Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 minutes ago, time2rock said:

There was no clear logical strategy to the moves they've made over the past few seasons focused on working toward a vision ... they seem like nothing more than a collection of willy nilly random acts, flying by the seat of their pants kind of moves.  

Absolutely agree! What has been the vision? What has been the strategy and the approach? It seems lacking that's for sure. Why did they give Carson that huge contract and then in the very next draft take a QB in the second round? Why didn't they do more to give Wentz weapons?

[nipples]

14 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Hey I don't disagree but then if LT is the least of your concerns then why draft Sewell? We know Dillard can't play RT... 

I know everyone is saying it’s a no brainer to take Sewell if he falls, but I disagree. I think we are set at tackle. We need playmakers. Chase preferably if he’s there. I can also be talked into Smith or even Pitts there. I know we don’t need a TE in theory, but Pitts is a different breed. He can lineup all over the field. Such a rare combo of size and speed. Too fast for linebackers, too big and strong for DBs. 

[Infam]

15 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Absolutely agree! What has been the vision? What has been the strategy and the approach? It seems lacking that's for sure. Why did they give Carson that huge contract and then in the very next draft take a QB in the second round? Why didn't they do more to give Wentz weapons?

Well obviously Wentz was injured way to much. We needed a cheap security blanket with real potential.

Imagine we drafted a second round WR there (who?) you really think Wentz would have set the world on fire and all was well now? Come on!

Drafting hurts was one of the best picks in years. And if I am right and he proves to be our franchise from next year on.. can at least then all the haters of this pick shut up forever?

[UK_EaglesFan89]

4 minutes ago, nipples said:

I know everyone is saying it’s a no brainer to take Sewell if he falls, but I disagree. I think we are set at tackle. We need playmakers. Chase preferably if he’s there. I can also be talked into Smith or even Pitts there. I know we don’t need a TE in theory, but Pitts is a different breed. He can lineup all over the field. Such a rare combo of size and speed. Too fast for linebackers, too big and strong for DBs. 

I'm not sure we are set at OT but I would agree that a true legit playmaker needs to be HIGH on the list of priorities.

[time2rock]

17 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Absolutely agree! What has been the vision? What has been the strategy and the approach? It seems lacking that's for sure. Why did they give Carson that huge contract and then in the very next draft take a QB in the second round? Why didn't they do more to give Wentz weapons?

They completely overreact to needs.  They felt the need for a better backup (after Foles left and watching McCown struggle) so they overreact and use a high pick on one.  They felt the need to add speed so they completely overreact and use 3 picks on speedy WRs rather than just focusing on adding very good (productive) football players.  

[SBorBust]

9 hours ago, Uscg-green said:

We get to look forward to an extra piddling mid third round pick this draft that Howie will screw anyway. Score! Super Bowlzzz!!!!!

Everyone is allowed their own opinion, but not their own facts. You didn’t mention the 1st/2nd round pick next year.

[brkmsn]

23 minutes ago, time2rock said:

There was no clear logical strategy to the moves they've made over the past few seasons focused on working toward a vision ... they seem like nothing more than a collection of willy nilly random acts, flying by the seat of their pants kind of moves.  

Most of the moves seemed logical to me.

Coming off the 2017 season, the vision was to remain a Super Bowl contender. Our 2018 draft was a BPA philosophy since we had a SB winning roster. We lost Burton (FA) and Celek (Cap-casualty / retired) and added depth on the lines and at DB. We appeared to upgrade at WR by trading T. Smith and his contract and signing Mike Wallace. We replaced FA departures, Curry and Allen with Bennett and Ngata. 

In 2019, we clearly had a need at RB, traded for Howard and drafted Sanders. We also drafted Dillard to be the replacement for Peters. We also traded for DJax and Ridgeway and brought M. Jackson and Curry in through free agency to bolster the D-line. 

In 2020, the focus was to bring in speed. 

After all that has happened, the plan (as described by Lurie) is no longer to get "2017 back again." It's to rebuild. 

