1 hour ago, justrelax said:

Just got back from Mexico. Loved it. 

Skimmed the draft comments. Some of you folks are crazy. Considering that Howie was loading up for 2022, this was a great draft. All the whining about not drafting mediocre cornerbacks over BPA made me ill. We may well suck this season, making our picks all the better in 2022. Perspective, people. Kudos to HE for some really perceptive remarks about it. 

And razzies to the posters who didn’t like picks because they didn’t know who they were. This is the partner to the free agent comment we see time and again: "Ooo, I heard of him, let’s get him.”

If if if Dickerson is healthy at some point in 2021 or all of 2022 and thereafter, he’s an incredible bargain. He’s almost Shawn Andrews level who, we may recall missed all of his first season excepting the first quarter against the Giants.

Big if for certain. If if.

I think I was pretty clear that I didn’t like Creed much if at all. Played A gap to A gap. In a limited area like that Dickerson is way more powerful. If healthy, he’s more mobile too, which is hard to believe in a guy that big. I could care less that he’s as tall as he is. Nobody is going to bulldoze him. Quite the contrary. He’s got a punch like Shawn and Peters. I don’t know what he benched but he might still be going.

I thought it was a great draft, much better and more disciplined than I expected.

And yes, Afan was right about the trade of two bottom of the barrel picks for a fifth in 2022 as being highway robbery. Normally a fifth this year is worth a fourth next year. This year, given the pool,  a fifth this year year is as good as a fourth+ Next year., if not more. And we gave up a mid 7th round value for that.

Well, I was one of the ones complaining about not getting a second CB and a S.  It’s just that was the depth of this draft.  Unlike some others, I like the McPhearson pick.  He is a #2 CB all day to Slay.  He’s an Al Harris type but a bit shorter. Note that CBs that excell in the NFL come from all levels in the draft.  With the right guidance, I think Zech is one of those.  Frankly, the S I wanted went before our second pick.

I would not have grabbed one of the second round DBs over other choices and if (big IF), Dickerson is healthy and stays healthy, he was the best C/G in the draft. But I would have grabbed Gowan (surprised at his slide) or Vincent (who I think would be a better nickel than Maddox) with one of those latter picks.  

I am intrigued that for Gannon they drafted a DE/DT tweener with phenomenal athleticism, a NT, a Barnett clone, a S/LB and an off ball LB/DE.  This D is going to not be a Zimmer clone entirely as I see those picks.  I really miss Lehigh.  I would love to see some of the base install for this D.  Football, done right, is a chess game and I haven’t been this excited about a group of defensive coaches and scheme since JJ died.

Glad you and your wife had a great time. That ocean is so beautiful  there.  

 I am one week from shot two and three weeks from getting my wanderlust on.  I am trying to talk the wife into heading to Texas to see her dad and my sister and a cousin and let her get her island time on Galveston.  Then, if she is willing, on to NM through the Davis mountains area, to Carlsbad, Las Cruces up towards Albuquerque, Taos and Santa Fe through the Sangre de Christo mountains, the San Juan’s, Mesa Verde, Million Dollar highway, Durango to Silverton on the narrow gauge, over to Vail, up to Estes Park for the columbine meadow, the Black Canyon etc. It’s been a while since I was in NM and CO.  I need some religion, which is sitting above the tree line watching the afternoon thunderstorms rolling in and timing it to get to the trees in time.   Her brother lives in Wichita so back our way through there and the iron hills.  (If I can talk her into it, north and over the border for a trip around the lakes.)  I told her that after over a year of no travel, I will come home when I burn out the wanderlust a bit.  

 

1 hour ago, HazletonEagle said:

In my opinion, JJAW always fit in best here as a big slot. Now, with the Ausbon UDFA signing, I see him as a carbon copy of JJAW (college version).

Hes not that athletic. He doesnt create separation. He knows how to use his body, and hands to make a contested catch.

I would love if our WR competitions broke down like this:

Slot- Ward, JJAW, Ausbon

X- Smith, Fulgham, Grimes

Z- Reagor, Quez, Hightower

With that type if alignment, I think Ausbon has a clear shot at the roster as a backup slot, who can maybe play X in emergency scenario. I think he and Ward could conceivably knock JJAW out. 

It makes Grimes and Hightower the 2 remaining long shots to make the roster. Grimes might win that considering his speed, and ability to actually catch the ball.

Crossed out the names of the cuts to show my predicted final depth chart. If 7 WRs sounds like maybe too much, consider that Quez could become the KR. 

