14 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

 

I dont understand the Eagles fan base. They hate howie, they think he stinks, he drafts Smith and they think he's back to being a top 5 GM. 

 

This could be Howie's best draft ever.  The ONLY slightly questionable pick was McPherson in the 2nd round, since there were 3-4 other DB's still available that some fans may have liked more.  Even the Dickerson pick was outstanding value in the 2nd round, EVEN with his injury history.  If it wasn't for his injury history, he's a top 20 pick in the 1st round. 

9 minutes ago, Rhinoddd50 said:

I think most of us here respect the Ravens and Steelers organizations for their stability and consistent approach to the NFL Draft over multiple decades now.

Ozzie Newsome (and now Eric DeCosta) had / have a general philosophy for the NFL Draft that they have both mentioned / repeated over the years when interviewed about their general drafting philosophy during that timeframe.   Paraphrasing, it went something like "Don't try to hit Home Runs, try to consistently hit Doubles," especially when picking lower in Round 1, or the later rounds.

This is a fantastic article from 2014 that is still worth reading today...and includes quotes from Newsome, DeCosta, Daniel Jeremiah (who was a Ravens scout at one time), Gil Brandt, Russ Lande, etc.   It really helps level set expectations for how success can be defined for a typical draft...and how much luck can sometimes be involved even for the best drafting organizations...  

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-draft-results-0504-20140503-34-story.html

Hey rhino!

 

Good to see you.   Agreed.  That was the philosophy that Douglas was supposed to bring.  The bigger thing that the Ravens have, and the Steelers have, is that you can just see certain players fit their schemes and they identify and draft those players. 

9 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Jackson and Butler won't be TEs, they'll be H-back/WR hybrids, and JJAW and Grimes may well be groomed for a similar role.

Think they picked up Stroll for more of a conventional TE, though he's a bit undersized for that role, they may also be grooming Croom for that role, though it won't surprise me if they add a veteran or take someone off waivers in August.

One aspect that is unknown right now is how Sirianni and his staff view the players they inherited, they did cut Barnett early.

Sirianni is getting twice the amount of talent the Eagles finished with last season between guys coming back from injury, draft picks and FA acquisitions.  I would think he would be thrilled atm.  The only downside is that his win quota just went up.  

10 minutes ago, justrelax said:

http://civilwarcavalry.com/?page_id=1186

I took my wife and two nieces on that narrow gauge train. My wife got a headache because of the altitude but it cleared up. Beautiful ride and Silverton is a great spot. There is a metal artist/blacksmith  up there  whose name I can't recall - his shop is Quiet Bear Art. Got a couple of pieces from him. Great stuff. The docent on the ride up was a reenactor who portrayed the wife of David F. Day, a newspaperman in Durango in the 19th century. I have something of a crush on Day. He enlisted in the Union Army at age 14, was a member of the "forlorn hope" at Vicksburg, was captured by the Confederates three times and had a distinguished career then and thereafter. Never got promoted above private because he had an acid tongue and couldn't hold it. After the war he became a newspaperman, and his paper The Solid Muldoon was famous for its acidity. He was sued more than 100 times for libel though I never found evidence that he lost any such case. His wife was apparently quite distinguished in her own right and what was odd to me was that the docent, who was delighted that I knew who David Day was, did not know of his Medal of Honor for the "forlorn hope."

As a scout, we used to grab the train and get off about halfway between Durango and Silverton.  We would hike up into the mountains and backpack around then come down again, flag down the train with a red bandana and ride it back to where we were parked. Both my sister’s Girl Scouts and my scout group did that a few times.  My kids like to hike and I keep suggesting this as a trip. One of my favorites.

Understand your wife’s headache.  When I backpacked into the mountains in my youth, I would usually get a headache the first pass because my sea level body wasn’t used to the air, or really the lack of it.  But that fades quickly and being above tree line is worth it.

4 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Let's have some fun in here today...

Favorite draft pick?

Best value?

Favoriete UDF?