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

This team never had any clear direction, I don't think even they knew how they won that super bowl. After the development of Wentz derailed they didn't know how to get it back on track. They just made one stupid move after another to get it back to where it was in 2017 pre Wentz injury. 

They won the bowl and for the next three seasons did nothing but scramble to try and keep that going by giving contracts to older player. It was like the Phillies after their World Series win. They were just trying to keep the "new norm” going even though Howie was horrible at drafting players. 

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, Uscg-green said:

The team starts at the QB position. And the O line. 

No it doesn’t. This team won a SB with a backup quarterback. I bet if you look at the draft over the past 20 years you will find that most of those teams won SB with quarterbacks who weren’t drafted in the top five. Scrambling to get a quarterback early when the team isn’t ready will just lead us to be quarterback chasing like the Browns or having the "franchise quarterback” but winning nothing with him like the Lions. Build a team and eventually get the quarterback. 

[mihailo]

7 minutes ago, SBorBust said:

Everyone is allowed their own opinion, but not their own facts. You didn’t mention the 1st/2nd round pick next year.

Is there even much reason to? If they plan on sticking with Howie a 1st/2nd is worth bugger all any way.

[time2rock]

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

No it doesn’t. This team won a SB with a backup quarterback. I bet if you look at the draft over the past 20 years you will find that most of those teams won SB with quarterbacks who weren’t drafted in the top five. Scrambling to get a quarterback early when the team isn’t ready will just lead us to be quarterback chasing like the Browns or having the "franchise quarterback” but winning nothing with him like the Lions. Build a team and eventually get the quarterback. 

That's because almost half of those were won with the same QB drafted in the 6th round. 

 

[EazyEaglez]

1 minute ago, time2rock said:

That's because almost half of those were won with the same QB drafted in the 6th round. 

 

Kind of the point I’m making though. People get obsessed with this idea of needing to draft a quarterback early and the truth is you don’t really have to. Heck that first SB by Brady he wasn’t even that good. He had a bomb squad built around him. The same for Russell Wilson. Now that they paid Wilson all that money they can barley field a defense. There’s a stat since 2009-2016 none of the quarterbacks drafted in the first round are still with their original teams. It’s like 22 quarterbacks. 

[Infam]

I know this opinion probably is unpopular, but I think it could be wise to draft another QB in the third. He'll prolly lose to Hurts, but we would then have a real backup on the cheap.

I would like Newman. How about that colts third?

[brkmsn]

3 minutes ago, Infam said:

I know this opinion probably is unpopular, but I think it could be wise to draft another QB on day 2. He'll prolly lose to Hurts, but we would then have a real backup on the cheap.

I would like Newman.

I won't be surprised if we use at least 1 pick on a QB, but I think our #2 QB should have some NFL experience. Now that Wentz is gone, and Sudfeld didn't exactly dazzle the world with his 4th quarter heroics, we could bring him back for another year cheap. But Hurts could benefit from a vet around him more than Sudfeld or a rookie. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

You aren’t going to get any argument from me about Howie drafting well, but you also know he’s going nowhere. We have two options now. We hope he finds a way to kill it in the draft over the next few years or hope he fails so miserably Lurie is forced to fire him. 

The Wentz failure, combined with the past few drafts, would be enough to fire any other GM in the league.  That seems to point at Lurie being more involved than we want to think and sharing the blame.  He feels too guilty to can Howie for processes he was involved in.  We may have a Jerrah situation on our hands.

[Outlaw]

48 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Hey I don't disagree but then if LT is the least of your concerns then why draft Sewell? We know Dillard can't play RT... 

Because he's the BPA in this draft after Lawrence, and it's not even close.  Kid is a generational talent.  Between him, Dillard and Mailata you have both T spots covered and a swing T for years to come.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I won't be surprised if we use at least 1 pick on a QB, but I think our #2 QB should have some NFL experience. Now that Wentz is gone, and Sudfeld didn't exactly dazzle the world with his 4th quarter heroics, we could bring him back for another year cheap. But Hurts could benefit from a vet around him more than Sudfeld or a rookie. 

I still hope they are looking for a starter on the market versus an experienced backup.  Either way, they need some experience in the QB room.