 

 

I am curious as to what these WR centric coaches do.  I think JJAW and Ausbon may become HBacks. At X, I see Smith and Fulgham. At Z Reagor and Quez.  At slot, Ward and Hightower. But I see every player playing multiple positions. 

3 hours ago, eagle45 said:

I think Smith, Reagor, and Watkins are the 3 most talented WRs on the team with the most potential.  I’d like to see a future with those 3 on the field together.

Yep.  100% agree.  Fulgham showed some flashes early, if he improves this year, solid #4 imo.

11 hours ago, ManuManu said:

This is the guy the Eagles pay real money to?

4 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

Geez, you guys are already pencilling Grimes in for the 53 man roster? His odds of winning the Nasty Nate just keep going up.

Oh yeah ppl in here are talking about him like he should have been a 3rd round pick. He’s definitely the front runner 

DS should be an early favorite for ROTY given the amount of garbage time looks he’s going to get. 

The #WFT 2021 draft class had 8 elite #RAS athletes. This is tied for the 4th most all time (out of 1,076 draft classes). Only the 99 Bears (9), 04 Titans (9), and 18 Packers (10!) had more.

 

 

5 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

Yep.  100% agree.  Fulgham showed some flashes early, if he improves this year, solid #4 imo.

This is why it's so frustrating not having any mini camps right now.  These young WR need as many reps as they can get with this new staff.  They would have benefitted from the reps if the same coaching staff was still here. 

The thing about Fulgham is that his flashes weren't just that of a good WR.  He flashed dominance.  Go back and watch his highlights.  There are plays he make that no other WR has made for the Eagles in the last 5 years (save Alshons SB52 TD catch).  He was plucking the ball out of the air, contorting his body to make difficult catches, stiff arming guys just looking unstoppable.  

Can Nick and his coaches wake that guy up and get him to do that on a consistent basis or was that just the biggest mirage we've ever seen?

Smith, Reagor, Watkins and Fulgham are my guys at the top right now.  I would have LOVED to tap in to the deep slot WR draft class to replace Ward but so be it.  

13 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

The #WFT 2021 draft class had 8 elite #RAS athletes. This is tied for the 4th most all time (out of 1,076 draft classes). Only the 99 Bears (9), 04 Titans (9), and 18 Packers (10!) had more.

 

 

The one thing they didn't do is grab a QB otherwise their draft is very good.  They added more weapons to that defense, got an absolute burner in Dyami Brown to go with McLaurin (we need to get used to reading he back of out CB's jerseys) and Cosmi is a very good addition to the o-line.

The entire NFCE had very solid drafts unfortunately.

4 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

The one thing they didn't do is grab a QB otherwise their draft is very good.  They added more weapons to that defense, got an absolute burner in Dyami Brown to go with McLaurin (we need to get used to reading he back of out CB's jerseys) and Cosmi is a very good addition to the o-line.

The entire NFCE had very solid drafts unfortunately.

Seems they have a philosophy in Washington again.... uber athletes.   What is Milne doing there?  lol  

8 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

Geez, you guys are already pencilling Grimes in for the 53 man roster? His odds of winning the Nasty Nate just keep going up.

I am guilt of that

this staff has no loyalty to jjaw. He is as good as cut. I think Grimes has enough raw ability and size to make the squad and be much cheaper than jjaw. Especially if plays ST

smith reagor quez are locks. Ward and hightower and grimes round it put for me

Apologies if already posted.  Eagles favorite draft class of Dane Brugler?  Pretty cool, especially because he didn’t consider futur draft value gained (like the 2022 1st from Dolphins and 5th from Skins) in his evaluation.

https://theathletic.com/2562306/2021/05/03/eagles-browns-lions-bears-dane-brugler-ranks-his-favorite-2021-nfl-draft-classes-from-1-to-32/

The Athletic, here was top ten for anyone who doesn’t have it

Quote

 

Eagles, Browns, Lions, Bears: Dane Brugler ranks his favorite 2021 NFL Draft classes from 1 to 32

Dane Brugler 55m ago 12  

This is my spin on grading the NFL Draft hauls for each team. Instead of handing out letter grades, I power-ranked the 32 clubs based on my favorite draft classes, from best to worst.

This was a challenging, subjective exercise because there was something I liked about every draft class. But ultimately, the results came down to two categories: quality of talent added and the value of where players were taken. Teams with more draft picks (especially in the top 100) had an obvious advantage while teams with fewer picks never had much of a chance (cough, Houston).

