EMB Blog: 2021 Offseason

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

21 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

Trading to 10 then flipping the pick for more capital talk is straight non-sense.  It's draft day insider trading...that's how you get blacklisted lol.

i don’t think you necessarily had to get to 10 to do that deal. The assumption Dallas just takes the bears offer is as much of an assumption as they don’t and select parsons at 10. Imo i don’t think Dallas wanted to move all the way back to 20 even if they got a first next year. They likely had Chicago’s offer as I’m guessing a lot of teams from 5-12 did which was reported they called teams in that range. They choose the eagles lesser future compensation offer to only move two spots back. Imo they wanted parsons and didn’t want to fall out of the range where he went. They weren’t getting him at 20. So there’s a chance if you didn’t move up Dallas, they likely would select parsons, giants go smith at 11 (which Albert breer has detailed how much they wanted and going to take him there) and the bears are offering you the deal similar to what they offered the giants. 

That said i don’t have a problem with what the eagles did. However I’m also not blind and will say that package the giants got was very valuable. If they need to move on from jones next year now they have likely their first (likely high if moving on from jones) and Chicago (potentially good value as well as Nagy is on the hot seat and could implode). I’m happy with smith but I’d also been happy to get Greg newsome II at 20, keep 84 and have 4 firsts next year as we are rebuilding for 2023 and there’s a plethora of holes, guys likely gone or decline by then

[ManuManu]

13 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

Trading to 10 then flipping the pick for more capital talk is straight non-sense.  It's draft day insider trading...that's how you get blacklisted lol.

Did Miami get blacklisted for trading 12 to get back to 6?

[Wentz_Era]

7 minutes ago, justrelax said:

I would agree with some of this but not all. Coleman clearly was physically outmatched regardless of his testing. I strongly disagree about Hurts’ pocket presence. He was miles better than Wentz in that regard. The propensity to run was a combination of coaching and lack of experience but that is not what defines pocket presence. He could slide, he stepped up in the pocket - the opposite of Wentz, who would drift back into the area where the tackles were running their rushers around the pocket - in other words moving into trouble and making his OL look bad into the bargain - and he was punished by bad blocking and terrible WR play, which, in my view was bad play design and play calling as much is mistakes by Hurts. I do not see a below average arm. That is a canard (french for BS). No, he doesn’t have Wentz’s arm but neither did Brees or Brady or any number of other QBs. You want Jeff George or Sam Bradford? You’re welcome to them.

Outside of that absolute beauty which created Alshon's only highlight of the season I saw a lot of wounded ducks and an inability to throw in between the hashes.  Like @greend said, I'll gladly be wrong, but I have post shoulder surgery Sanchez flashbacks watching a lot of throws from last year from him.  Hopefully it is indeed play calling as you said though.

  I said it a few days ago...if he's in the low to mid 60's completion wise and shows and ability to throw toward the middle of the field, I'll be happy with that progress and that he's trending towards a possible long term option.  I'd love to retain all the capital next year to build and not shoot our shot at another QB.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

9 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Did Miami get blacklisted for trading 12 to get back to 6?

They didn’t. 

Unknown if you had to move up to 10 to do that. Imo i think Dallas had eagles and bears offers on the table. Id be shocked if the bears didn’t call them and give them their offer as reports stated they had been since the start of the draft talking to teams between 5-12 to get a deal done. If that were the case and they chose the eagles offer, it would feel like they didn’t want to miss out on parsons by dropping to 20. So they very well might have taken parsons at 10 if they didn’t trade with the eagles. (Which means giants go smith and you likely getting a call from Chicago) 

[Wentz_Era]

6 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Did Miami get blacklisted for trading 12 to get back to 6?

Apples and oranges bud lol.  I'm talking about draft day trading up to milk more capital unless it's a true 3 team trade.  Not a few months before the draft accepting a ridiculous offer and using a portion of it to work your way back up.

[ManuManu]

5 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

Apples and oranges bud lol.  I'm talking about draft day trading up to milk more capital unless it's a true 3 team trade.  Not a few months before the draft accepting a ridiculous offer and using a portion of it to work your way back up.

It was essentially the same thing. The Dolphins only agreed to move up once Philly agreed. All three teams got what they wanted. Just like on draft day. And Dallas gifted that deal to the Giants, another division rival. 

