EMB Blog: 2021 Training Camp / Preseason

[RememberTheKoy]

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

2017 is ancient history. 

 

Not talking about only 2017.  I'm talking about 2018 & 2019 as well where many in this fanbase on the EMB were very critical of Wentz.  Many of those same people are now clamoring for Watson.  Watson in 2018 & 2019 with the best WR in the league really wasn't any better than Wentz in 2018 & 2019 playing with junk.  

[ManuManu]

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Not talking about only 2017.  I'm talking about 2018 & 2019 as well where many in this fanbase on the EMB were very critical of Wentz.  Many of those same people are now clamoring for Watson.  Watson in 2018 & 2019 with the best WR in the league really wasn't any better than Wentz in 2018 & 2019 playing with junk.  

Lol. Box score scouting. 

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

9 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

The last 3 years Watson has given those type of seasons?

2020 70.2%, 4,823 yards, 33 TD, 7 INT

2019: 67.3%, 3,852 yards, 26 TD,. 12 INT

2018: 68.3%, 4,165 yards, 26 TD and 9 INT.

 

Meanwhile you say the Eagles only got one of those seasons once from Wentz in 2017.  What?

2019: 63.9%, 4,039 yards, 27 TD and 7 INT

2018: 69.6%, 3,074 yards, 21 TD and 7 INT

2017: 60.2%, 3,296 yards, 33 TD and 7 INT.

 

 

He really hasn't been better at all compared to Wentz's stretch from 2017-2019 yet many of the same people who are now clamoring for Watson were down on Wentz after 2017 in those 2018 & 2019 years still pining for Foles.  

 

 

His 2020 season was statistically better than wentz’s mvp season even if wentz played the last 3 games. Wentz would’ve had more ints and more tds and less yards at his pace. And a completion percentage 6 points less than Watson’s average 

So give him 2019 and 2018  Frankly i didn’t think wentz played well in 2019 until the last month of the season were he got hot. That was a five game stretch. The other 11 games he wasn’t all that great. He was for a month against arguably the worst competition in the league 4 games against top 5 picking teams and the Cowboys. 

so the eagles have had what 6 seasons of that meanwhile watson has had 3 of those in 3 straight seasons. So what the eagles have accomplished in 6 seasons in over a decade since mcnabb left, he’s half way there lol 

Just so we are realistic watson. has had more passing yards, significantly better completion percentage over those three years, more tds than wentz and the only thing wentz had on him was less Ints. And I’d add watson won a playoff game. 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

He really hasn't been better at all compared to Wentz's stretch from 2017-2019 yet many of the same people who are now clamoring for Watson were down on Wentz after 2017 in those 2018 & 2019 years still pining for Foles.  

 

 

Yeah, he only threw for 2400 more yards, more passing TD's with a significantly higher completion percentage.  He also ran for 800 more yards and had 9 more rushing TD's than Wentz over that stretch.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Yeah, he only threw for 2400 more yards, more passing TD's with a significantly higher completion percentage.  He also ran for 800 more yards and had 9 more rushing TD's than Wentz over that stretch.

Don’t forget an offensive line that’s been ranked 23rd, 20th, 23rd and 24th by pff since he became the starter in Houston. Only season the eagles didn’t have at least a top 15 line even with injuries since wentz was here was last season. 

[RememberTheKoy]

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

His 2020 season statically was better than wentz’s mvp season even if wentz played the last 3 games. Wentz would’ve had more ints and more tds and less yards at his pace. 

So give him 2019 and 2018  Feankly i didn’t think wentz played well in 2019 until the last month of the season were he got hot. That was a five game stretch. The other 11 games he wasn’t all that great. He was for a month against arguably the worst competition in the league 4 games against top 5 picking teams and the Cowboys. 

so the eagles have had what 6 seasons of that meanwhile watson has had 3 of those in 3 straight seasons. So what the eagles have accomplished in 6 seasons in over a decade since mcnabb left, he’s half way there lol 

Just so we are realistic watso. has had more passing yards, significantly better completion percentage over those three years, more tds than wentz and the only thing wentz had on him was less Ints. And I’d add watson won a playoff game. 

 

 

Wentz would have had more TDs and and many, many more wins in 2020.

 

I'm just pointing out what for many that did not look at Wentz that favorably in 2018 and 2019 it's ridiculous that you are all now acting like Watson is Mahomes level when really he is Wentz/Dak level.  

 

You know who else throws for a lot of passing yards over those years?  Dak and Goff.  

[jwill2420]

4 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

It's a ploy to get the last bit of leverage in for a trade.  Or at least, hope to.  