Future draft picks gained through draft trades (like the Giants adding a 2022 first-round pick) did not affect where I ranked each team.

1. Philadelphia Eagles

RD.	OVERALL PICK	PLAYER
1	10	DeVonta Smith, WR, Alabama
2	37	Landon Dickerson, OG/C, Alabama
3	70	Milton Williams, DT, Louisiana Tech
4	123	Zech McPhearson, CB, Texas Tech
5	150	Kennth Gainwell, RB, Memphis
6	189	Marlon Tuipulotu, DT, USC
6	191	Tarron Jackson, edge, Coastal Carolina
6	224	JaCoby Stevens, DS, LSU
7	234	Patrick Johnson, edge, Tulane

Favorite pick: Landon Dickerson, OG/C, Alabama
The Eagles had no shortage of candidates here, which is the main reason they are No. 1 on my list. But Dickerson gets my vote because of his combination of high-end talent at any of the interior line positions and his impact in the locker room. His injury history is troublesome, but well worth the risk.

Day 3 pick who could surprise: Zech McPhearson, CB, Texas Tech
This was a tough choice between McPhearson, Gainwell and Tuipulotu, but the cornerback is the pick because I thought he went widely underrated throughout the process. The Penn State transfer looks comfortable in both man and zone and shows outstanding fluidity and toughness to mirror receivers.

2. Cleveland Browns

RD.	OVERALL PICK	PLAYER
1	26	Greg Newsome, CB, Northwestern
2	52	Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB, Notre Dame
3	91	Anthony Schwartz, WR, Auburn
4	110	James Hudson, OT/G, Cincinnati
4	132	Tommy Togiai, DT, Ohio State
5	153	Tony Fields II, LB, West Virginia
5	169	Richard LeCounte III, DS, Georgia
6	211	Demetric Felton, WR, UCLA

Favorite pick: Greg Newsome II, CB, Northwestern
Falling to the mid-second round, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah could very well be the steal of the draft, but Newsome’s impact on the Browns’ secondary should be immediate and substantial. He is a route magnet due to his blend of athleticism and football intelligence and should help stabilize Cleveland’s cornerback depth chart.

Day 3 pick who could surprise: Tommy Togiai, DT, Ohio State
Togiai made the trek from Idaho to Ohio for college and the Browns are keeping him in the Buckeye state. Cleveland knew it would be tough to add interior defensive line depth in a weak defensive tackle class, but they were able to land a quality option with Togiai, a uniquely powerful bully who was the MVP of the Ohio State defense throughout the program’s playoff run in 2020.

3. Detroit Lions

RD.	OVERALL PICK	PLAYER
1	7	Penei Sewell, OT, Oregon
2	41	Levi Onwuzurike, DT, Washington
3	72	Alim McNeill, DT, NC State
3	101	Ifeatu Melifonwu, CB, Syracuse
4	112	Amon-Ra St. Brown, WR, USC
4	113	Derrick Barnes, LB, Purdue
7	257	Jermar Jefferson, RB, Oregon State

Favorite pick: Penei Sewell, OT, Oregon
A top-five ranked player on my board, Sewell was the perfect first addition for a new regime tasked with rebooting the franchise. At only 20 years old, his combination of big man balance and natural instincts are uncommon, which should allow him to start as a rookie and develop into one of the league’s top tackles.

 

Penei Sewell is all smiles in Detroit. (Associated Press)

Day 3 pick who could surprise: Amon-Ra St. Brown, WR, USC
The Lions wide receiver depth chart was wiped out after last season and it was a slight surprise they didn’t address the position with any of their four top-100 picks. But the value of St. Brown in the fourth round was an impressive find by general manager Brad Holmes, who had an impressive weekend running his first draft.

4. Chicago Bears

RD.	OVERALL PICK	PLAYER
1	11	Justin Fields, QB, Ohio State
2	39	Teven Jenkins, OT, Oklahoma State
5	151	Larry Borom, OT/G, Missouri
6	217	Khalil Herbert, RB, Virginia Tech
6	221	Dazz Newsome, WR, North Carolina
6	228	Thomas Graham, CB, Oregon
7	250	Khyiris Tonga, DT, BYU

Favorite pick: Justin Fields, QB, Ohio State
Who else? As disastrous as the Mitchell Trubisky draft selection played out, the draft gods had mercy on the Bears this time around. Fields slipped past several potential landing spots at No. 7, No. 8 and No. 9 and the Bears made an aggressive jump from No. 20 to nab the Ohio State quarterback. Time will tell if Fields pans out, but he was absolutely worth the gamble for GM Ryan Pace and coach Matt Nagy.