 

Mine are:

DeVonta Smith

Kenny Gainwell

Trevon Grimes

Dickerson - The health concerns are real but this guy is an absolute stud.  Stoutland is one of the only coaches on the Eagles in a long time that I trust inherently and he loves him.  Plus he's just such an easy guy to cheer for.

Gainwell - Wanted to pick someone different than you because I think you could make an argument for a few people, but yeah, it's Gainwell for me too.  Great talent with pass catching ability and very little tread on the tires.  Easy to see him filling the Hines role in our offense for Sirianni.

Newman - I want to say Stoll just for the sweet sweet mullet, but in the end I like what I see in Newman.  Raw and needs a lot of work but has a lot of physical and arm talent.  Backup QBs aren't cheap as we've learned, and having a home developed one could save the Eagles a hefty chunk of change over the next few years,

7 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Let's have some fun in here today...

Favorite draft pick?

Best value?

Favoriete UDF?

 

Mine are:

DeVonta Smith

Kenny Gainwell

Trevon Grimes

Favorite- Milton Williams.  At first I was very MEH considering who else was on the board.  Still think LB/S should have been addressed instead but Williams is an ELITE athlete.  Pre-draft I harped on how this team lacks elite athletes.  He brings that.  Excited to see what he can develop in to.

Value- Gainwell, going to be hard for anyone to argue that one

UDFA- Newman.  Skillset wise, he's better than Hurts.  Not that he would ever take over but he could be a very solid QB2 once Flacco is gone.  He has many of the same traits that Brian Johnson did at Utah so I can see Johnson really wanting to mold him.

To my previous post, and using a Baltimore Ravens term, I think the 2021 Eagles Draft is probably a solid Double, with Home Run potential if Donta Smith and Landon Dickerson work out.   

Just some quick thoughts...

- I do have some concerns with Donta Smith's size and Dickerson's injury history, but both of them clearly have multiple Pro Bowl level of play potential.   And these guys were clearly two of the highest character / leader types in the draft.    Talent obviously matters, but so does mental makeup and personality.

- This young Coaching staff may end up wetting the bed, but I do like the fact that they brought some fresh ideas, schemes, and some badly needed enthusiasm into the organization.   

- I'm not sure Pederson and his staff deserved to be fired, but I'm not sure they deserved to stay either.   The lack of player development across multiple levels on Offense and Defense was extremely frustrating to watch.   While I also respected Jim Schwartz, I think he and his staff shared in plenty of the blame here as well.

- At least for the 2021 Draft, I do believe that the Front Office, the Scouting Department, and the Coaching Staff were all on the same page and did stick to a general BPA philosophy.   They knew they needed Secondary help better than anyone, so I believe them when they said that they wanted to stay true to their board and take the best players available.

- I think DL was a "sneaky" need for this Eagles team.   They may not have found star replacements for Cox and Graham, but they certainly restocked the DL with potential Timmy Jernigan, Beau Allen, Vinny Curry, etc types that could add some quality depth and improve the rotation, especially now that Cox and Graham are getting close to aging out.   A deeper rotation could mean a few less snaps for Cox and Graham each game, and possibly help them be more effective.

- As mentioned by others, I am intrigued by Jonathan Gannon and how he plans to use some of these "chess" pieces on Defense.   

- Speaking of Gannon, I sure hope he and his staff demonstrate they know how to develop and best utilize young players.   I know many of us liked and were interested in JOK (Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah), but to me that would have been basically giving up on Davion Taylor, who has the same or better athleticism but is obviously raw.   The fact that Davion Taylor was picked too early in the 2020 draft is now water under the bridge.    I think the Eagles made the prudent and pragmatic choice (for 2021 at least) to try and salvage something from Davion Taylor / JaCoby Stevens and see if they could use those resources (3rd Round and 6th Round) to replace what was lost when (later career) Malcolm Jenkins and then Jalen Mills left (in the Box S/LB tweener role).

- Speaking of Davion Taylor (and LJ Forte, etc, etc) it seemed like Schwartz and his staff had their favorites and nothing was going to change their stubbornly sticking to them no matter what.   The fact that Davion Taylor wasn't even getting Special Teams reps on a 4 win team last year was inexcusable.  Same with Alshon Jeffery getting snaps over Travis Fulgham at the end of a lost season, etc.   There seemed to be a serious disconnect between the Coaching Staff and the players drafted and or signed / traded for by the Front Office / Scouts.   For that reason alone I think an argument could be made that the entire previous Coaching Staff needed to go.

