40 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Man, I’d have sat tight at 12 and let Smith go to NY. 

You're assuming that Dallas wouldn't had taken the Bears' offer had we sat at twelve.  We know they were called and only took ours to ensure they would be able to get Parsons.

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Dude, we only have 22 million in cap space next year, and if all the draft picks make the team, I believe it will be less than 15 million with the rookie contracts.  On March 10th we had 73 million in 2022 cap room, but due to Howie's roster mismanagement and bad contracts, he had to sacrifice 2022 and 2023 cap space trying to clean up his mess.

We have plenty of space in 2023, it's not like you can sign more than 3-4 FAs in one offseason who are any good (there are 31 other teams bidding out there) and 1-2 will cost big money, the others are more a matter of identifying value. The next two years are about rebuilding, you don't want to sign FAs now and waste their best seasons before you're competitive.

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

We have plenty of space in 2023, it's not like you can sign more than 3-4 FAs in one offseason who are any good (there are 31 other teams bidding out there) and 1-2 will cost big money, the others are more a matter of identifying value. The next two years are about rebuilding, you don't want to sign FAs now and waste their best seasons before you're competitive.

We are 28th in cap space in 2023.  That means 27 other teams have more space and can outbid us for free agents.  We should not be rebuilding, we should be retooling, but Howie being in the bottom third of the league in drafting, and only having 2 of 16 players still on your roster from back to back draft classes turned it into a rebuild.

We are not rebuilding from trying to sustain a team who won a Super Bowl, we are rebuilding because the draft success has been very poor.

16 minutes ago, downundermike said:

What I am saying, is he is not good at drafting, UNKNOWN

not good at free agent acquisition, FALSE

and just happened to hit one year and it worked out. Deserves major credit. He did it, and most GMs never do. Absolutely ridiculous to try to minimize that accomplishment as just a one year fluke.

This narrative that afan is trying to create that it was not sustainable is utter BS. False. Success in the NFL has always been cyclical. Proven fact. The only question is how long you stay up and how long you stay down. With Howie, we have never been down long. Deserves major credit for that. Many teams are down for decades through failures of numerous GMs.

If Howie had not failed multiple drafts in a row, while using draft resources in bad trades trying to make up for bad drafting, while handing out bad contracts ruining our 2021 and 2022 cap situations, we would not be rebuilding right now, we would be retooling.

 

Seems like the kid has a good head on his shoulders

16 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Dude, we only have 22 million in cap space next year, and if all the draft picks make the team, I believe it will be less than 15 million with the rookie contracts.  On March 10th we had 73 million in 2022 cap room, but due to Howie's roster mismanagement and bad contracts, he had to sacrifice 2022 and 2023 cap space trying to clean up his mess.

22 million right now. Likely higher by the time it comes around.... And, it will continue to improve each year. Until we are really good and have a lot of expensive vets. Then we will have to make some tough business decisions again. They cycle of the NFL....

2 hours ago, downundermike said:

My first one it was a touch sore, but I slept on it with no issues.  Tetanus shot was far worse for me in regards to soreness.

That was how it worked for my wife.  The whole upper part of my arm hurt and forearm was weak for a couple of days.  I got this shot at 8 this morning and I am feeling tired.  It is just sore near the injection site.

Holy cow, afan has recruited hazletoneagle into the Howie apologist club.

8 minutes ago, downundermike said:

We are 28th in cap space in 2023.  That means 27 other teams have more space and can outbid us for free agents.  We should not be rebuilding, we should be retooling, but Howie being in the bottom third of the league in drafting, and only having 2 of 16 players still on your roster from back to back draft classes turned it into a rebuild.

We are not rebuilding from trying to sustain a team who won a Super Bowl, we are rebuilding because the draft success has been very poor.

lol at looking at those rankings. A TON will change by then. Teams will sign or extend players on mega deals and the list will be drastically different.

We will sign, or for players, or trade players away. We may end up higher or lower on that list. 

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Holy cow, afan has recruited hazletoneagle into the Howie apologist club.

