Sack that QB Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said: There is though. It's called cap space and the team that you are able to put together. Doesn't even factor in the loss of draft capital that would be involved in a trade for Watson. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/max-qb-sb-ring-facts-data-ryan-mccumber With that logic, you never pay a QB premium money then. It makes it tougher, sure. But putting together a team is always tough. The toughest part being finding a QB of that caliber. They don't grow on trees. If they draft better and do well in free agency they'll be fine. And they're lucky in that their first round surplus likely won't affect future years of their drafts like it does on most years. So not only are they in a perfect position to trade for a QB, but one this good is available which is insanely rare at that age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLC Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sack that QB said: With that logic, you never pay a QB premium money then. It makes it tougher, sure. But putting together a team is always tough. The toughest part being finding a QB of that caliber. They don't grow on trees. If they draft better and do well in free agency they'll be fine. And they're lucky in that their first round surplus likely won't affect future years of their drafts like it does on most years. So not only are they in a perfect position to trade for a QB, but one this good is available which is insanely rare at that age. Mahomes/Brady were each paid as top 12 QBs last year. Garropolo was paid as a top 10 QB the year before. IMO, it's harder to win a SB with an expensive QB, but it's infinitely easier to make the playoffs with one because of the floor. Once you get into the playoffs, anything can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wentz_Era Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Utebird said: I thought mills was pretty good in the red zone as his lack of speed Wasn't a hinderence. The rest of the field though he struggled. Him being thrown into the LCB role was why he struggled. He's a solid #2, not your number one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Eagle Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, VeeMak said: I don’t know the answer to the question, but if you substitute "cap” with "fap”, it makes every post about the cap very entertaining. LOL. Spaffing picks and money for a player is indicative of how little thought has been given to tossing together the roster health and cap position, in the schlong term. I am interested in a serious answer that the Philly media can copy and claim for their own though. How can the Eagles trade for Watson, keep the cap healthy and not gut the roster to do it? And sign FAs to make the team better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheKoy Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, Sack that QB said: With that logic, you never pay a QB premium money then. It makes it tougher, sure. But putting together a team is always tough. The toughest part being finding a QB of that caliber. They don't grow on trees. If they draft better and do well in free agency they'll be fine. And they're lucky in that their first round surplus likely won't affect future years of their drafts like it does on most years. So not only are they in a perfect position to trade for a QB, but one this good is available which is insanely rare at that age. If you have a great QB then yeah you try to keep him and make it work. But when you are a bad team with a defense that is going to be very very bad in the near future since there are no young players worth building around and your cap situation sucks then it makes little to no sense wasting draft resources to aquire what will be the 3rd highest paid QB in 2022 especially when that QB has already shown that despite how well he might play he isn't elevating your team above 4 wins when the defense is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sack that QB Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, RLC said: Mahomes/Brady were each paid as top 12 QBs last year. Garropolo was paid as a top 10 QB the year before. IMO, it's harder to win a SB with an expensive QB, but it's infinitely easier to make the playoffs with one because of the floor. Once you get into the playoffs, anything can happen. And teams that win with QBs on cheaper contracts typically do so with elite QBs before they got paid. Not with mediocre QBs who are cheap because they aren't very good. If building a championship team with an expensive elite QB is hard, then building a championship team with a mediocre cheap QB is even harder. And finding an elite QB may be the hardest thing in all of professional sports. Takes some teams decades to find one of that caliber. And top draft picks guarantee nothing. In back to back drafts, the top 2 picks in each draft are no longer on their drafted teams. Winston, Mariota, Goff, Wentz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 20 minutes ago, Sack that QB said: It makes it tougher, sure. But putting together a team is always tough, especially when the GM sucks on draft weekend FYP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheKoy Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, RLC said: Mahomes/Brady were each paid as top 12 QBs last year. Garropolo was paid as a top 10 QB the year before. IMO, it's harder to win a SB with an expensive QB, but it's infinitely easier to make the playoffs with one because of the floor. Once you get into the playoffs, anything can happen. Mahomes was still on his rookie deal last year. He counted as $5.3M against the cap. Brady $25M against the cap. When Watson's deal kicks in next year he will count as $40.4M against the cap. The Eagles currently have just over $17M available cap space for 2022 and that is without a full roster under contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utebird Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 20 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said: Him being thrown into the LCB role was why he struggled. He's a solid #2, not your number one. And for all his struggles he still was able to be part of a super bowl winning team Mills wasn't a bad fit for Schwartz bend don't break defense as when opposing offenses got in the red zone mills was better than average. I actually agree with the thought