Day 3 pick who could surprise: Thomas Graham, CB, Oregon
The Bears had luck with a Pac-12 cornerback in last year’s draft (Jaylon Johnson) and could again this season with Graham, who several teams considered a fourth or fifth-round prospect. While he is average athletically, Graham is quick to sort and react to what he sees and competes with the confidence needed for the position.

5. Los Angeles Chargers

RD.	OVERALL PICK	PLAYER
1	13	Rashawn Slater, OT, Northwestern
2	47	Asante Samuel Jr., CB, Florida State
3	77	Josh Palmer, WR, Tennessee
3	97	Tre' McKitty, TE, Georgia
4	118	Chris Rumph II, LB, Duke
5	159	Brenden Jaimes, OT, Nebraska
6	185	Nick Niemann, LB, Iowa
6	198	Larry Rountree III, RB, Missouri
7	241	Mark Webb, CB/S, Georgia

Favorite pick: Rashawn Slater, OT, Northwestern
Call it luck or call it smart process, the Chargers could have been pressured to trade up for the quarterback last year or the left tackle this year. But they stayed put both years and landed Justin Herbert and Slater. Regardless, job well done by Tom Telesco and his staff.

Day 3 pick who could surprise: Brenden Jaimes, OT, Nebraska
I loved what the Chargers did on Day 3, especially with Rumph and Niemann. But the value of Jaimes (pronounced HYME-iss) outside the top-150 picks was outstanding. Nebraska has a vast history of producing offensive lineman, but none started more consecutive games than Jaimes, who should at-worst be a rock-solid swing tackle. With Slater and Jaimes, the Chargers remade the tackle depth chart in one draft.

6. Carolina Panthers

RD.	OVERALL PICK	PLAYER
1	8	Jaycee Horn, CB, South Carolina
2	59	Terrace Marshall, WR, LSU
3	70	Brady Christensen, OT, BYU
3	83	Tommy Tremble, TE, Notre Dame
4	126	Chuba Hubbard, RB, Oklahoma State
5	158	Daviyon Nixon, DT, Iowa
5	166	Keith Taylor, CB, Washington
6	193	Deonte Brown, OG, Alabama
6	204	Shi Smith, WR, South Carolina
6	222	Thomas Fletcher, LS, Alabama
7	232	Phil Hoskins, DT, Kentucky

Favorite pick: Jaycee Horn, CB, South Carolina
I was tipped off last week that midway through the draft process, the Panthers’ focus shifted from quarterback or tackle to cornerback with this pick. And Carolina preferred Horn over Patrick Surtain due to his toughness and compete skills.

Day 3 pick who could surprise: Deonte Brown, OG, Alabama
The Panthers cleaned up on Day 3 with Hubbard, Nixon and Taylor, who could all be immediate contributors as rookies. But the Brown selection stands out as one of my favorite from the final rounds. A top 100 prospect on my board, he is explosive and powerful and will out-play this draft spot if his weight and focus stays on track.

7. New York Jets

RD.	OVERALL PICK	PLAYER
1	2	Zach Wilson, QB, BYU
1	14	Alijah Vera-Tucker, OG, USC
2	34	Elijah Moore, WR, Ole Miss
4	107	Michael Carter, RB, North Carolina
5	146	Jamien Sherwood, DS, Auburn
5	154	Michael Carter II, CB, Duke
5	175	Jason Pinnock, CB, Pittsburgh
6	186	Hamsah Nasirildeen, DS, Florida State
6	200	Brandin Echols, CB, Kentucky
6	207	Jonathan Marshall, DT, Arkansas

Favorite pick: Alijah Vera-Tucker, OG, USC
Wilson was my QB2 (behind Trevor Lawrence) since the fall, so I thought the Jets made the right choice at No. 2, but Vera-Tucker was my favorite pick of the Jets’ class. Plugging him in at guard next to Mekhi Becton gives New York one of the best left sides of the offensive line in the NFL.

Day 3 pick who could surprise: Michael Carter, RB, North Carolina
The Jets upgraded their offense in a big way with Wilson, Vera-Tucker and Moore as their first three picks. But Carter in the fourth round should also make an immediate contribution as part of the Jets’ running back committee. With his ability as a rusher, receiver and blocker, he can stay on the field in any situation.

