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cunninghamtheman

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So I wasn’t ever saying Franchise QB equals MVP. But am feeling Hurts needs to be in contention for the MVP, for him, in his specific situation, to work out an extension after this season.

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I do think that five mil a year difference is significant. Ten very much. So the difference between Watson at 46 and getting Hurts in at 36 is exactly what I’m looking at.

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Thinking Watson all guaranteed at 46. Going for Hurts at 30 plus the bonus and incentive options where he could receive 46.

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Hurts was 5th in playaction passing. 2nd in passing grade for extended dropbacks. First in outside the tackle box passing grade. These stats alone really go against the haters narrative of him being a one read and run QB.

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On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2022 at 3:20 PM, joemas6 said:

I'll say on record that i think good chance both the Eagles and the Saints make the playoffs.   The Saints had pretty much everything go wrong last year and won 9 games.  

I'm a big fan of Sean Payton, but over the years it's kinda fallen off as far as the impact I think he’s had.  I don't see why they can't win 9 or 10 games this year.    Buy I'm absolutely rooting against them the next 2 seasons. 

  Payton was a great HC and Allen is no where near him in terms of offensive schemes. I highly doubt he will do well and will be surprised if he does. He has not done well as a HC in Oakland and is not a Great DC either IMO. So not sure why anyone would be confident he succeeds in NO.

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3 hours ago, stine said:

  Payton was a great HC and Allen is no where near him in terms of offensive schemes. I highly doubt he will do well and will be surprised if he does. He has not done well as a HC in Oakland and is not a Great DC either IMO. So not sure why anyone would be confident he succeeds in NO.

They have fielded a top defense consistently with the Saints. I give him credit as a DC. Being a HC is a whole other ball game.

Saints have a very good team though. Strong additions this offseason. I’m not sold on Winston though.

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Nyhiem Hines made a comment about how Ryan doesn’t miss the layups. Exactly what their GM complained about with Wentz.

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13 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So I wasn’t ever saying Franchise QB equals MVP. But am feeling Hurts needs to be in contention for the MVP, for him, in his specific situation, to work out an extension after this season.

???????    He needs to prove he is franchise QB.  That's it.  No MVP contention.  You overthink a very very very very very simple situation. 

From QB perspective, he gets $1.9 mil next year with zero guaranteed after that.   If a 9 figure deal is put in front of him with a guaranteed 20, 30, 40 or whatever million....that's a life changer for him... he has incentive to sign a deal.

For the Eagles ...  you sign him early, you use 2023 as first year absorbing any signing bonus or a possible roster bonus.  You get him with 2023 cap and salary #s.    It's 2 huge ways to save big time on cap hits.

It's not complicated.   It's easier than having Wentz, who had MVP level season, was a 2nd pick, and had a 5th year option. In that situation, the idea was to absolutely set the market but also do it with anticipation of where it was going.   It's a much easier situation for both sides with Hurts, because Hurts doesn't have the leverage of MVP season,5th year option or a decent salary or previous salaries already in the bank.  They don't need to set any market, and Hurts shouldn't be looking for that.  

It's a simple..." sign here and guarantee your job and your family's future.  If you feel underpaid in 3 to 5 years, then go sign your next deal.  Otherwise nothing in your future is guaranteed.  

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13 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Thinking Watson all guaranteed at 46. Going for Hurts at 30 plus the bonus and incentive options where he could receive 46.

Again... semantics for a guy making less than Brian Hoyer next year. Forget the #s... it's a matter of if the job is his long term and the team commitment towards that.   5 years 150 mil or 5 years 230 mil BOTH are a sign of that commitment.  That is the step that needs to be done after this year.   

The Eagles nor Hurts benefit from waiting.  

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1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Nyhiem Hines made a comment about how Ryan doesn’t miss the layups. Exactly what their GM complained about with Wentz.

Colts superbowl... it was all Wentz.   Comments in June matter....except when it puts expectations on Hurts... then they don't count. 