[Original Sin]

Yet Brady never cried about it , he just won super bowls 

The Patriots drafted the same number of 1st-Round WR in Tom Brady's first 16 seasons with the team as the Packers in Aaron Rodgers' first 16 seasons in Green Bay:

Zero

[eagle45]

23 minutes ago, justrelax said:

I would agree with some of this but not all. Coleman clearly was physically outmatched regardless of his testing. I strongly disagree about Hurts’ pocket presence. He was miles better than Wentz in that regard. The propensity to run was a combination of coaching and lack of experience but that is not what defines pocket presence. He could slide, he stepped up in the pocket - the opposite of Wentz, who would drift back into the area where the tackles were running their rushers around the pocket - in other words moving into trouble and making his OL look bad into the bargain - and he was punished by bad blocking and terrible WR play, which, in my view was bad play design and play calling as much is mistakes by Hurts. I do not see a below average arm. That is a canard (french for BS). No, he doesn’t have Wentz’s arm but neither did Brees or Brady or any number of other QBs. You want Jeff George or Sam Bradford? You’re welcome to them.

I will agree that coaching damaged Hurts.

The rest...no way.  The only good thing I can say about Hurts is "you never know, no one thought Drew Brees and Russ Wilson would be franchise qbs either.” 
 

Best thing I can say.  

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

It was essentially the same thing. The Dolphins only agreed to move up once Philly agreed. All three teams got what they wanted. Just like on draft day. And Dallas gifted that deal to the Giants, another division rival. 

I actually think it played really well for the giants if they didn’t take toney at 20. If they went darrisaw or paye at 20 I’d have thought it was a great job by the giants. I view their QB situation as jones is likely playing this year for his job long term. If he is underwhelming and bad again now they have a high pick (theirs) and Chicago’s first in a much better 2022 draft to maneuver up the board to get another QB. The toney pick (i like toney just not at 20) really ruined the potential overall value in that trade. 

[ManuManu]

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I actually think it played really well for the giants if they didn’t take toney at 20. If they went darrisaw or paye at 20 I’d have thought it was a great job by the giants. I view their QB situation as jones is likely playing this year for his job long term. If he is underwhelming and bad again now they have a high pick (theirs) and Chicago’s first in a much better 2022 draft to maneuver up the board to get another QB. The toney pick (i like toney just not at 20) really ruined the potential overall value in that trade. 

Yeah the Toney pick was a real head scratcher. Bateman is better. 

[Wentz_Era]

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

It was essentially the same thing. The Dolphins only agreed to move up once Philly agreed. All three teams got what they wanted. Just like on draft day. And Dallas gifted that deal to the Giants, another division rival. 

I might not have interpreted what was being insinuated earlier, I read the comments as we should have made the trade just to extract more value.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

Just now, ManuManu said:

Yeah the Toney pick was a real head scratcher. Bateman is better. 

Even if they took Bateman i like that trade so much better for them. I was super high on Bateman. Frankly i don’t get why the giants badly wanted a WR. I could understand if smith fell to them at 11 and he is BPA and you really love him. But they have galladay, slayton and Shepard. toney isn’t smith and that felt like they were hell bent on going WR regardless. Plus i thought middle rounds they could get a very good slot receiver if they wanted to move on from Shepard sooner rather than later. 

[DeathByEagle]

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

SF just used 3 1s to get a QB. Trading down twice to get us a third and fourth 1 would allow us to get a QB without crippling our draft capital. It was a perfect scenario for us. 

If Hurts is as bad as your saying "We don't have a QB" then we will have a top 5 pick. I think your over reacting a bit on needing 4 first rounders. 

But in the end it really doesnt matter what you, I or anyone thinks since Howie and the FO felt Smith a top tier prospect and (3) 2022 firsts was better then a lower tier player and (4) firsts in 2022. Now some like yourself may not agree and some like myself will agree. But it's what we have either way so you will just have to live with it just like I had to live with Doug's poor game planning and Jim's predictable defense for 2 more years then I wanted. 

[Mike030270]

8 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Yet Brady never cried about it , he just won super bowls 

The Patriots drafted the same number of 1st-Round WR in Tom Brady's first 16 seasons with the team as the Packers in Aaron Rodgers' first 16 seasons in Green Bay:

Zero

Must have been nice to play in that weak division for long

[Original Sin]

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Must have been nice to play in that weak division for long

Had to get by Manning and Colts all the time , to win them 

[eagle45]

Toney is pretty good.  I think that’s pretty early for him, but he’s still good.  Seems to be very popular for Eagles fans to pile on the pick, but I bet the guy ends up being better than any round 1 or 2 WR we’ve drafted in the last decade.