Oh yeah that will show em!🙄

[RememberTheKoy]

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Don’t forget an offensive line that’s been ranked 23rd, 20th, 23rd and 24th by pff since he became the starter in Houston. Only season the eagles didn’t have at least a top 15 line even with injuries since wentz was here was last season. 

 

Eagles will be in great position to keep that offensive line replenished with that massive Watson cap hit and the draft picks it will take to draft him, all the while also having to  massively rehaul the defense.  

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Wentz would have had more TDs and and many, many more wins in 2020.

 

I'm just pointing out what for many that did not look at Wentz that favorably in 2018 and 2019 it's ridiculous that you are all now acting like Watson is Mahomes level when really he is Wentz/Dak level.  

 

You know who else throws for a lot of passing yards over those years?  Dak and Goff.  

What? Wentz played behind a line just as bad as the Texans this past year and got destroyed and was awful. Go look at the Texans oline this year tunsil was the only player graded in the 70s. Wentz had a bad oline here and was abysmal 

we are really comparing goff to watson? Really? Come on. no offense dallas wasn’t losing games last year before Dak got hurt because of Dak Prescott. Their defense was historically awful before he got hurt. 

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

6 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Eagles will be in great position to keep that offensive line replenished with that massive Watson cap hit and the draft picks it will take to draft him, all the while also having to  massively rehaul the defense.  

I love this bs theory we can’t ever make a good oline or replenish if we have Watson’s cap hit. So what the F were they gonna do if they kept wentz? He was going to have to restructure his contract to replenish that oline and they wouldnt have had the picks they got from the colts to do it and your cap issue. Furthermore i don’t think watson is gonna cost you three 1st. If it’s two even if you gave them yours and Miami first you like still have colts first and all the rest of your picks on 2022 and 2023. If that’s not enough to get some young players and build then we have bigger issues cause that’s enough picks to do so 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Eagles will be in great position to keep that offensive line replenished with that massive Watson cap hit and the draft picks it will take to draft him, all the while also having to  massively rehaul the defense.  

So if Hurts turns out to be good, by the time you are ready to compete, he will have a massive deal on the books so you are in the same cap situation anyways.  You are then counting on Howie to use those picks wisely to replenish the defense and the offensive line.  Based on the fact that from the 2016-2019 drafts there is only 10 of the 26 players he drafted still on the roster, and JJAWful, and Pryor should be gone, and Goedert and Barnett need extensions to be here next year, looking at 8 of 26 still being on the roster next year.  Not seeing a lot of the 2020 draft class being here in two years either.  May as well use the picks on Watson, they are wasted on draft day.

[RememberTheKoy]

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

What? Wentz played behind a line just as bad as the Texans this past year and got destroyed and was awful. Go look at the Texans oline this year tunsil was the only player graded in the 70s. Wentz had a bad oline here and was abysmal 

we are really comparing goff to watson? Really? Come on. no offense dallas wasn’t losing games last year before Dak got hurt because of Dak Prescott. Their defense was historically awful before he got hurt. 

 

Our offensive line is old and injury prone.  How do you see the Eagles being able to replenish that offensive line in the coming years after they dedicate a massive amount of their salary cap to Watson as well as a  huge chunk of draft capital?  All the while the defense still needs to be massively overhauled.  

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Our offensive line is old and injury prone.  How do you see the Eagles being able to replenish that offensive line in the coming years after they dedicate a massive amount of their salary cap to Watson as well as a  huge chunk of draft capital?  All the while the defense still needs to be massively overhauled.  

How would they have done it if they kept Wentz ??  How will they do it if Hurts gets a mega deal after the 2022 season ??  How will they do it with the draft history of Howie Roseman I gave you above ??

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

4 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Our offensive line is old and injury prone.  How do you see the Eagles being able to replenish that offensive line in the coming years after they dedicate a massive amount of their salary cap to Watson as well as a  huge chunk of draft capital?  All the while the defense still needs to be massively overhauled.  

First the cap after 2022 is going up due to the new tv contract. 

second even if i give up our first and Miami first, i still have likely the colts first in 2022. And the rest of my 2022 picks and 2023 picks. If that’s not enough picks to get young talent in  here to build up then we got bigger issues. That’s 14 picks even if you trade two firsts over the next two years. Plus comp picks they are going to get. Plus whatever other trades they make to acquire some picks. 

third they we’re gonna have to do that with wentz if they kept him. So you point is they probably had a plan before wentz was awful last year about how to do that and it didn’t include the colts capital they got. 