- This is not a defense of Howie and the Front Office, and their relatively poor performance over the last 3+ years when it comes to the Draft and the Salary Cap. 

Impacts a team everywhere 

 

Favorite pick by a bunch Milton Williams 

undrafted addition , Newman 

19 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

You mean Deonte Burnett the WR?  If so, he was cut with an injury settlement. 

I'm not sure how you don't see Butler and Jackson as TE. That's what they were last year and that's what they're being trained to do.  Think Logan Thomas.

I distinguish between TEs and H-backs.

True TEs can block effectively in line, that's the difference between Goedert and Ertz, then you have Rodgers, a WR in a TE body.

I don't expect converted WRs to become good blockers for years, if ever, if they were good blocking WRs, they should be able to handle LBs in space, that's fine for a H-back. Converted QBs are even worse, since QBs rarely block, for them it's a new world.

I think blocking will be a higher priority for most WRs, Smith excepted for obvious reasons, because you still run 40+% of the time, and a WR who doesn't block well is a waste of a player on those plays. And even more important for H-backs.

The best true TEs are miniature OL who can run and catch, imagine if Lane remained at say 270 lbs! It would be nice to have one that could run block at a high level, run a 4.60 40, run receiver routes and had good hands - but that unicorn would be a top 10 pick. Witten was close, but lacked the speed to be a legitimate deep threat down the seam.

Let's have some fun in here today...

Favorite draft pick?

Best value?

Favoriete UDF?

 

Mine are:

DeVonta Smith

Kenny Gainwell

Newman. (generally underwhelmed by UDFA signings though)

6 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Favorite pick by a bunch Milton Williams 

undrafted addition , Newman 

Have to agree on Williams - scary how close his style of play and measurables are to Atkins and Donald, we'll see if he can fill that role, but they show that undersized DL with T-rex arms can dominate at the "3" if they have great explosion and play with leverage. More likely, he'll be a better version of Curry, solid run stopping LDE who provides a good pass rush on 3rd downs when he's moved inside.

Newman by default, Grimes wouldn't even be a priority FA most years, big WRs who run 4.50 40 are a dime a dozen UDFA most years.

34 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Jackson and Butler won't be TEs, they'll be H-back/WR hybrids, and JJAW and Grimes may well be groomed for a similar role.

Think they picked up Stroll for more of a conventional TE, though he's a bit undersized for that role, they may also be grooming Croom for that role, though it won't surprise me if they add a veteran or take someone off waivers in August.

One aspect that is unknown right now is how Sirianni and his staff view the players they inherited, they did cut Barnett early.

Croom is a three year player at this point. He is what he is.  Not sure any grooming going on at 27.   JAG.  Caleb Wilson is more of an Hback type to me and also got five games last year.  I thought he had the potential to develop when he came out of UCLA but he is a JAG too.  I disagree on Jackson as an Hback.  249 and 6’ 7” suggests a player who can play inline.  Probably the player with the most potential for grooming but he has to catch.  None of Butler, Croom, Wilson and JJAW are particularly great at catching. 

Burnett was cut with some sort of injury. 

39 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Hey rhino!

Good to see you.   Agreed.  That was the philosophy that Douglas was supposed to bring.  The bigger thing that the Ravens have, and the Steelers have, is that you can just see certain players fit their schemes and they identify and draft those players. 

Speaking of Joe Douglas, I am watching closely to see if what he is doing pans out with the Jets.   

Douglas record here in Philly was not inspiring...but he goes to the Jets and I like most of his individual moves.   Why?    Is it simply a function of Douglas having higher draft picks to work with for the Jets?   Or was Douglas' thoroughly mediocre record in the Draft with the Eagles more evidence of the reported dysfunction between the Front Office and the Scouting Staff?    Were Howie's flaws / failures as a GM holding Joe Douglas back?