8. Jacksonville Jaguars

RD.	OVERALL PICK	PLAYER
1	1	Trevor Lawrence, QB, Clemson
1	25	Travis Etienne, RB, Clemson
2	33	Tyson Campbell, CB, Georgia
2	45	Walker Little, OT, Stanford
3	65	Andre Cisco, FS, Syracuse
4	106	Jay Tufele, DT, USC
4	121	Jordan Smith, edge, UAB
5	145	Luke Farrell, TE, Ohio State
6	209	Jalen Camp, WR, Georgia Tech

Favorite pick: Trevor Lawrence, QB, Clemson
The Jaguars landed the No. 1 pick in the right year. With Urban Meyer and Lawrence, Jacksonville has now become must-see TV this fall.

Day 3 pick who could surprise: Jay Tufele, DT, USC
The No. 78-ranked player on my board, Tufele was an opt out in 2020, but his 2019 film was full of impressive flashes. With his rugby background, he is quick off the ball with the physical violence, body control and insistent effort to infiltrate the backfield.

9. Miami Dolphins

RD.	OVERALL PICK	PLAYER
1	6	Jaylen Waddle, WR, Alabama
1	18	Jaelan Phillips, edge, Miami (Fla.)
2	36	Jevon Holland, FS, Oregon
2	42	Liam Eichenberg, OT, Notre Dame
3	81	Hunter Long, TE, Boston College
7	231	Larnel Coleman, OT, Umass
7	244	Gerrid Doaks, RB, Cincinnati

Favorite pick: Jaylen Waddle, WR, Alabama
With four selections in the top 42 picks, the Dolphins added several key players that should see starting action as rookies. A case could be made that Sewell should have been the first selection, but Waddle’s explosive receiving skills and his familiarity with Tua Tagovailoa should do wonders for the Miami offense.

 

Jaylen Waddle. (Gregory Shamus / Getty Images)

Day 3 pick who could surprise: Larnel Coleman, OT, Massachusetts
The Dolphins had only two Day 3 picks, but they nailed it with Coleman, who was one of my favorite sleepers in this year’s class. He probably isn’t ready to contribute in Year 1 and will require patience, but his length and movement skills make him an intriguing development prospect at tackle.

10. Atlanta Falcons

RD.	OVERALL PICK	PLAYER
1	4	Kyle Pitts, TE, Florida
2	40	Richie Grant, FS, UCF
3	68	Jalen Mayfield, OT/G, Michigan
4	108	Darren Hall, CB, San Diego State
4	114	Drew Dalman, OC, Stanford
5	148	Ta'Quon Graham, DT, Texas
5	182	Ade Ogundeji, DL, Notre Dame
5	183	Avery Williams, CB, Boise State
6	187	Frank Darby, WR, Arizona State

Favorite pick: Kyle Pitts, TE, Florida
The Falcons nailed their first two picks with my top-ranked safety and the best offensive playmaker in the draft. Pitts was such a unique playmaker at the college level and it will be fun to see his impact with an established quarterback (Matt Ryan) and creative play-caller (new coach Arthur Smith).

Day 3 pick who could surprise: Drew Dalman, OC, Stanford
Alex Mack made center a strength of the roster over his five years in Atlanta before signing with the 49ers this offseason. Atlanta drafted Matt Hennessy in the third round last year, but it wouldn’t be a surprise to see Dalman start more games at center his season due to his athleticism and finishing skills.

 

 

18 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

The one thing they didn't do is grab a QB otherwise their draft is very good.  They added more weapons to that defense, got an absolute burner in Dyami Brown to go with McLaurin (we need to get used to reading he back of out CB's jerseys) and Cosmi is a very good addition to the o-line.

The entire NFCE had very solid drafts unfortunately.

I think they grab one next year  ,Rivera already said he will build the team , then get the QB 

24 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

I am guilt of that

this staff has no loyalty to jjaw. He is as good as cut. I think Grimes has enough raw ability and size to make the squad and be much cheaper than jjaw. Especially if plays ST

smith reagor quez are locks. Ward and hightower and grimes round it put for me

Brian Johnson knows his game well coming from UF.  Will be interesting if he can unlock him.  Did Grimes just suffer from being the 4th or 5th option in the UF offense?  He doesn't have a lot of wiggle to his game but he's got the size and speed you dream of at WR.  