[RememberTheKoy]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

So if Hurts turns out to be good, by the time you are ready to compete, he will have a massive deal on the books so you are in the same cap situation anyways.  You are then counting on Howie to use those picks wisely to replenish the defense and the offensive line.  Based on the fact that from the 2016-2019 drafts there is only 10 of the 26 players he drafted still on the roster, and JJAWful, and Pryor should be gone, and Goedert and Barnett need extensions to be here next year, looking at 8 of 26 still being on the roster next year.  Not seeing a lot of the 2020 draft class being here in two years either.  May as well use the picks on Watson, they are wasted on draft day.

 

Hurts won't have a new deal kicking in until the 2024 season.  That gives the Eagles 3 years here to rebuild the defense and the offensive line.  If Hurts isn't good this year then the Eagles aren't going to be good this year.  They will be in position to draft a top QB in the draft and likely have at least a spare 1st round pick to use as well on the defense all the while still working towards fixing the cap situation since their QB would be on a rookie deal.

 

Your logic makes no sense at all.  You have spent all offseason proclaiming how much you hate Howie and how dire the Eagles cap situation is going forward.  So you want Howie to make a move that will make the Eagles cap situation all the harder as well as massively reducing the chances that Howie will have to improve the team through the draft.  Howie is somehow going to do a better job of building a team in a much harder situation of no cap space and limited draft picks?  What?  

[Alphagrand]

18 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Meanwhile just posted watson who’s available whom the texans had to trade multiple first rounders to move up and get. Ditto for mahomes. Add on Herbert, watson, Mahomes, Allen, tannehill, Big Ben were all top 12. Who says you aren’t going to have to trade up to get to those positions to get that qb (meaning giving up draft capital) or be in the slot to get one of those QBs like when they wanted Zach Wilson this year. Then on top of it all still have to hope he develops. So you are willing to hope one falls to you at 20th like rodgers? So because that happened 16 years ago it’s destined to happen again? Bears had to trade multiple first to move to 12 to get fields who may not even wind up being good. So if the eagles are picking 16-17th (which in this division isn’t a stretch) and have to move up to let’s say 8-10 you giving up draft capital on a unproven commodity that bust. 

Or just hit on a middle to late round QBs. as an FYI for every Wilson, cousins and brady there’s about 50 QBs that never get there. so the odds are still not in your favor you get Wilson, brady in the middle rounds. 

I can't even tell what your position is based on this rambling, incoherent post.

HOU traded their 1st round pick in 2018 to flip 25 with 12 to select Watson; it didn't cost "multiple 1st round picks".  The price for the Chiefs was a 3rd round pick (91 overall) and their first in 2018 to move up from #27 to 10; again, not "multiple first round picks" -- a first and a third.  Those two teams made those trades because they felt their roster was in place, other than the QB.  The Eagles are not there.

Do you think the Eagles will be closer to the #25 or #27 draft slot next April, or closer to #10-12?  I've got news for you; if the Eagles are drafting #25 or 27 (with the state of the roster) chances are Hurts will keep the QB job. 

[RememberTheKoy]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

How would they have done it if they kept Wentz ??  How will they do it if Hurts gets a mega deal after the 2022 season ??  How will they do it with the draft history of Howie Roseman I gave you above ??

 

If they kept Wentz then that would have meant that Howie would have been gone as that would have been the only way Wentz was willing to come back.  So yeah I think they would have been in a better spot to rebuild with a new GM with keeping Wentz.  Wentz by the way has a far far smaller contract than Watson.  

Jalen Hurts rookie contract doesn't expire until 2024.  If they draft a QB next year, that QB's contract wouldn't expire until 2025/2026 depending on if they extend him prior to picking up the final year on his deal.  

 

The more draft picks and cap space Howie has the better chance he has of improving the team.  I'm not sure what sort of thought process you have that turning the difficulty settings up with far more limited cap space and draft resources is going to result in Roseman doing better at his job.  

[LeanMeanGM]

22 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Yeah, he only threw for 2400 more yards, more passing TD's with a significantly higher completion percentage.  He also ran for 800 more yards and had 9 more rushing TD's than Wentz over that stretch.

Basically the same

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

2 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

I can't even tell what your position is based on this rambling, incoherent post.

HOU traded their 1st round pick in 2018 to flip 25 with 12 to select Watson; it didn't cost "multiple 1st round picks".  The price for the Chiefs was a 3rd round pick (91 overall) and their first in 2018 to move up from #27 to 10; again, not "multiple first round picks" -- a first and a third.  Those two teams made those trades because they felt their roster was in place, other than the QB.  The Eagles are not there.