Too early to say just yet, but something I am curious about.

Although, I still have a hard time getting Joe Douglas' positive remarks about Donnell Pumphrey out of my head. 

1 minute ago, Rhinoddd50 said:

Douglas record here in Philly was not inspiring...

But do we know what impact Douglas had? Which players he picked or had major input in to?

Favorite pick: Smith. Didn’t like the trade up but I love the player. 

Best value: Williams. I love drafting athletic freaks on the defensive line. If his arms were longer he might have been a first rounder. Imagine stunts between him and Sweat. That will be fun. In truth the pick should be Gainwell because he seemed to go a round or 2 later than expected.

UDFA. Stoll. I’m a Nebraska grad, and he’s been a solid player and fine blocker. I fully expect him to push for a spot on the 53 as our TE3. 

6 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But do we know what impact Douglas had? Which players he picked or had major input in to?

No we do not...at least not clearly.   

Douglas does have to take at least some of the blame for being part of an Eagles FO / Scouting Department that delivered some very poor drafts, and some obviously poor choices (even at the time the picks were made).   He can't have the role of basically #3 in the organization (behind Lurie and Howie) but then blame everyone else around him for failure.

But Douglas has a chance to wash some of that stink off of him with the Jets.   So time will tell.

If Douglas turns the Jets around and into a good team and solid organization, then it will provide him some personal validation (in my opinion at least).

39 minutes ago, Rhinoddd50 said:

Speaking of Joe Douglas, I am watching closely to see if what he is doing pans out with the Jets.   

My read on the Jets, and Jags, is this.

They spent 2 years clearly cap space and acquiring picks. They've had multiple 1sts + high picks (top 3) to do whatever they wanted. It's significantly easier picking players when you have more draft ammo than every other team. They also plugged in holes in free agency. That's not to say I disliked their drafts, but it's easier to take Etienne in RD1 or trade-up for Vera-Tucker when you have picks that no one else does.

3 minutes ago, Rhinoddd50 said:

No we do not...at least not clearly.   

Douglas does have to take at least some of the blame for being part of an Eagles FO / Scouting Department that delivered some very poor drafts, and some obviously poor choices (even at the time the picks were made).   He can't have the role of basically #3 in the organization (behind Lurie and Howie) but then blame everyone else around him for failure.

But Douglas has a chance to wash some of that stink off of him with the Jets.   So time will tell.

If Douglas turns the Jets around and into a good team and solid organization, then it will provide him some personal validation (in my opinion at least).

Pretty much where I am. Everyone needs to share in the blame. 

17 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

I've been seeing a lot of people saying Denver had the best draft

Except for the fact that they don't have a QB it was.  

50 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Let's have some fun in here today...

Favorite draft pick?

Best value?

Favoriete UDF?

 

Mine are:

DeVonta Smith

Kenny Gainwell

Trevon Grimes

Favorite: McPhearson.  Can play man and zone well.  Fluid moves.  A little raw but smart.  Liked him more than many of the CBs taken before him.  Cannot wait for the All 22 that Matt Akire is going to use to evaluate him.

Best value:  IF he is healthy and can stay that way, no doubt it is Dickerson.  Medical caused him to slip but he is a beast.  

UDFA (so far):  Pretty unimpressive group.  I am thinking it’s Newman.  He’s not much more than a potential back up but the fact they grabbed a player with similar abilities to Hurts suggests they like Hurts more than we think. 

I want to love this draft, but I just have an uneasy feeling about day 2. Shooting for upside with the Williams pick seems especially risky given the gamble they took on Dickerson with pick 37.

44 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Impacts a team everywhere 

 

Well it was the first time in the last 15 years anyone has had a reason to buy a Bucs jersey.  

I think the Panthers had one of the top drafts of the weekend.  They really loaded up across the board. 

7 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

I want to love this draft, but I just have an uneasy feeling about day 2. Shooting for upside with the Williams pick seems especially risky given the gamble they took on Dickerson with pick 37.

Williams has a high floor, at worst you have a bigger, more athletic Vinnie Curry. Who didn't have a bad career.