We have to assume that JJAW has one foot out the door.  I mean the guy has shown nothing, there's no sugarcoating it.

So let's take JJAW out of the equation.  

The Eagles have a bunch of WR between 5-11 and 6'.  Smith's size has been debated for months.  Hightower is 6-2 but he's only 190, hardly a big WR.  Fulgham is the biggest at 6-2 215.

Grimes is 6-4 220.  It might be beneficial to keep a WR that brings a whole different size/skill set then the rest of the WR group.  Not saying he's a lock, he went undrafted for a reason and has a heck of a hill to climb but just looking at what might be good about him.

The same goes for Jhamon Ausbon.  He's 6-2 220, roughly the same size as Fulgham but he plays a physical game.  He's an interesting WR.  

Smith and Reagor are locks.  Ward is 99.9% a lock but he was the previous staffs pet project, maybe the new coaches come in unimpressed with a meh slot WR.   Watkins and Fulgham are battling for WR4.

Then you have a battle for WR5.  Hightower, Grimes, Ausbon, JJAW and let's not forget Khalil Tate.  He's a dynamic athlete.  Will be interesting to see how they line these guys up and use them.

43 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

This is why it's so frustrating not having any mini camps right now.  These young WR need as many reps as they can get with this new staff.  They would have benefitted from the reps if the same coaching staff was still here. 

The thing about Fulgham is that his flashes weren't just that of a good WR.  He flashed dominance.  Go back and watch his highlights.  There are plays he make that no other WR has made for the Eagles in the last 5 years (save Alshons SB52 TD catch).  He was plucking the ball out of the air, contorting his body to make difficult catches, stiff arming guys just looking unstoppable.  

Can Nick and his coaches wake that guy up and get him to do that on a consistent basis or was that just the biggest mirage we've ever seen?

Smith, Reagor, Watkins and Fulgham are my guys at the top right now.  I would have LOVED to tap in to the deep slot WR draft class to replace Ward but so be it.  

They have the effective replacement for Ward out of this draft, in Gainwell. He'll get the touches that went to Ward, both out of the backfield and split wide.

A RB with WR skills presents match-up nightmares, compared to your typical RB who has to run simple routes and face the QB to look the pass into his hands.

I think most of us here respect the Ravens and Steelers organizations for their stability and consistent approach to the NFL Draft over multiple decades now.

Ozzie Newsome (and now Eric DeCosta) had / have a general philosophy for the NFL Draft that they have both mentioned / repeated over the years when interviewed about their general drafting philosophy during that timeframe.   Paraphrasing, it went something like "Don't try to hit Home Runs, try to consistently hit Doubles," especially when picking lower in Round 1, or the later rounds.

This is a fantastic article from 2014 that is still worth reading today...and includes quotes from Newsome, DeCosta, Daniel Jeremiah (who was a Ravens scout at one time), Gil Brandt, Russ Lande, etc.   It really helps level set expectations for how success can be defined for a typical draft...and how much luck can sometimes be involved even for the best drafting organizations...  

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-draft-results-0504-20140503-34-story.html

 

 

 

 

It's always encouraging to hear that respected folks are impressed with the draft.  But, that's not very useful in the end.   At the end of the day, it is all about the field.    Sadly, it seems that these guys won't be on the field together any time soon to test these hypotheses.  So, it will be the virtual classroom almost exclusively for the next few weeks until the mandatory OTAs come.  Hopefully these guys are all students of the game, and not just dedicated to the field/weight room.   They need to be dedicated to the film room and study as well.

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

They have the effective replacement for Ward out of this draft, in Gainwell. He'll get the touches that went to Ward, both out of the backfield and split wide.

A RB with WR skills presents match-up nightmares, compared to your typical RB who has to run simple routes and face the QB to look the pass into his hands.

Gainwell is already then 2nd best natural receiver on the team behind Smith but he's still a running back.  You aren't going to get rid of your slot WR because of a running back.  The only thing that might support that is that Siriani wants his guys to be positionless and just take advantage of what they do well.

Ward is 100% a slot WR and a slow one at that.  I actually really like Ward and what he's done but if you can upgrade, then you upgrade.  He isn't lining up outside and winning any matchups.  Is his roster spot in jeopardy because of this?  Same goes with Hightower, he seems like a 1-trick pony to me although I could be wrong.  

Who are locks and where are they lining up?