[EazyEaglez]

Just now, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

The Wentz failure, combined with the past few drafts, would be enough to fire any other GM in the league.  That seems to point at Lurie being more involved than we want to think and sharing the blame.  He feels too guilty to can Howie for processes he was involved in.  We may have a Jerrah situation on our hands.

Howie should have been fired after the Marcus Smith debacle. Heck they should have dumped him after Danny Watkins. Now we hear of rumors that Lurie is indeed drafting players now and is responsible for the JJAW pick. It’s not a good look. 

[RastaPasta]

3 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Howie should have been fired after the Marcus Smith debacle. Heck they should have dumped him after Danny Watkins. Now we hear of rumors that Lurie is indeed drafting players now and is responsible for the JJAW pick. It’s not a good look. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

42 minutes ago, time2rock said:

They completely overreact to needs.  They felt the need for a better backup (after Foles left and watching McCown struggle) so they overreact and use a high pick on one.  They felt the need to add speed so they completely overreact and use 3 picks on speedy WRs rather than just focusing on adding very good (productive) football players.  

Seems like a pretty reasonable assessment to me yep!

[DBW]

9 hours ago, brkmsn said:

No coach would "disrespect" the game of football like that.

So you’re saying You don’t think Howie has an incentive tracker app on his phone and didn’t ever call duce on the sidelines to say he needs to rotate in scott and clement more?  😂 

[Outlaw]

41 minutes ago, Infam said:

I know this opinion probably is unpopular, but I think it could be wise to draft another QB in the third. He'll prolly lose to Hurts, but we would then have a real backup on the cheap.

I would like Newman. How about that colts third?

I'd like Trask.  QB room of Hurts/Brissett/Trask is a mix of young talent and experience in Siri's system.

[The Blackfish]

5 minutes ago, DBW said:

So you’re saying You don’t think Howie has an incentive tracker app on his phone and didn’t ever call duce on the sidelines to say he needs to rotate in scott and clement more?  😂 

That’s what he did in college to Ricky Watters, lowering his carries from 353 in ‘96 to 280 in ‘97, so he couldn’t hit incentives and or paid in FA. Dude had 3, 1200yd seasons after he left, damn Howie Roseman to hell I say!!!!

[JBENT87]

58 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Most of the moves seemed logical to me.

Coming off the 2017 season, the vision was to remain a Super Bowl contender. Our 2018 draft was a BPA philosophy since we had a SB winning roster. We lost Burton (FA) and Celek (Cap-casualty / retired) and added depth on the lines and at DB. We appeared to upgrade at WR by trading T. Smith and his contract and signing Mike Wallace. We replaced FA departures, Curry and Allen with Bennett and Ngata. 

In 2019, we clearly had a need at RB, traded for Howard and drafted Sanders. We also drafted Dillard to be the replacement for Peters. We also traded for DJax and Ridgeway and brought M. Jackson and Curry in through free agency to bolster the D-line. 

In 2020, the focus was to bring in speed. 

After all that has happened, the plan (as described by Lurie) is no longer to get "2017 back again." It's to rebuild. 

some much needed context, thanks. Adding to 2020, the Marquise Goodwin opt out, as just an okay a player as he is, also dramatically altered the "speed" vision for last years team. The idea for last season was DeSean, Goodwin, Reagor stretching the field with Ertz, Goedert, Sanders and eventually returning Alshon underneath. DSJ not staying health and Goodwin bouncing doomed that from the start. 

I heard someone on the radio probably say this a few months back, but everyone would've said ill sacrifice the next 5-10 years to win a SB didn't they? That's legitimately what we've gone through with the injuries over the last few years, now culminating with the Wentz debacle.  

[EazyEaglez]

3 minutes ago, The Blackfish said:

That’s what he did in college to Ricky Watters, lowering his carries from 353 in ‘96 to 280 in ‘97, so he couldn’t hit incentives and or paid in FA. Dude had 3, 1200yd seasons after he left, damn Howie Roseman to hell I say!!!!

I don’t think that was Howie. Seems more like Joe Banner.