14 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Let me put it another way... very few blue chip WRs make a difference to their team's success.   

Best WRs of the last 10 years or so... Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, Deandre Hopkins, Davante Adams.... add whomever you'd like.   How many playoff wins were they a part of?   How many Super Bowls?      Maybe the WR position isn't a 'blue chip' position or a foundational piece.   That doesn't mean that they can be as terrible at finding decent WRs as they have over the past few years, but let's not put the cart before the horse.   The WR position is a position highly dependent on others, specifically OL and QB.   If you don't have that foundation, your All-Pro WR doesn't mean much of anything.

If Smith turns out to be the player he's been projected to be, it should have the trickle down effect of making Reagor/Watkins/Fulgham better as well. If that's the case, we may finally be able to move past the WR position for the first time in a long time. A young, talented group of pass catchers is needed in this age of the NFL, IMO.

So if that position has finally be solved, we can now focus our draft picks next year in building up another portion of the team. Likely, the defensive side of the ball. Stoutland appears to be a miracle worker with the o-line, which allows some flexibility in not having to grab guys in the first round. So I would think the focus next year, should the WR's work out, would be primarily on defense. Early reports are that it will be a stacked draft for d-linemen. We of course need help everywhere on D. 

The big wild card for this team is really Hurts. If he can be good enough, and most of us don't think he can, then with a solid draft next year we could be competing again quickly. If Hurts is who we think he is, it makes things a lot more difficult.

I think Howie did a good job in maneuvering in the first round this year, with the obvious caveat that Smith works out. I think that would be worth far more than an additional 1st rounder next year, when we already have 2 and likely a 3rd. If we had 1 or no 1st rounders next year, the Bears deal would be far more enticing to me. 

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

If Smith turns out to be the player he's been projected to be, it should have the trickle down effect of making Reagor/Watkins/Fulgham better as well. If that's the case, we may finally be able to move past the WR position for the first time in a long time. A young, talented group of pass catchers is needed in this age of the NFL, IMO.

So if that position has finally be solved, we can now focus our draft picks next year in building up another portion of the team. Likely, the defensive side of the ball. Stoutland appears to be a miracle worker with the o-line, which allows some flexibility in not having to grab guys in the first round. So I would think the focus next year, should the WR's work out, would be primarily on defense. Early reports are that it will be a stacked draft for d-linemen. We of course need help everywhere on D. 

The big wild card for this team is really Hurts. If he can be good enough, and most of us don't think he can, then with a solid draft next year we could be competing again quickly. If Hurts is who we think he is, it makes things a lot more difficult.

I think Howie did a good job in maneuvering in the first round this year, with the obvious caveat that Smith works out. I think that would be worth far more than an additional 1st rounder next year, when we already have 2 and likely a 3rd. If we had 1 or no 1st rounders next year, the Bears deal would be far more enticing to me. 

Will it have a trickle up effect on the OL and QB?  Because that's the argument.

Yes, a talented group of WRs are needed in the NFL.  And those players can be found outside the top 10.    Stoutland is not a miracle worker on the OL, and I don't like that the through process has become to give him garbage to work with and expect that it will all work out, because... Stoutland.   Yes, he's a great coach.  Yes, likely the best in the NFL.  But, he needs players with raw ability to be able to get the most out of them.   Matt Pryor worked with Stoutland, regressed and now is considered hot garbage?   Where was that miracle?  Or, Herbig who is unable to move... He's just a guy that gets in the way and shields.  He is not a people mover.  He is not a guy who can pull and get outside.    So, let's try to get top athletes at the OL position, and let Stoutland work with them, rather than slugs. 

I agree, Hurts is the big wild card.  Dickerson is also a big wild card.  He's that great OL prospect... but also a walking wounded guy, can he stay healthy?  

 

I agree WR has moved up the list of priorities in the offensive philosophy now... but it has not surpassed QB and OL.   It's ahead of RB and FB.

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

If Smith turns out to be the player he's been projected to be, it should have the trickle down effect of making Reagor/Watkins/Fulgham better as well. If that's the case, we may finally be able to move past the WR position for the first time in a long time. A young, talented group of pass catchers is needed in this age of the NFL, IMO.