Smith

Reagor

Ward 

Watkins

Fulgham

Hightower

JJAW

Grimes

Tate

Ausbon

 

27 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Brian Johnson knows his game well coming from UF.  Will be interesting if he can unlock him.  Did Grimes just suffer from being the 4th or 5th option in the UF offense?  He doesn't have a lot of wiggle to his game but he's got the size and speed you dream of at WR.  

We have to assume that JJAW has one foot out the door.  I mean the guy has shown nothing, there's no sugarcoating it.

So let's take JJAW out of the equation.  

The Eagles have a bunch of WR between 5-11 and 6'.  Smith's size has been debated for months.  Hightower is 6-2 but he's only 190, hardly a big WR.  Fulgham is the biggest at 6-2 215.

Grimes is 6-4 220.  It might be beneficial to keep a WR that brings a whole different size/skill set then the rest of the WR group.  Not saying he's a lock, he went undrafted for a reason and has a heck of a hill to climb but just looking at what might be good about him.

The same goes for Jhamon Ausbon.  He's 6-2 220, roughly the same size as Fulgham but he plays a physical game.  He's an interesting WR.  

Smith and Reagor are locks.  Ward is 99.9% a lock but he was the previous staffs pet project, maybe the new coaches come in unimpressed with a meh slot WR.   Watkins and Fulgham are battling for WR4.

Then you have a battle for WR5.  Hightower, Grimes, Ausbon, JJAW and let's not forget Khalil Tate.  He's a dynamic athlete.  Will be interesting to see how they line these guys up and use them.

I wouldn't take JJAW out of the equation, I would take Ausbon out, at best he's PS material. Same with Grimes, who ran 4.50 at his pro day, and needs a lot of work. Tate will need a year on the PS.

Butler was an attempted H-back conversion last year, will they keep him there or move him back to WR.

JJAW will go in with a clean slate with a new coaching staff that likes big WRs, if he can't make it with this group, his career is over.

Tyree Jackson will get a long look as a H-back, as a converted QB he's a better athlete than Tate and huge to boot - 6'7 249, he actually tested out close to Grimes:

Grimes 6'4 220   [4.49   1.57   4.28   6.98   35    9’10]

Jackson  6'7 249  [4.59   1.59     4.28   7.09   34    10’0]

Butler  6'5 220  [4.48   1.59    4.16   7.09   36    10’8]

JJAW  6'2  225  [4.50   1.58   4.41   7.23   34    9’11]

 

 

 

 

http://civilwarcavalry.com/?page_id=1186

8 hours ago, BigEFly said:

 I am one week from shot two and three weeks from getting my wanderlust on.  I am trying to talk the wife into heading to Texas to see her dad and my sister and a cousin and let her get her island time on Galveston.  Then, if she is willing, on to NM through the Davis mountains area, to Carlsbad, Las Cruces up towards Albuquerque, Taos and Santa Fe through the Sangre de Christo mountains, the San Juan’s, Mesa Verde, Million Dollar highway, Durango to Silverton on the narrow gauge, over to Vail, up to Estes Park for the columbine meadow, the Black Canyon etc. It’s been a while since I was in NM and CO.  I need some religion, which is sitting above the tree line watching the afternoon thunderstorms rolling in and timing it to get to the trees in time.   Her brother lives in Wichita so back our way through there and the iron hills.  (If I can talk her into it, north and over the border for a trip around the lakes.)  I told her that after over a year of no travel, I will come home when I burn out the wanderlust a bit.  

 

I took my wife and two nieces on that narrow gauge train. My wife got a headache because of the altitude but it cleared up. Beautiful ride and Silverton is a great spot. There is a metal artist/blacksmith  up there  whose name I can't recall - his shop is Quiet Bear Art. Got a couple of pieces from him. Great stuff. The docent on the ride up was a reenactor who portrayed the wife of David F. Day, a newspaperman in Durango in the 19th century. I have something of a crush on Day. He enlisted in the Union Army at age 14, was a member of the "forlorn hope" at Vicksburg, was captured by the Confederates three times and had a distinguished career then and thereafter. Never got promoted above private because he had an acid tongue and couldn't hold it. After the war he became a newspaperman, and his paper The Solid Muldoon was famous for its acidity. He was sued more than 100 times for libel though I never found evidence that he lost any such case. His wife was apparently quite distinguished in her own right and what was odd to me was that the docent, who was delighted that I knew who David Day was, did not know of his Medal of Honor for the "forlorn hope."

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

I wouldn't take JJAW out of the equation, I would take Ausbon out, at best he's PS material. Same with Grimes, who ran 4.50 at his pro day, and needs a lot of work. Tate will need a year on the PS.