process in 2017. The eagles had the least amount of money allocated to CB and I r if the highest allocated to safety. In a league which rules favor passing and scoring.the difference a highly paid CB like Ramsey can have on opposing offenses as opposed to mills is minimal at best Corners are going to get beat every week in every team as the rules dictate, would one rather pay top dollar for ones Corners to get beat all the time or pay minimum and takes ones chances? Eagles rolled the dice that they could get more production out of their safeties that would positively influence the outcome of a game more so than their CBs would. It worked. Safeties are more multiple as they Influence the run game more than a CB and safeties generally are moved around more than a corner who linrs up in the same spot every snap. Jenkins was used all over all It also helps when those 3 or 4 low paid CBs play better than their contracts suggest Mills was a 7th rounder on his rookie contract Darby in his 3rd round rookie contract and robi son who played out of his head was on the vet minimum. Since then Howie hasn't been able to reproduce the same resukts and has changed the formula by giving big money and draft picks for slay while skimping on safety by letting Jenkins walk and replacing him with low wage scrubs. No sure why Howie moved away structurally from what worked in 2017? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheKoy Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, downundermike said: FYP Still interested in how you don't foresee the Eagles having one of the worst defenses in the league within the next few years. No young talent worth a damn, no cap space with Watson and draft licks will be given up for him that could have been sued in what will be a loaded CB draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheKoy Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, Sack that QB said: And teams that win with QBs on cheaper contracts typically do so with elite QBs before they got paid. Not with mediocre QBs who are cheap because they aren't very good. If building a championship team with an expensive elite QB is hard, then building a championship team with a mediocre cheap QB is even harder. And finding an elite QB may be the hardest thing in all of professional sports. Takes some teams decades to find one of that caliber. And top draft picks guarantee nothing. In back to back drafts, the top 2 picks in each draft are no longer on their drafted teams. Winston, Mariota, Goff, Wentz. Which is why the Eagles should try to draft a top QB in next year's draft if Hurts doesn't work out instead of making the brain dead move of trading for Watson which will have us stuck as a mediocre team that lacks the resources to properly build the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said: Still interested in how you don't foresee the Eagles having one of the worst defenses in the league within the next few years. No young talent worth a damn, no cap space with Watson and draft licks will be given up for him that could have been sued in what will be a loaded CB draft. With Watson's diminished value, you trade a 1st next year, a 3rd next year, and a conditional second that could be a first in 2023. You still have two 1sts and a second next year, and unless Howie does more dumb stuff, you shed some vets and have cap room for FA in 2023. This all hinges on Howie making good use of those draft picks. Without that, it does not matter who the QB is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheKoy Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Just now, downundermike said: With Watson's diminished value, you trade a 1st next year, a 3rd next year, and a conditional second that could be a first in 2023. You still have two 1sts and a second next year, and unless Howie does more dumb stuff, you shed some vets and have cap room for FA in 2023. This all hinges on Howie making good use of those draft picks. Without that, it does not matter who the QB is. If Watson's is cleared there will be no diminished value. As long as there are multiple teams interested in trading for him, which there are, then there is no diminished value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said: If Watson's is cleared there will be no diminished value. As long as there are multiple teams interested in trading for him, which there are, then there is no diminished value. What do you think the Texans want, and would any other teams pay that ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sack that QB Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said: Which is why the Eagles should try to draft a top QB in next year's draft if Hurts doesn't work out instead of making the brain dead move of trading for Watson which will have us stuck as a mediocre team that lacks the resources to properly build the roster. It's highly unlikely a QB they draft will be as good as Watson, if they're even good at all. Odds are they'll be not all that special, whichever QB they draft. I don't think that is the smart play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertbirds Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 I would pass on Watson as I feel he is not worth the price in draft picks and cap space. I would rather roll with Hurts - and I am not confident in Hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khani1 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Would the lower two of the 3 first round picks (assuming Carson get us a 1st) and a 3rd the following year get it done for Watson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphagrand Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Top 10 QB in TD passes in 2020, and draft position: Aaron Rodgers 48 TD -- 24th overall Tom Brady 40 TD -- 199th overall Russell Wilson 40 TD -- 45th overall Patrick Mahomes 38 TD -- 10th overall Josh Allen 37 TD -- 7th overall Kirk Cousins 35 TD -- 102nd overall Deshaun Watson 33 TDs -- 12th overall Ryan Tannehill 33 TD -- 8th overall Ben Roethlisberger 33 TDs -- 11th overall Justin Herbert 31 TDs -- 6th overall Top 10 QBs -- not a top 5 draft pick in the bunch. You just don't have to jump up to the top of the draft and give away draft picks anymore to get your QB -- it's a fool's errand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheKoy Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 26 minutes ago, downundermike said: What do