This is my biggest hope. A big issue with Fulgham and Reagor were consistent route running. Bringing a head coach that emphasizes clean routes and the best route runner in college football hopefully improves that aspect of both their games. 

Probably wishful thinking but that's all we got nowadays. 

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Will it have a trickle up effect on the OL and QB?  Because that's the argument.

Yes, a talented group of WRs are needed in the NFL.  And those players can be found outside the top 10.    Stoutland is not a miracle worker on the OL, and I don't like that the through process has become to give him garbage to work with and expect that it will all work out, because... Stoutland.   Yes, he's a great coach.  Yes, likely the best in the NFL.  But, he needs players with raw ability to be able to get the most out of them.   Matt Pryor worked with Stoutland, regressed and now is considered hot garbage?   Where was that miracle?  Or, Herbig who is unable to move... He's just a guy that gets in the way and shields.  He is not a people mover.  He is not a guy who can pull and get outside.    So, let's try to get top athletes at the OL position, and let Stoutland work with them, rather than slugs. 

I agree, Hurts is the big wild card.  Dickerson is also a big wild card.  He's that great OL prospect... but also a walking wounded guy, can he stay healthy?  

 

I agree WR has moved up the list of priorities in the offensive philosophy now... but it has not surpassed QB and OL.   It's ahead of RB and FB.

Lane Johnson - 4th overall, one of the best RT's in the league. No argument here.

Brooks - 76th overall, came as a free agent but really excelled under Stoutland.

Kelce - 191 overall, Philly legend. 

Seumalo - 79 overall, has steadily improved year over year, some people in here seem to knock him because he's not as good as the 4 potential HOF'ers he's been playing next to his entire career. Weird flex, but he's a starting guard on most teams in the league.

Mailata - 233 overall. This is Stout's Mona Lisa, the job he has done to mold an uber athelete into a productive player. 

Dillard is still a mystery, which is troubling going into his 3rd year. But we'll see soon enough. Herbig reportedly lost 30 lbs, who knows, but he showed enough to I think be considered a competent back up. 

The Pryor's and Toth's may turn into hot garbage. Some guys can't be helped. But my overall point here is that Stout IS a miracle worker. He can take guys with athletic potential and get the absolute most out of them. He'll never have a 100 percent average, that's impossible. But look at those guys and their draft positions, and I think the case is easily made that Stout can and does work wonders for players taken 3rd round or later. 

I agree with that it all starts with the lines, then QB. And I know you hate Howie, which is fair, he really messed up and deserves the heat. But I think his moves in the first round this year deserve credit and praise at this point. If they don't work out, maybe that's the straw that breaks the back for Jeff, though who even knows. 

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Bears won't be "good" but I wouldn't be so surprised if they are just average. 3 straight years with Mitch Trubisky and no losing record seasons. They could also implode and be one of the worst teams this season. Hard to say. 

17 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You know what those teams have in spades?   A top tier QB.   Bucs: Brady.   Until Brady got there, the 'legit #1 WR' in Evans didn't matter.   Same with Godwin.  They were also rans.  Counting backwards... 7-9, 5-11, 5-11, 9-7...   Shall I count all the way back to where Evans entered the picture? 

 

Or the Chiefs?   What would they be without Mahomes?  What would those WRs look like with Mahomes, but no OL?  Oh, we got to see that in the Super Bowl.    The NFL has changed... but it still depends on the QB and the OL.  If you don't have that... you don't have anything.

In fairness there was no in between . The qb before brady sucked

19 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Will it have a trickle up effect on the OL and QB?  Because that's the argument.

Yes, a talented group of WRs are needed in the NFL.  And those players can be found outside the top 10.    Stoutland is not a miracle worker on the OL, and I don't like that the through process has become to give him garbage to work with and expect that it will all work out, because... Stoutland.   Yes, he's a great coach.  Yes, likely the best in the NFL.  But, he needs players with raw ability to be able to get the most out of them.   Matt Pryor worked with Stoutland, regressed and now is considered hot garbage?   Where was that miracle?  Or, Herbig who is unable to move... He's just a guy that gets in the way and shields.  He is not a people mover.  He is not a guy who can pull and get outside.    So, let's try to get top athletes at the OL position, and let Stoutland work with them, rather than slugs. 

