistakes.

Wentz was good for a couple seasons and we loved it, but you also thought Carson Strong was a viable NFL QB...and wouldn't let us forget it for months on end.