joemas6 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 17 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said: We have him for two more years with a third year tag option. Just let it play out. If he’s deserving of fifty mil then you pay it. I don’t foresee it going down quite like that. What do you think the tag option is going to cost year 3? Where was Dak ranked in your mind when he got tagged and then the big contract? This while being injured. You think the players union and the public perception is going to allow Hurts ( if he is a top 15 QB,and improving) to not make the going rate? This in a league that has a Rooney rule and gives out 3rd round picks. You think they are not going to have to pay Hurts??? Why, because he already has " intangibles "...lol. Its not the player, the agent or the team that makes that call. For someone who likes to brag about his ability to read between the lines, why can't you understand this obvious one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 The only way you get Hurts on the cheap... is if you sign him after next year... and that would still be looking like $30 mil per year. You aren't getting top 15 results without having to pay for it. And for sure not with a dude who is in Hurts situation. If he's truly perceived as top 15 and improving... and the perception is that the Eagles already got him at a discount on his rookie deal... no shot at getting him less than the going rate. If not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 10 QBs average 30 mil per year salary. Another 5 average 25 mil or more...with Brady # 15 at exactly $25 mil. The QBs from 11-14 are Tannehill, Jimmy G, Stafford and Carr. These guys are already years into their deals... the next crop of starting QBs to sign their 2nd contracts are going to be higher as the cap jumps up. If you are in the top half of starters, you are getting paid for sure. Your discount that you give a team could be that the average salary starts with a 3 .. most likely higher than 35 mil and probably closer to 40. If you don't get that $$$, there is simply one reason. You aren't good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stine Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Salaries are going crazy! At what point does the team owners say "WE cannot pay more" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 21 minutes ago, stine said: Salaries are going crazy! At what point does the team owners say "WE cannot pay more" ? Well... they make all that money and they can pay, so they will. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Burrow and Herbert should be around $50 mil per year when their time comes. The Eagles will have to make a decision to pay Hurts, or use that money on a few big time free agents. Watch how all of a sudden the spin becomes how the " intangibles" just aren't the same. That's if he finishes next year as a clear starter. Dude better brush up on his phonics and learn to read. 2 years gone already on a 4 year rookie deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninghamtheman Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 3 hours ago, Asg 15 said: No dumber than Buffalo not kicking the ball on the ground with 13 seconds remaining. They would have at least used up a few seconds Who was back there returning? If it was the Cheetah or Hardman nope. I boot it through the endzone. 1 hour ago, joemas6 said: What do you think the tag option is going to cost year 3? Where was Dak ranked in your mind when he got tagged and then the big contract? This while being injured. You think the players union and the public perception is going to allow Hurts ( if he is a top 15 QB,and improving) to not make the going rate? This in a league that has a Rooney rule and gives out 3rd round picks. You think they are not going to have to pay Hurts??? Why, because he already has " intangibles "...lol. Its not the player, the agent or the team that makes that call. For someone who likes to brag about his ability to read between the lines, why can't you understand this obvious one? Dallas screwed up. They trade for Amari and launch Dak’s price. That’s how I saw it go down. Should have signed him long term then brought in the receivers. 1 hour ago, joemas6 said: The only way you get Hurts on the cheap... is if you sign him after next year... and that would still be looking like $30 mil per year. You aren't getting top 15 results without having to pay for it. And for sure not with a dude who is in Hurts situation. If he's truly perceived as top 15 and improving... and the perception is that the Eagles already got him at a discount on his rookie deal... no shot at getting him less than the going rate. If not more. I don’t think Dak gets that mega payday if they don’t trade for Cooper. He wasn’t looking that great. Could have signed him much cheaper instead of top QB money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 50 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said: Who was back there returning? If it was the Cheetah or Hardman nope. I boot it through the endzone. Dallas screwed up. They trade for Amari and launch Dak’s price. That’s how I saw it go down. Should have signed him long term then brought in the receivers. I don’t think Dak gets that mega payday if they don’t trade for Cooper. He wasn’t looking that great. Could have signed him much cheaper instead of top QB money. The rate for the QB is what it is. When the contract is up, he gets the money if he is a top half of the league starter. And look at the guys from 11-14 ... Tannehill, Carr, Jimmy G and Stafford. I'm not talking about the very " top money" I'm talking about the going rate for a decent starting QB. If Dak was paid 5 million less a year, it's still a big contract. What do you expect from Hurts? $ 8 million per year to be top 15 starter? I'm curious on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Dallas