I agree, Hurts is the big wild card.  Dickerson is also a big wild card.  He's that great OL prospect... but also a walking wounded guy, can he stay healthy?  

 

I agree WR has moved up the list of priorities in the offensive philosophy now... but it has not surpassed QB and OL.   It's ahead of RB and FB.

What's a FB???

I still like the OL and I’m foolish enough to believe Lane, Brooks, and Kelce can be healthy most of the season.  If they can, the OL becomes a group where Dickerson, Driscoll, and one of Mailata/Dillard are depth players.  A healthy OL group means the Eagles can be a run-first offense with Sanders, Gainwell, and Scott — who is much more suited to be a 3rd down change of pace back rather than a #2.

A lot depends on a second year jump from Reagor as well.  He tweets a lot about being motivated, but let’s see if it translates to the field.  Devonta Smith should be an 80 catch and 1,100-1,200 yard WR most seasons, and Reagor needs to become a 60 catch, 800-900 yard WR to complement him.  If you have that production and add in contributions from Goedert, Fulgham (Grimes) and Watkins (Hightower) you have a pretty good offense to work with.

The defense might be further away.  I’m hopeful Milton Williams is a regular rotational DT with Cox and Hargrave, but the pass rush is going to depend a lot on how effective Barnett and Sweat are this season — that could be a big problem.  We will see how 2 high safety works with Anthony Harris and McLeod (Wallace/Epps).  One more season with Darius Slay at CB, Maddox likely moved to nickel CB, and we will have to see who mans the other outside CB position — that player might not be on the roster yet.  LB has to be better than last season — addition by subtraction.
 

 

53 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You know what those teams have in spades?   A top tier QB.   

No argument there. You need a QB who can play at a top 10 level for 4 weeks. It's the most important position.

Still, it's clear any top-tier QB also needs a "go-to" receiver. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2021/5/7/22424521/2022-nfl-mock-draft-roundup-eagles3-first-round-picks-sam-howell-spencer-rattler-malik-willis-qb-bgn

 

Good article to provide a list of names to get you started on prospects to watch for next year's picks. 

3 picks in round 1 is gonna be really exciting.

As of now,  I'd love CB, DE, OL. But that first mock with CB, DE, WR (Pickens) is nice!!

 

Not a big believer in Hurts. But man do I want him to be the guy we need him to be.  3 firsts can be transformational if we don't need to consolidate them all in to 1 player. 

9 minutes ago, Utebird said:

What's a FB???

Face Book

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2021/5/7/22424521/2022-nfl-mock-draft-roundup-eagles3-first-round-picks-sam-howell-spencer-rattler-malik-willis-qb-bgn

 

Good article to provide a list of names to get you started on prospects to watch for next year's picks. 

3 picks in round 1 is gonna be really exciting.

As of now,  I'd love CB, DE, OL. But that first mock with CB, DE, WR (Pickens) is nice!!

 

Not a big believer in Hurts. But man do I want him to be the guy we need him to be.  3 firsts can be transformational if we don't need to consolidate them all in to 1 player. 

Just took a look at FA's next year for QB and it's......really, really, ugly. 

 

12 minutes ago, Utebird said:

What's a FB???

Fat ****

20 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2021/5/7/22424521/2022-nfl-mock-draft-roundup-eagles3-first-round-picks-sam-howell-spencer-rattler-malik-willis-qb-bgn

 

Good article to provide a list of names to get you started on prospects to watch for next year's picks. 

3 picks in round 1 is gonna be really exciting.

As of now,  I'd love CB, DE, OL. But that first mock with CB, DE, WR (Pickens) is nice!!

 

Not a big believer in Hurts. But man do I want him to be the guy we need him to be.  3 firsts can be transformational if we don't need to consolidate them all in to 1 player. 

Ideally you want him to thrive and be the guy so you can use those picks on other areas of the team. But There’s also if he’s really bad you also picking high enough to get a QB as well. Frankly i don’t think they are going to be worse than the Texans regardless so the no. 1 pick is likely the Texans since watson isn’t playing there. 

this is why i keep saying you want hurts to be really good. That’s best case scenario. And if he’s not then really bad. If he’s just average or middle of the road, i tend to believe the eagles will use those firsts to move up to get a QB or trade for someone like Wilson

41 minutes ago, Utebird said:

What's a FB???