[ManuManu]

5 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

If Hurts is as bad as your saying "We don't have a QB" then we will have a top 5 pick. I think your over reacting a bit on needing 4 first rounders. 

But in the end it really doesnt matter what you, I or anyone thinks since Howie and the FO felt Smith a top tier prospect and (3) 2022 firsts was better then a lower tier player and (4) firsts in 2022. Now some like yourself may not agree and some like myself will agree. But it's what we have either way so you will just have to live with it. 

I don’t think we "need”four first rounders, but having them would be great for a rebuild, along with the other picks Chicago offered to move up. 

But if we finish say 6-11, and someone QB is the clear top pick, it’s gonna be pricy. And even if we only needed two 1s to get a QB, we’d still have two 1s to use to bolster the team. To me, it’s a no-brainer. 

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Toney is pretty good.  I think that’s pretty early for him, but he’s still good.  Seems to be very popular for Eagles fans to pile on the pick, but I bet the guy ends up being better than any round 1 or 2 WR we’ve drafted in the last decade.

Better than Smith?

[eagle45]

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

I don’t think we "need”four first rounders, but having them would be great for a rebuild, along with the other picks Chicago offered to move up. 

But if we finish say 6-11, and someone QB is the clear top pick, it’s gonna be pricy. And even if we only needed two 1s to get a QB, we’d still have two 1s to use to bolster the team. To me, it’s a no-brainer. 

Better than Smith?

Last decade.  My money is on Smith over Toney for sure.  That would also include the Giants, who wanted Smith.

[DeathByEagle]

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Toney is pretty good.  I think that’s pretty early for him, but he’s still good.  Seems to be very popular for Eagles fans to pile on the pick, but I bet the guy ends up being better than any round 1 or 2 WR we’ve drafted in the last decade.

Toney is the 2021 version of Reagor, Waddle is the 2021 version of Ruggs, Chase is the 2021 version of Lamb. We landed the the 2021 version of Jefferson(great hands and route running, yes not saying he will be the league leader) I for one am happy with Smith

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

18 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Toney is pretty good.  I think that’s pretty early for him, but he’s still good.  Seems to be very popular for Eagles fans to pile on the pick, but I bet the guy ends up being better than any round 1 or 2 WR we’ve drafted in the last decade.

I like toney. I don’t think he was worthy of going 20. Frankly i Bateman was a better prospect and more polished than toney. I also dont think the giants needed another wide receiver with the trio they have along with Evan engram. I felt like they missed out on smith who they loved and were hell bent on taking a WR. They really could have used pass rusher and offensive line help which was there when they were picking and i say better value. 

[Saltpeter]

I hope Justin Jefferson retires, The Jeffersons gets taken off TV forever, and Thomas Jefferson gets taken off the nickel. Never wanna hear that name again.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

9 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Toney is the 2021 version of Reagor, Waddle is the 2021 version of Ruggs. We landed the the 2021 version of Jefferson(great hands and route running, yes not saying he will be the league leader) I for one am happy with Smith

No offense i think waddle is a better prospect than ruggs. And not by a small margin either. I was not as high on ruggs as everyone on this blog. I thought he was good not worthy of moving heaven and earth to go up and snatch where people wanted to get too. A ton of people on the blog and emb made ruggs out to be like he was going to be a all pro from day one leading up to that draft. 

also people bashed lamb cause he played at Oklahoma or was slow. He was on pace before Dak got hurt to break the rookie receiving record. 

[Original Sin]

I don’t know , I have been watching a bunch of Trask , and Toney is legit and worthy of his draft position , the Jags loved him . That said Grimes looks decent too , not sure why he went undrafted .

[ManuManu]

2 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

I don’t know , I have been watching a bunch of Trask , and Toney is legit and worthy of his draft position , the Jags loved him . That said Grimes looks decent too , not sure why he went undrafted .

Trask carried them. The NFL knows it. 

[greendestiny27]

4 hours ago, downundermike said:

We don't have any, because Howie sucks at drafting and only 2 of the 16 players drafted in 2016 and 2017 are still on the roster.

I mean it's a pretty simple answer 🤷‍♂️