Do you think the Eagles will be closer to the #25 or #27 draft slot next April, or closer to #10-12?  I've got news for you; if the Eagles are drafting #25 or 27 (with the state of the roster) chances are Hurts will keep the QB job. 

gonna make this really simple since you counting picks is apparently more difficult than i thought 

texans gave up: 2017 first round pick and 2018 first round pick to move up to 12. That’s still 2 first rounders to move up to 12 to select watson. They had to give up that first along with a future first to move to 12. So 2 firsts for watson. Just cause They got the first to select watson doesnot mean they didn’t give them 2 firsts to get watson. Essentially they gave up 25 and 2018 first to get watson  

chiefs: gave up 27 (first rounder), 3rd in 2017 and 2018 first to get 10. So yes still gave up 2 firsts to get into position to get mahomes. So essentially they gave up their 2017 first round pick and their 2018 first round pick ( and a third) to acquire mahomes. Just cause they got back a first to get in position to get mahomes they still gave the cardinals 2017 and 2018 firsts to do it.

The definition of multiple: "consisting of, including, or involving more than one.” Even if you want to BS it and say they just swapped, they gave up 2 firsts for the ability to draft their guy. Yes it took the Texans 25 and 2018 first to get watson. And it took KC 27 and a 2018 first (third as well) to get mahomes. Hence the definition of multiple 

I think they could easily be picking at 15 to 18 considering the division is awful. And you might not have a quarterback fall to 12, you might have to jump inside the top 7-8 to go get that quarterback which means you’re gonna have to pay similar price the chiefs and Texans did if you want them and teams in the top 10 know you want a QB. Heck it took the bears 20 and 2021 first to go from 20 to 12. It’s possible to Move inside the top 7 to get a QB they want it costs them even more than that and a package like SF gave up

[RememberTheKoy]

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

First the cap after 2022 is going up due to the new tv contract. 

second even if i give up our first and Miami first, i still have likely the colts first in 2022. And the rest of my 2022 picks and 2023 picks. If that’s not enough picks to get young talent in  here to build up then we got bigger issues. That’s 14 picks even if you trade two firsts over the next two years. Plus comp picks they are going to get. Plus whatever other trades they make to acquire some picks. 

third they we’re gonna have to do that with wentz if they kept him. So you point is they probably had a plan before wentz was awful last year about how to do that and it didn’t include the colts capital they got  

 

The 2022 salary cap ceiling has been set at $208.2 M.  Eagles already have $176.7M in cap space for 2022.  That isn't even factoring the $40.4M cap hit for Watson in 2022.  

You think the Eagles would only have to give up 2 first round picks for Watson?  You think they would have to give up less than the Rams did for a 33 year old Stafford?  You think the Eagles are going to get any comp picks worth a damn?  Who exactly?  Zach Ertz going to command a big contract next offseason if he rides the bench on the Eagles this year?  Joe Flacco going to hit it big?  Maddox and Boston Scott going to be big targets for a team?  

 

Wentz has a far smaller contract that Watson.  They are also going to have to give up far more to get Watson in a trade than they received for Wentz so it's not this offsetting difference on if they kept Wentz and rebuilt around him compared to trading for Watson and trying to rebuild around him.   

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Jalen Hurts rookie contract doesn't expire until 2024.

Carson Wentz rookie deal did not expire until after the 2019 season, 2020 if they exercised the 5th year option.  They extended him before the 2019 season.  The Eagles will not wait until the end of the rookie contract if they think he is the guy, and part of that signing bonus will add to his final rookie year cap hit.

[RememberTheKoy]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Carson Wentz rookie deal did not expire until after the 2019 season, 2020 if they exercised the 5th year option.  They extended him before the 2019 season.  The Eagles will not wait until the end of the rookie contract if they think he is the guy, and part of that signing bonus will add to his final rookie year cap hit.

 

Okay?  And it's still a far better option for the building this team over the next few years.  If Jalen Hurts is getting a massive contract by the Eagles after the 2022 season then that means that Jalen Hurts has turned into a really damn good QB over the next two years all the while the Eagles were able to keep and use their loaded draft capital as well as whatever wiggle room of cap space they actually have over the next two seasons to put a much better team around Hurts by the time that new contract is signed.  

[Bwestbrook36]

6 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

The 2022 salary cap ceiling has been set at $208.2 M.  Eagles already have $176.7M in cap space for 2022.  That isn't even factoring the $40.4M cap hit for Watson in 2022.  