Fantastic boobs 

1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Hurts wants to run with it too, Howie.

31 minutes ago, greend said:

Fat ****

 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Fantastic boobs 

Both?

Interesting he thought Carolina was going to take him. Feel like Carolina needed corner and OL help immensely heading into the draft. He knew if he got to 11 the giants for sure were going to take him. 

 

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Ideally you want him to thrive and be the guy so you can use those picks on other areas of the team. But There’s also if he’s really bad you also picking high enough to get a QB as well. Frankly i don’t think they are going to be worse than the Texans regardless so the no. 1 pick is likely the Texans since watson isn’t playing there. 

this is why i keep saying you want hurts to be really good. That’s best case scenario. And if he’s not then really bad. If he’s just average or middle of the road, i tend to believe the eagles will use those firsts to move up to get a QB or trade for someone like Wilson

No matter how Hurts looks this season, I’m dead set against trading away assets to move up for a QB — only 2 of the top 10 NFL QBs in passing yards last season were top 5 draft picks — Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers.  Both of them were drafted more than 10 years ago.  The others — Watson #12, Mahomes #10, Brady #199, Josh Allen #7, Herbert #6, Aaron Rodgers #24, Cousins 4th round, Russell Wilson 3rd round.

Jameis Winston lost his job, Marcus Mariota lost his job, Wentz and Goff lost their jobs, Trubisky and Darnold lost their jobs.  Mayfield is only successful because of a run-first scheme and somewhat stacked roster around him.

Let the other teams pay a high mortgage to jump up into the top 3.  Focus on building the roster and draft a QB at your draft slot only if he fits the plan.

 

52 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Lane Johnson - 4th overall, one of the best RT's in the league. No argument here.

Brooks - 76th overall, came as a free agent but really excelled under Stoutland.

Kelce - 191 overall, Philly legend. 

Seumalo - 79 overall, has steadily improved year over year, some people in here seem to knock him because he's not as good as the 4 potential HOF'ers he's been playing next to his entire career. Weird flex, but he's a starting guard on most teams in the league.

Mailata - 233 overall. This is Stout's Mona Lisa, the job he has done to mold an uber athelete into a productive player. 

Dillard is still a mystery, which is troubling going into his 3rd year. But we'll see soon enough. Herbig reportedly lost 30 lbs, who knows, but he showed enough to I think be considered a competent back up. 

The Pryor's and Toth's may turn into hot garbage. Some guys can't be helped. But my overall point here is that Stout IS a miracle worker. He can take guys with athletic potential and get the absolute most out of them. He'll never have a 100 percent average, that's impossible. But look at those guys and their draft positions, and I think the case is easily made that Stout can and does work wonders for players taken 3rd round or later. 

I agree with that it all starts with the lines, then QB. And I know you hate Howie, which is fair, he really messed up and deserves the heat. But I think his moves in the first round this year deserve credit and praise at this point. If they don't work out, maybe that's the straw that breaks the back for Jeff, though who even knows. 

There is a difference between providing quality athletes and using high draft picks.   Brooks was a 3rd round pick, but a great athlete.  Kelce a 6th, but a great athlete (btw, he started under Mudd, so we can't give Stoutland all the credit with Kelce).   My point is that you can't give a great chef garbage ingredients and expect him to make a great meal.  But, providing great ingredients doesn't necessarily mean 'expensive' ingredients.   Herbig losing 30 lbs is a good sign, and maybe he can show more athleticism than he did.  But, last year he wasn't 'good enough', he was just better than Pryor.   Not exactly high praise.   

 

Stoutland is a great teacher, but for a great teacher to really shine, the teacher also needs a great student.  So, he is not a miracle worker.  You can't just give him any OL and expect great things.  Sorry.  But, the idea that Stoutland can work with any offensive lineman and make them great is just an unrealistic expectation.   And given the age, and the loss of athleticism that comes with age and injury, this OL does need new pieces (not necessarily top flight pieces).   And so, I would have made the Bears trade, because WR is such a dependent position, because the rules make it easier for above average (not necessarily great) WRs look better than they probably are, because schemes can be devised to create open receivers.   But, if your QB can't hit them, or he can't find them because he's running for his life, then that's a bigger problem.  You don't put carpeting in your house until the walls and roof are in place.  