you think the Texans want, and would any other teams pay that ?? As much as they can get. You're not going to get a bargain when you have a bidding war. A 33 year old Matthew Stafford who has never won a playoff game was traded for 2 first round picks, a 3rd round pick and a 26 year old 2x pro bowl former #1 overall pick QB who has already played in a Super Bowl. Texans are likely going to push for 3 firsts and will likely get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 22 minutes ago, Sack that QB said: It's highly unlikely a QB they draft will be as good as Watson, if they're even good at all. Odds are they'll be not all that special, whichever QB they draft. I don't think that is the smart play. I go to this, since mcnabb was traded, the eagles have had 4 years where I’d say they had great QB play: 2010 Vick, 2013 foles, 2017 wentz/foles and 2019 wentz (could make the case it wasn’t great until the end of the season). Meanwhile Deshaun watson the last three years has given those type of seasons. And last year he had 4800 yards, 70.2% completion, 33 tds and 7 ints which essentially was wentz mvp season with better completion percentage and would still be more passing yards then wentz was on pace for that season if he didn’t miss games. The eagles have tried to draft and sign QBs for a decade to get a stabilization at QB. They’ve had it for small windows since mcnabb. At 25 watson could be that for a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheKoy Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 31 minutes ago, Sack that QB said: It's highly unlikely a QB they draft will be as good as Watson, if they're even good at all. Odds are they'll be not all that special, whichever QB they draft. I don't think that is the smart play. You're acting like DeShaun Watson is Patrick Mahomes. He's pre-2020 Carson Wentz. Honestly, probably not as good as pre-2020 Carson Wentz. But that is the grouping of QBs that Watson is in. That Wentz/Dak level of QB. He isn't a Mahomes or Rodgers once in a generation QB. Watson would be such a stupid trade for this organization. Maybe if the roster wasn't at the start of what should be a several year rebuild it would make more sense but where the team is right now it makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 A dude with a Koy Detmer avatar is suggesting Watson probably isn’t as good as 2018-2019 Carson Wentz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Alphagrand said: Top 10 QB in TD passes in 2020, and draft position: Aaron Rodgers 48 TD -- 24th overall Tom Brady 40 TD -- 199th overall Russell Wilson 40 TD -- 45th overall Patrick Mahomes 38 TD -- 10th overall Josh Allen 37 TD -- 7th overall Kirk Cousins 35 TD -- 102nd overall Deshaun Watson 33 TDs -- 12th overall Ryan Tannehill 33 TD -- 8th overall Ben Roethlisberger 33 TDs -- 11th overall Justin Herbert 31 TDs -- 6th overall Top 10 QBs -- not a top 5 draft pick in the bunch. You just don't have to jump up to the top of the draft and give away draft picks anymore to get your QB -- it's a fool's errand. Meanwhile just posted watson who’s available whom the texans had to trade multiple first rounders to move up and get. Ditto for mahomes. Add on Herbert, watson, Mahomes, Allen, tannehill, Big Ben were all top 12. Who says you aren’t going to have to trade up to get to those positions to get that qb (meaning giving up draft capital) or be in the slot to get one of those QBs like when they wanted Zach Wilson this year. Then on top of it all still have to hope he develops. So you are willing to hope one falls to you at 20th like rodgers? So because that happened 16 years ago it’s destined to happen again? Bears had to trade multiple first to move to 12 to get fields who may not even wind up being good. So if the eagles are picking 16-17th (which in this division isn’t a stretch) and have to move up to let’s say 8-10 you giving up draft capital on a unproven commodity that bust. Or just hit on a middle to late round QBs. as an FYI for every Wilson, cousins and brady there’s about 50 QBs that never get there. so the odds are still not in your favor you get Wilson, brady in the middle rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberTheKoy Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said: I go to this, since mcnabb was traded, the eagles have had 4 years where I’d say they had great QB play: 2010 Vick, 2013 foles, 2017 wentz/foles and 2019 wentz (could make the case it wasn’t great until the end of the season). Meanwhile Deshaun watson the last three years has given those type of seasons. And last year he had 4800 yards, 70.2% completion, 33 tds and 7 ints which essentially was wentz mvp season with better completion percentage and would still be more passing yards then wentz was on pace for that season if he didn’t miss games. The eagles have tried to draft and sign QBs for a decade to get a stabilization at QB. They’ve had it for small windows since mcnabb. At 25 watson could be that for a decade. The last 3 years Watson has given those type of seasons? 2020 70.2%, 4,823 yards, 33 TD, 7 INT 2019: 67.3%, 3,852 yards, 26 TD,. 12 INT 2018: 68.3%, 4,165 yards, 26 TD and 9 INT. Meanwhile you say the Eagles only got one of those seasons once from Wentz in 2017. What? 2019: 63.9%, 4,039 yards, 27 TD and 7 INT 2018: 69.6%, 3,074 yards, 21 TD and 7 INT 2017: 60.2%, 3,296 yards, 33 TD and 7 INT. He really hasn't been better at all compared to Wentz's stretch from 2017-2019 yet many of the same people who are now clamoring for Watson were down on Wentz after 2017 in those 2018 & 2019 years still pining for Foles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 minute ago, RememberTheKoy said: The last 3 years Watson has given those type of seasons? 2020 70.2%, 4,823 yards, 33 TD, 7 INT 2019: 67.3%, 3,852 yards, 26 TD,. 12 INT 2018: 68.3%, 4,165 yards, 26 TD and 9 INT. Meanwhile you say the Eagles only got one of those seasons once from Wentz in 2017. What? 2019: 63.9%, 4,039 yards, 27 TD and 7 INT 2018: 69.6%, 3,074 yards, 21 TD and 7 INT 2017: 60.2%, 3,296 yards, 33 TD and 7 INT. He really hasn't been better at all compared to Wentz's stretch from 2017-2019 yet many of the same people who are now clamoring for Watson were down on Wentz after 2017 in those 2018 & 2019 years still pining for Foles. 2017 is ancient history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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