You think the Eagles would only have to give up 2 first round picks for Watson?  You think they would have to give up less than the Rams did for a 33 year old Stafford?  You think the Eagles are going to get any comp picks worth a damn?  Who exactly?  Zach Ertz going to command a big contract next offseason if he rides the bench on the Eagles this year?  Joe Flacco going to hit it big?  Maddox and Boston Scott going to be big targets for a team?  

 

Wentz has a far smaller contract that Watson.  They are also going to have to give up far more to get Watson in a trade than they received for Wentz so it's not this offsetting difference on if they kept Wentz and rebuilt around him compared to trading for Watson and trying to rebuild around him.   

I actually agree with RTK, I want no parts of Watson either. For a lot of reasons that I have no intentions of arguing about lol. 

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

15 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

The 2022 salary cap ceiling has been set at $208.2 M.  Eagles already have $176.7M in cap space for 2022.  That isn't even factoring the $40.4M cap hit for Watson in 2022.  

You think the Eagles would only have to give up 2 first round picks for Watson?  You think they would have to give up less than the Rams did for a 33 year old Stafford?  You think the Eagles are going to get any comp picks worth a damn?  Who exactly?  Zach Ertz going to command a big contract next offseason if he rides the bench on the Eagles this year?  Joe Flacco going to hit it big?  Maddox and Boston Scott going to be big targets for a team?  

 

Wentz has a far smaller contract that Watson.  They are also going to have to give up far more to get Watson in a trade than they received for Wentz so it's not this offsetting difference on if they kept Wentz and rebuilt around him compared to trading for Watson and trying to rebuild around him.   

Ok You do realize i said after 2022 right? It says after 2022. Also You do realize they can restructure Deshaun Watson‘s contract so it’s not 40 mill when against the cap in 2022? Like they were gonna do with wentz. They were going to do that with Carson Wentz when it came to that point to do it to get money under the cap. It was happening until he was awful. Also his contract  structured to restructure it so that you can save against the cap So again they would actually have a lesser Number 40 everyone keeps putting out there. It’s ok to restructure his contract at 26 years old especially if he continues playing at the level he has 

I don’t know what they’re gonna have to give up to get Watson. No one does. I’m betting it’s closer to two firsts and another pick like a 3rd. However I do know they’re going to have a lesser market of teams right now that teams have gotten their quarterback. Adam caplan talked about this if you listen to the interview he went into full detail about the market (on 973) . I would also add the legal stuff just cause it’s resolved doesn’t mean teams are just going to completely ignore it and just give the Texans whatever they want. There’s still risk with him. Plus he’s already stated he doesnt want to play there so they don’t exactly have great leverage and he has a no trade clause on top of it all so he can reject if he doesn’t want to go (also in ply for that happening to the eagles)

[RememberTheKoy]

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Ok You do realize i said after 2022 right? It says after 2022. Also You do realize they can restructure Deshaun Watson‘s contract so it’s not 40 mill when against the cap in 2022? Like they were gonna do with wentz. They were going to do that with Carson Wentz when it came to that point to do it to get money under the cap. It was happening until he was awful. Also his contract  structured to restructure it so that you can save against the cap So again they would actually have a lesser Number 40 everyone keeps putting out there. It’s ok to restructure his contract at 26 years old especially if he continues playing at the level he has 

I don’t know what they’re gonna have to give up to get Watson. No one does. I’m betting it’s closer to two firsts and another pick like a 3rd. However I do know they’re going to have a lesser market of teams right now that teams have gotten their quarterback. Adam caplan talked about this if you listen to the interview he went into full detail about the market (on 973) . I would also add the legal stuff just cause it’s resolved doesn’t mean teams are just going to completely ignore it and just give the Texans whatever they want. There’s still risk with him. Plus he’s already stated he doesnt want to play there so they don’t exactly have great leverage and he has a no trade clause on top of it all so he can reject if he doesn’t want to go (also in ply for that happening to the eagles)

 

They are going to restructure his contract for when it actually starts in 2022?  So go back to the tried and true methodology of kicking the can down the road to ruin the cap in future years just to be able to squeeze under the cap for next year.  

It only takes 2 teams to get into a bidding war and right now there are at least 2 teams.  Texans have Watson under contract for awhile, they don't need to rush into a trade especially if he is going to serve some sort of suspension this year.  They can hold onto him if they aren't getting good enough offers and just trade him next offseason when he would be available to play the full year and there would inevitable be even more QB needy teams.  Whoever trades for Watson is going to give up a lot.