Butler was an attempted H-back conversion last year, will they keep him there or move him back to WR.

JJAW will go in with a clean slate with a new coaching staff that likes big WRs, if he can't make it with this group, his career is over.

Tyree Jackson will get a long look as a H-back, as a converted QB he's a better athlete than Tate and huge to boot - 6'7 249, he actually tested out close to Grimes:

Grimes 6'4 220   [4.49   1.57   4.28   6.98   35    9’10]

 

 

 

 

Jackson  6'7 249 

[4.59   1.59     4.28   7.09   34    10’0]

Butler  6'5 220  [4.48   1.59    4.16   7.09   36    10’8]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At this point, Jackson and Butler need to stay at tight end.  Behind Goedert (assuming Ertz is traded/released) there is nothing.  I'd imagine they bring back Dick Rod or an established veteran to be TE2 and keep Jackson/Butler as developmental TE3 with the hopes they are TE2 next yea

JJAW for sure has a clean slate but as big as he is, he doesn't play it.  He plays soft.  He had one nice block that I can recall.  

The UDFA will most likely be PS and that's fine.  

I'm still just trying to figure out the top 5 and how that all shakes out.

14 minutes ago, Rhinoddd50 said:

I think most of us here respect the Ravens and Steelers organizations for their stability and consistent approach to the NFL Draft over multiple decades now.

Ozzie Newsome (and now Eric DeCosta) had / have a general philosophy for the NFL Draft that they have both mentioned / repeated over the years when interviewed about their general drafting philosophy during that timeframe.   Paraphrasing, it went something like "Don't try to hit Home Runs, try to consistently hit Doubles," especially when picking lower in Round 1, or the later rounds.

This is a fantastic article from 2014 that is still worth reading today...and includes quotes from Newsome, DeCosta, Daniel Jeremiah (who was a Ravens scout at one time), Gil Brandt, Russ Lande, etc.   It really helps level set expectations for how success can be defined for a typical draft...and how much luck can sometimes be involved even for the best drafting organizations...  

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-draft-results-0504-20140503-34-story.html

Two points to garner from that article, the high failure rate for even the best organizations, and how success is predicated on draft position.

Howie ran a better draft, but it also helped to start with #6, #37, #70, #84, which allowed him to move around, target three good prospects, pick up a 2022 1st and an extra 2021 6th (which in part, led to trading for a 2022 5th with lower picks made superfluous).

Next year Howie will have the ammunition to do anything, trade up if needed, or trade down from one of the 1st rd pick and add extra mid-round picks in what could be an historically deep draft (with all the returnees).

6 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

At this point, Jackson and Butler need to stay at tight end.  Behind Goedert (assuming Ertz is traded/released) there is nothing.  I'd imagine they bring back Dick Rod or an established veteran to be TE2 and keep Jackson/Butler as developmental TE3 with the hopes they are TE2 next yea

JJAW for sure has a clean slate but as big as he is, he doesn't play it.  He plays soft.  He had one nice block that I can recall.  

The UDFA will most likely be PS and that's fine.  

I'm still just trying to figure out the top 5 and how that all shakes out.

Jackson and Butler won't be TEs, they'll be H-back/WR hybrids, and JJAW and Grimes may well be groomed for a similar role.

Think they picked up Stroll for more of a conventional TE, though he's a bit undersized for that role, they may also be grooming Croom for that role, though it won't surprise me if they add a veteran or take someone off waivers in August.

One aspect that is unknown right now is how Sirianni and his staff view the players they inherited, they did cut Barnett early.

Let's have some fun in here today...

Favorite draft pick?

Best value?

Favoriete UDF?

 

Mine are:

DeVonta Smith

Kenny Gainwell

Trevon Grimes

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Jackson and Butler won't be TEs, they'll be H-back/WR hybrids, and JJAW and Grimes may well be groomed for a similar role.

Think they picked up Stroll for more of a conventional TE, though he's a bit undersized for that role, they may also be grooming Croom for that role, though it won't surprise me if they add a veteran or take someone off waivers in August.

One aspect that is unknown right now is how Sirianni and his staff view the players they inherited, they did cut Barnett early.

You mean Deonte Burnett the WR?  If so, he was cut with an injury settlement. 

I'm not sure how you don't see Butler and Jackson as TE. That's what they were last year and that's what they're being trained to do.  Think Logan Thomas.