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Because a guy under rookie pay shouldn’t consider his market value or options? Just that he is being offered much more than he’s getting now….so should jump at that deal? Not how I would look at it if I was a player or agent at all. 46 mil guaranteed is the bar fir the market at the position. But because he’s still in rookie pay he shouldn’t consider his possible worth at all. Just more money than his rookie contract he should jump at? That’s really your position in things?

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should I change my Expectations now that the Eagles signed a starting safety? That was the weakest link on this defense. Now they really do not have a weakness to attack. I can only see a couple areas for concern now.

1) QB - how well Hurts performs will dictate how far the team goes. Of course all but Ham know this...

2) Rb depth - Sanders cannot make it thru a season. So how well do they fare should he get sidelined for 3-6 weeks?

3) TE depth - Yes Dallas should benefit from the WR's. But after him, what is there?

  That is all I can think of. Not too much cause for concern. We have age to deal with on the D-Line, but there appears to be enough depth there... Johnson and Kelce are getting no younger also....

   So I had 9 wins as my top total before all of the FA signings. Should I raise this a bit? 10-11? I am not sure. We have so many players that I need to see how they all fit before predicting double digit wins...

 

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What annoys me about the hurts debate is that by doing his job, Sirianni / Steichen will make him look better than he is with the game planning, etc. I want to see plays where he is being an actual QB and not going with a script. Like he actually led a WR open on the 3rd read, etc...

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1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Because a guy under rookie pay shouldn’t consider his market value or options? Just that he is being offered much more than he’s getting now….so should jump at that deal? Not how I would look at it if I was a player or agent at all. 46 mil guaranteed is the bar fir the market at the position. But because he’s still in rookie pay he shouldn’t consider his possible worth at all. Just more money than his rookie contract he should jump at? That’s really your position in things?

Wait wait.... I can't follow at all how your mind works?

1. Hurts is the 12th best QB or whatever it was.  The most explosive player in the league,he's a winner.

2.  But you don't want to pay him

3. Now Hurts shouldn't settle for $35 ,mil per year?  

I can't follow anything you are saying.  

Bottom line,he proves he is a good starter this year, the Eagles will pay.  If not, they will not pay and move on.  A negotiation of a few million here and there is not going to be an obstacle.  The Eagles pay their players,  especially the QBs.

They used a tag on Vick because the new CBA wasn't negotiated yet.  That's the ONLY reason, because neither side knew what it would look like until that summer. 

2022 for Hurts...play well get the $$$  .... don't and you'll be looking for a job soon. 

 

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3 minutes ago, matchew88 said:

What annoys me about the hurts debate is that by doing his job, Sirianni / Steichen will make him look better than he is with the game planning, etc. I want to see plays where he is being an actual QB and not going with a script. Like he actually led a WR open on the 3rd read, etc...

I think this basic stuff is the question.  If he can do what you said, then he gets his $$ and the team should be playing well into January.

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4 hours ago, stine said:

should I change my Expectations now that the Eagles signed a starting safety? That was the weakest link on this defense. Now they really do not have a weakness to attack. I can only see a couple areas for concern now.

1) QB - how well Hurts performs will dictate how far the team goes. Of course all but Ham know this...

2) Rb depth - Sanders cannot make it thru a season. So how well do they fare should he get sidelined for 3-6 weeks?

3) TE depth - Yes Dallas should benefit from the WR's. But after him, what is there?

  That is all I can think of. Not too much cause for concern. We have age to deal with on the D-Line, but there appears to be enough depth there... Johnson and Kelce are getting no younger also....

   So I had 9 wins as my top total before all of the FA signings. Should I raise this a bit? 10-11? I am not sure. We have so many players that I need to see how they all fit before predicting double digit wins...