did screw up...by being wishy washy and not signing him after year 3. His price went up and the cap hit was way higher. But you have 2 scenarios when the rookie deal is coming to and end. You pay the guy or you search for another QB. For me, I absolutely disagree that a team like Dallas screwed up putting better players around their QB. That's what should have been done, and should be done here. If you pay a guy, then you should have him in an opportunity to succeed,otherwise it's a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Here, either Hurts is going to get paid,or we search for the next guy. For me, I want the roster built now. But my reason is for the next QB. If anyone is a Hurts fan, they should also want that roster built for him to succeed. But if he succeeds, he is going to get paid. Otherwise you are just rooting for Hurts to be ok, but if you are a true fan of his, you should want him to have the success that brings both the playoff wins and the big time $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Is there a fairytale world where a team signs a QB after they have been in the league for 4 years...to a cheap long term contract and the QB performs at a top 15 level... and then just remains on a cheap deal? As a fan you either want your team to win and get paid or you don't. Can't have it both ways... barring the rookie deal. If you want to keep flipping rookie QBs without paying for one then fine. For me, I'll pay a top guy for 10 -12 years without an issue. Then I move on getting the other pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninghamtheman Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 4 hours ago, joemas6 said: Dallas did screw up...by being wishy washy and not signing him after year 3. His price went up and the cap hit was way higher. But you have 2 scenarios when the rookie deal is coming to and end. You pay the guy or you search for another QB. For me, I absolutely disagree that a team like Dallas screwed up putting better players around their QB. That's what should have been done, and should be done here. If you pay a guy, then you should have him in an opportunity to succeed,otherwise it's a waste. We laughed at Dallas about Dak. While we made a monster mistake in signing Wentz. Both teams probably failed. 4 hours ago, joemas6 said: Here, either Hurts is going to get paid,or we search for the next guy. For me, I want the roster built now. But my reason is for the next QB. If anyone is a Hurts fan, they should also want that roster built for him to succeed. But if he succeeds, he is going to get paid. Otherwise you are just rooting for Hurts to be ok, but if you are a true fan of his, you should want him to have the success that brings both the playoff wins and the big time $$$. I see where you are leaning and going with your opinions here. You’re not entirely wrong. The market for each position tends to be what it is. I’m saying that the fourth best guy can get paid more than the best guy simply because it’s his time(opportunity for a new contract). I get where you are coming from on all that. I agree with that. But there is also the fact that your only worth what somebody will pay you. If nobody is willing to pay 50 mil for Hurts then he won’t get that. He’ll get whatever somebody is willing to pay. You really don’t have to sweat this type of situation for quite a while. He has two more years left under contract. If he lights it up then you extend him and pay that big money. Otherwise you have time to let it play out. You can always tag him for three more seasons with us. He has to step way up for me to be willing to pay 50 mil. I think my opinion about that is similar to what most the league believes. That’s Franchise QB money. Nobody is paying that unless they consider him their Franchise QB. I don’t foresee it going that way. He’ll get big money because QBs are the most expensive. But I think that big money is going to be far short of the 50 mil a year franchise elite QB money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninghamtheman Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 What I do think he’ll be able to do is get a real high portion guaranteed. Maybe the franchise money will be there in incentives. Like, he gets the 50 mil if he’s All Pro or SB winning. 50 mil can be really difficult to manage even for a great QB. 208 mil total cap right now. We just saw how 60 mil of dead money crippled our team. Vikings have gone backwards paying Cousins. I believe the whole league took notice heavily of those situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninghamtheman Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 Sean Payton out in New Orleans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninghamtheman Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 His career in New Orleans really gets you thinking. He’s been known as a top coach. Been a great playcaller. Ruthless in his approach. Probably crossing the lines of fair play consistently. He’s no Boy Scout…that’s for sure. He had Drew Brees who held the record for career passing yards. Great coach(that cheats even) and great QB. Yet only won one SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninghamtheman Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 So I hear everybody seems obsessed with getting that QB. In those thoughts are they thinking they will get better than Brees? Do they think Siri is better than Payton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said: What I do think he’ll be able to do is get a real high portion guaranteed. Maybe the franchise money will be there in incentives. Like, he gets the 50 mil if he’s All Pro or SB winning. 