 

My issues with Howie (whom I don't 'hate', but want to see held accountable) are a secondary issue to saying that WR is a lower priority position than OL and QB, and ensuring that those positions are locked down before adding the cherry on top.   This isn't about Howie, but about roster construction and process, not who is in charge.  The Bears' offer would have created an embarrassment of riches for 2022, which again, is a much deeper draft, and one that there will be a great deal more information available to scout players.   The 2020 NCAA season, and therefore the 2021 draft was highly anomalous.  2021 NCAA season, hopefully will not be.   And therefore, the 2022 draft will be much more in line with previous ones.    The Bears' deal would have made acquiring a new QB, if necessary, much easier.  And would have made also surrounding whichever QB is here with more talent.    So, don't get the idea that this is an anti-Howie thought process, it wouldn't matter who the GM is.  My answer would be the same even if Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi, or anyone else was running this draft.    Also, don't misconstrue my statements about Stoutland as short changing him.  On the contrary, my statements about him are to quell expectations.  Give him ideal ingredients, he will make them sing.  Give him quality ingredients and he can still make a great meal.   Give him dumpster fodder ingredients, and you get garbage.  He's not a miracle worker, he's just a damn good coach.  But, even the best coaches can't work 'miracles'.  That's setting them up for failure.   Just like its setting your QB up for failure to not provide him a quality OL, or quality receivers.  They can't make up for all deficiencies everywhere.

1 hour ago, greend said:

In fairness there was no in between . The qb before brady sucked

Agreed.   

The 2021 season will illuminate how truly incompetent Doug Pederson was in 2020.

52 minutes ago, RLC said:

No argument there. You need a QB who can play at a top 10 level for 4 weeks. It's the most important position.

Still, it's clear any top-tier QB also needs a "go-to" receiver. 

I don't disagree with that.   I just think the Eagles got the order wrong, especially given the offer that was apparently on the table.   And frankly, if that move up had been for a different position than WR, I'd likely have a different stance.   I just don't see WR as a foundational piece.  And this team desperately needs young foundational pieces... right now, I'd say that they don't have any definitive foundational pieces.   Maybe Mailata, if he can keep growing into the position.  A bigger maybe with Hurts.   But after that... who?  Anyone under 25 that you look at and say, "This is a guy to build around"?   I don't see it.   

1 minute ago, Saltpeter said:

The 2021 season will illuminate how truly incompetent Doug Pederson was in 2020.

How so? Different team

15 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

No matter how Hurts looks this season, I’m dead set against trading away assets to move up for a QB — only 2 of the top 10 NFL QBs in passing yards last season were top 5 draft picks — Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers.  Both of them were drafted more than 10 years ago.  The others — Watson #12, Mahomes #10, Brady #199, Josh Allen #7, Herbert #6, Aaron Rodgers #24, Cousins 4th round, Russell Wilson 3rd round.

Jameis Winston lost his job, Marcus Mariota lost his job, Wentz and Goff lost their jobs, Trubisky and Darnold lost their jobs.  Mayfield is only successful because of a run-first scheme and somewhat stacked roster around him.

Let the other teams pay a high mortgage to jump up into the top 3.  Focus on building the roster and draft a QB at your draft slot only if he fits the plan.

 

You Might not want too (i would prefer not having too as well) but i don’t think that’s how the eagles would view it. They’ve shown they are willing to jump up to grab their QB they love like they did with wentz. I think lurie values getting a QB he loves and will pay the price to get one he truly thinks can be special (again under if hurts is just average or bad this upcoming year but if he’s good his is a moot point) 

Additionally i don’t necessarily think it has to be someone in the draft. I wouldn’t rule out russell Wilson or if a QB becomes available like we saw this offseason. I firmly believe they were interested in watson before his off the field issues came to light. (Not that he would’ve waived his NTC to come here). So i still think of a veteran QB becomes available that’s another avenue they could go.