 

Wait a minute. For the first question. PFF ranked Tartt as like 50 something out of 64 S. Harris is over the hill. There was a huge breakdown of how much better Santa Clara’s D was when Tartt was actually on the field. But they ranked him as missing a bunch of tackles and bad in coverage. I don’t think their grading system is all knowing or anything. But those aren’t great indicators in his favor. The defense giving up less points and yards when he plays maybe points to areas grading isn’t identifying…..or that his backup was completely terrible. Both guys have tons of experience and give the DC the ability he should have the full playbook available is their main benefit. So even if they aren’t good he at least can play to everybody else’s strengths. I actually really like Epps the most of any of our S. Feels like two different DC favored others than him and he overcame and earned his way against their preconceived preferences. That speaks volumes to me. He clearly wasn’t handed or given any job. Liking him the most of any of our S is admittedly a low bar. He doesn’t have a Pro Bowl level ceiling IMO. I do think he’s starter quality that can do his job and not be a liability. So that’s what I’d look to for his role. 

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12 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Wait a minute. For the first question. PFF ranked Tartt as like 50 something out of 64 S. Harris is over the hill. There was a huge breakdown of how much better Santa Clara’s D was when Tartt was actually on the field. But they ranked him as missing a bunch of tackles and bad in coverage. I don’t think their grading system is all knowing or anything. But those aren’t great indicators in his favor. The defense giving up less points and yards when he plays maybe points to areas grading isn’t identifying…..or that his backup was completely terrible. Both guys have tons of experience and give the DC the ability he should have the full playbook available is their main benefit. So even if they aren’t good he at least can play to everybody else’s strengths. I actually really like Epps the most of any of our S. Feels like two different DC favored others than him and he overcame and earned his way against their preconceived preferences. That speaks volumes to me. He clearly wasn’t handed or given any job. Liking him the most of any of our S is admittedly a low bar. He doesn’t have a Pro Bowl level ceiling IMO. I do think he’s starter quality that can do his job and not be a liability. So that’s what I’d look to for his role. 

 . Yes, he had a bad year last year, but that could have been due to injuries. Fact is the 49ers record with him in the line up was much better than the 18-15 record when he wasn't. He is not a play maker, but he rarely gets beat deep also. He is a steady player and better than what the Eagles have currently. If anything, it solidifies the position. They now have 3 instead of 2 which should make anyone happy. I did not read anything that said he was bad in coverage or missing allot of tackles. He had a bad season in 2021, but he was fine previously. Maybe that is why the Eagles signed him to a 1 year contract. Most players perform well on a  "Prove it" deal. I would think nothing less this time.

  I can see him playing with Epps and having Harris as the 3rd man.

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Here is something I know Joe will love! Jordan Davis has been used as a TE and RB for Georgia's offense. There is an article on here that states what it would be like to have Mailata, Davis and Dickerson on one side of the line, opening holes for any of our RB's. That is over 1,000 lbs pushing the Defensive front.... Not sure any D-Line could stop that...

   Also, Imagine giving a 340 lb dude the ball behind Mailata and Dickerson..... Again, not sure anyone could stop that for less than 2 yards...

  Anyone?

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Davis has speed and agility for a big guy as well. Remember we wanted to see Mailata with the ball as well, never happened.

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No quarterback the Eagles are currently expected to face in 2022 won a playoff game in 2021.

 

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3 hours ago, stine said:

Here is something I know Joe will love! Jordan Davis has been used as a TE and RB for Georgia's offense. There is an article on here that states what it would be like to have Mailata, Davis and Dickerson on one side of the line, opening holes for any of our RB's. That is over 1,000 lbs pushing the Defensive front.... Not sure any D-Line could stop that...

   Also, Imagine giving a 340 lb dude the ball behind Mailata and Dickerson..... Again, not sure anyone could stop that for less than 2 yards...

  Anyone?

Love it....  because you aren't taking a guy who is your best blocker.... away from being a blocker.   Run everybody behind Mailata....just can't run Mailata behind Mailata. 

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