I actually have said most of what afan has said even before afan was here saying it. I havent been quite as persistent about it. But myself and manu, and IP have gone back and forth in this circular argument numerous times. 

afan is right.

12 minutes ago, downundermike said:

We are 28th in cap space in 2023.  That means 27 other teams have more space and can outbid us for free agents.  We should not be rebuilding, we should be retooling, but Howie being in the bottom third of the league in drafting, and only having 2 of 16 players still on your roster from back to back draft classes turned it into a rebuild.

We are not rebuilding from trying to sustain a team who won a Super Bowl, we are rebuilding because the draft success has been very poor.

We shouldn't be retooling, where are the core players in their mid-20s you can retool around?

2012-13 was the start of a rebuild, then Chip happened. 2016 was the reload.

Now we're doing a proper rebuild. If done right, it should be complete by 2023.

Of course, we could hire Licht away from TB, he should have it done by 2026. 😂

1 hour ago, RLC said:

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. If Dallas doesn't accept our offer, they might take the Bears' offer and then the Giants take Smith. We'd then be stuck at 12 with Slater/Paye.

It easily could have been worse.

The Cowboys turned down the deal because they wanted Parsons and didn’t think they could move down that far. 

10 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

22 million right now. Likely higher by the time it comes around....

Not sure how you figure that.  We have 22.395 million in cap space right now.  After the rookies sign their contracts, adding their contracts to the 2022 number, we have 9.316 million in 2022 cap room.  There is only one contract that the Eagles have that they can cut a player and have more than 5 million in cap savings, Fletcher Cox.  Because of Howie having to restructure so many deals, he kicked the can down the road and this problem is not going away.  Here are the top contracts, the savings are not worth the 10+ million dead cap hits.

 

I believe Howie has openly admitted to trying to keep the window open with some of those players.

I also clearly remember him stating in an interview about how people expected a "Rebuild" to take x amount of years, and that he did it in 2. That is also him openly saying "Im in a new mode now, rebuilding mode".

Ive said it many times before, this is when Howie is at his best. He hasnt forgotten how to be a great GM. Its just the part of the cycle we were in. Now, hes going back in to beast mode.

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

Man, I’d have sat tight at 12 and let Smith go to NY. 

I don’t hate the trade up. Cause i really like smith.  However I would’ve let it play out. i think in a much better draft class next year and having 4 firsts rounders and in a rebuild that sounds really good. Add on at 20 i have no qualms about taking someone like newsome II. I don’t blame them for moving up to get smith but the alternative of grabbing the haul the giants got to move back is very intriguing for a team in a rebuild and giant question mark at QB 

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I actually have said most of what afan has said even before afan was here saying it. I havent been quite as persistent about it. But myself and manu, and IP have gone back and forth in this circular argument numerous times. 

afan is right.

Not quite, but Howie needs a chance to redeem himself. After listening to that interview some of the stuff he said makes sense as to why he decided to do what he did. Hurts in the 2nd still makes no sense, as well as a lot of the draft moves he makes.

But I'm resolved to see what goes on at this point.

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

We shouldn't be retooling, where are the core players in their mid-20s you can retool around?

 

We don't have any, because Howie sucks at drafting and only 2 of the 16 players drafted in 2016 and 2017 are still on the roster.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Not sure how you figure that.  We have 22.395 million in cap space right now.  After the rookies sign their contracts, adding their contracts to the 2022 number, we have 9.316 million in 2022 cap room.  There is only one contract that the Eagles have that they can cut a player and have more than 5 million in cap savings, Fletcher Cox.  Because of Howie having to restructure so many deals, he kicked the can down the road and this problem is not going away.  Here are the top contracts, the savings are not worth the 10+ million dead cap hits.

 

There will be more restructures, more extensions, more trades, and the cap will likely go up. Its gonna change. Especially the list 2 years from now that you talked about. That one is almost pointless to even think about at this point for us fans.

27 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

You're assuming that Dallas wouldn't had taken the Bears' offer had we sat at twelve.  We know they were called and only took ours to ensure they would be able to get Parsons.

Passing on an overwhelming offer to take ours says all we need to know. Hell, we could have turned it into a three-team trade. 