50 mil can be really difficult to manage even for a great QB. 208 mil total cap right now. We just saw how 60 mil of dead money crippled our team. Vikings have gone backwards paying Cousins. I believe the whole league took notice heavily of those situations. Ok... let's keep it simple hear ... and stop obsessing about 50 million. Your scenarios.... where Hurts is the 15th best QB . Let's keep it there... and not worry about him getting the highest $$.. instead let's put him in Jimmy G, Tannehill, Carr, Stafford area. 1. You tag him... just curious as to what you think the tag will be in 2 years? 2. He is legit the 15th best QB, and he gets paid as such. What do you think that # will look like? Give me some #s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninghamtheman Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 I’d think the franchise tag will be around 33 mil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 Btw.. I laughed at Dallas because they used the tag on a guy I knew they were going to give the money to anyway. The tag is the dumbest move, it has the entire cap hit. Each year the price goes up. Dallas should have given the big contract after year 3. Paying Dak is not wrong, waiting cost them. Eagles messed up... not by giving the $ when they did, but paying $ and having Travis Fulgham be the best WR. If we pay a guy, I want people around him to see if he can win. Like 2017 squad. Right now, I want Hurts to have all the weapons and opportunities to be the guy. I'm not paying a guy to be a " savior" ...I'm paying him to take the good team that I built around him to a title. 15th best QB to me is a franchise QB... franchise doesn't mean elite... it means permanent career starter for me. A guy you can win with. Like I said, the "discount rate" for Hurts if he is legit 15th best would be high 30s, low 40s ( millions per year avg) I'm not obsessed with the 50mil # like you seem to be. I don't foresee Hurts being good enough to be legit 15th best and get that. You seem to think he is going to be that and cost $10 mil per year or something? " just tag him" absolutely the worst idea. By that time the tag will be in the 40mil range. Plus it all counts toward the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said: I’d think the franchise tag will be around 33 mil In 2024? 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninghamtheman Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 The numbers in a long term contract for the 15th best QB are obviously difficult to guess at. Just takes one team to pay a certain amount. Like how Jax paid Foles. Nobody thought he should make that. The contracts are really tricky. Cousins was the first to get his contract fully guaranteed. So it’s up to the player and their agent to figure out how much they choose to gamble. Do you just want the most you can get fully guaranteed? Or….are you willing to roll the dice more and taken a heavy incentive laden contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said: I’d think the franchise tag will be around 33 mil Let's say you are correct. You ok paying that to Hurts, with it all counting toward the cap? And you foresee the Eagles doing that... or giving him say 5 years at $150 mil. With what he has shown so far, because he is the 15th best QB in your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninghamtheman Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, joemas6 said: Btw.. I laughed at Dallas because they used the tag on a guy I knew they were going to give the money to anyway. The tag is the dumbest move, it has the entire cap hit. Each year the price goes up. Dallas should have given the big contract after year 3. Paying Dak is not wrong, waiting cost them. Eagles messed up... not by giving the $ when they did, but paying $ and having Travis Fulgham be the best WR. If we pay a guy, I want people around him to see if he can win. Like 2017 squad. Right now, I want Hurts to have all the weapons and opportunities to be the guy. I'm not paying a guy to be a " savior" ...I'm paying him to take the good team that I built around him to a title. 15th best QB to me is a franchise QB... franchise doesn't mean elite... it means permanent career starter for me. A guy you can win with. Like I said, the "discount rate" for Hurts if he is legit 15th best would be high 30s, low 40s ( millions per year avg) I'm not obsessed with the 50mil # like you seem to be. I don't foresee Hurts being good enough to be legit 15th best and get that. You seem to think he is going to be that and cost $10 mil per year or something? " just tag him" absolutely the worst idea. By that time the tag will be in the 40mil range. Plus it all counts toward the cap. He’s already 15th best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said: The numbers in a long term contract for the 15th best QB are obviously difficult to guess at. Just takes one team to pay a certain amount. Like how Jax paid Foles. Nobody thought he should make that. The contracts are really tricky. Cousins was the first to get his contract fully guaranteed. So it’s up to the player and their agent to figure out how much they choose to gamble. Do you just want the most you can get fully guaranteed? Or….are you willing to roll the dice more and taken a heavy incentive laden contract? Ham... again...you are way overthinking it. If a guy is legit 15th best, he is going to get paid. And it's going to be a non-elite # that is going to be high in 2024... 40mil or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemas6 Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said: He’s already 15th best Then bro.... his price ain't gonna be less than 40 mil per year. Neither he, nor the Eagles are going to set that price. It's just going to be what it is at the time. Your " Jalen Hurts is the ultimate best human being in the world" discount is already part of bringing that # down from $50 mil area. The league and players union will have influence. You can bet they won't let him make too much of a discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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