3 minutes ago, greend said:

Not quite, but Howie needs a chance to redeem himself. After listening to that interview some of the stuff he said makes sense as to why he decided to do what he did. Hurts in the 2nd still makes no sense, as well as a lot of the draft moves he makes.

But I'm resolved to see what goes on at this point.

right, but me and afan have had the perspective to know that months and months before that interview you just listened to from yesterday. afan was right. 

All I needed to know was that Howie shifted back in to rebuild mode. And we had every reason to believe he would be at this point. We should also know not to doubt that guy when he is in rebuild mode. There is no one better in the entire league at that part of they GM cycle.

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

right, but me and afan have had the perspective to know that months and months before that interview you just listened to from yesterday. afan was right. 

All I needed to know was that Howie shifted back in to rebuild mode. And we had every reason to believe he would be at this point. We should also know not to doubt that guy when he is in rebuild mode. There is no one better in the entire league at that part of they GM cycle.

We'll find out. Unfortunately there still are wayyyyy better guys when it comes to drafting players

From the 2014 draft through the 2017 draft, how many of those draft pics are currently still on the Eagles?  The answer is 2.  Barnett from '17 and Seumalo in '18.  None from 2014 or 2015.  So 2 picks currently on the team from a 4 year span.  Howie is not good at drafting.

Im 100% fine with how the draft played out and I feel like people are overanalyzing using hindsight.

We got our guy, we could have what, 3 first rounders next year if everything falls our way?  Thats pretty darn good

People are freaking obsessed with "value" and picks and its annoying to me.  Some of you would have the Eagles trading back so much its like you want to corner the market and have 25 first round picks in the 2037 Draft.

We had a good draft, get over it

12 minutes ago, greend said:

We'll find out. Unfortunately there still are wayyyyy better guys when it comes to drafting players

yeah there are. It is good that we have now 2 drafts without chip and without douglas where we can finally really judge Howie's draft prowess without any confounding variables. We know these were Howie's drafts through and through. Not Chips drafts, and not Howie picking off of a horrible Joe Douglas board and being told when he can or cant move up because he was bound by someone else's valuations. Now these last two were unquestionably his.

This year's draft looks solid but we have no idea about it yet.

Last years draft class will begin to reveal a lot this year. Its on shaky ground after last year, but we need to see if anyone takes a big step forward this year. If not, Howie is going to be in trouble. If they take a big step, then it will look like their early struggles were more due to coaching.

However, there is also a chance that about 4 guys from that class become major contributors or even starters. Reagor- starting WR who needs to take a step forward in his starting role. Quez- looks like he has a shot to break in to the WR rotation this year, showed promise in limited role. Driscoll looked to have utility as backup along all 5 OL positions. Potential starter even. K'Von Wallace is likely to start the year at S for us right now due to injury. Needs to take massive step forward but the opportunity is now there.

If he has these 4 players perform, its a great draft. We will see if any of them actually step up.

 

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

yeah there are. It is good that we have now 2 drafts without chip and without douglas where we can finally really judge Howie's draft prowess without any confounding variables. We know these were Howie's drafts through and through. Not Chips drafts, and not Howie picking off of a horrible Joe Douglas board and being told when he can or cant move up because he was bound by someone else's valuations. Now these last two were unquestionably his.

This year's draft looks solid but we have no idea about it yet.

Last years draft class will begin to reveal a lot this year. Its on shaky ground after last year, but we need to see if anyone takes a big step forward this year. If not, Howie is going to be in trouble.

However, there is also a chance that about 4 guys from that class become major contributors or even starters. Reagor- starting WR who needs to take a step forward. Quez- looks like he has a shot to break in to the WR rotation this year, showed promise in limited role. Driscoll looked to have utility as backup along all 5 OL positions. Potential starter even. K'Von Wallace is likely to start the year at S for us right now due to injury. Needs to take massive step forward but the opportunity is now there.

If he has these 4 players perform, its a great draft. We will see if any of them actually step up.

 

You forgot Hurts . If he doesn't produce even if the others do that's not a good look for Howie.