EMB Blog: 2021 Training Camp / Preseason

[Sack that QB]

4 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

I think the process ends up taking longer than if they just stick with Hurts and he shows himself as capable or if Hurts doesn't and they draft a top QB on a rookie deal. 

I don't agree with that. You aren't going to be a serious contender unless you have an elite QB even if the rest of the team is built well. It's easier to get the QB taken care of and find out how to build around them than to build a team and try finding a QB good enough.

[MillerTime]

2 minutes ago, dawkdaballhawk said:

"Over the issues". Does that mean other teams didn't offer him what he thought he should get?

Probably. No one is gonna give him a big contract at this point.

[RememberTheKoy]

5 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I don't agree with that. You aren't going to be a serious contender unless you have an elite QB even if the rest of the team is built well. It's easier to get the QB taken care of and find out how to build around them than to build a team and try finding a QB good enough.

 

Isn't the list of QBs who have won Super Bowls while on massive deals very, very short? 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, MillerTime said:

 

Not sure how the Eagles are going to be able to do that.  Once Dickerson signs his contract, and players 52 and 53 count against the cap week 1, the Eagles will be over the cap.

[Utebird]

23 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

If Ertz is motivated he's still an asset to a young QB.  He needs to put the team in front of his contract, which I don't think he did last season.

It was wise of the team to allow him to seek his own trade; if he's seen that the trade market is thin/non-existent then it should change his outlook -- and we may get full effort (+) from a guy in a contract year.

Ok, let's say we get full effort from Ertz in his co tract year, what's that entail?

Srianni and his OC don't have a History of using a lot of 2 TE sets, is whatever Ertz gives the team worth potentially taking snaps away from young get WRs in 3 and 4 WR sets?

As for having him be an asset for a young qb isn't that what goedert is supposed to be???

I think the upside to keeping Ertz is limited at best.

On this offense he's a backup TE making starter money and he doesn't block.

He's a big slot receiver with a big contract who wanted more money and when he didn't get it pouted and now Howie is what keeping him on the roster to spite him.

Even if he's giving Ertz an opportunity to repair his image and opportunities for anew ci tract with another team how much is Ertz going to be able to do that being a back up TE with limited opportunity and stats.

He's not going to have opportunities to put up stats that are going to greatly increase his market value.

Just cut him and move on.

 

[315Eagles]

36 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I thought mills was pretty good in the red zone as his lack of speed Wasn't a hinderence.

The rest of the field though he struggled.

Spot on...

28 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I'm not sure I understand the angst over Steven Nelson and Malik Hooker. If they're good players, why are they still sitting there un-signed on the eve of training camp? It's not like the Eagles are the only team to overlook them, and there's plenty of teams with terrible secondary issues just like us. If they somehow end up here, great, they're probably better than what we have (though that's not a certainty, nor a very high bar to clear) and if they go somewhere else, I wouldn't give it a second thought. 

Maybe they remained unsigned because teams all over the league are dealing with the lower salary cap and dont have the money.

[MillerTime]

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Not sure how the Eagles are going to be able to do that.  Once Dickerson signs his contract, and players 52 and 53 count against the cap week 1, the Eagles will be over the cap.

They either cut or trade Ertz or they trade Cox (saves 16 million this year plus 23 million next year)

[Alphagrand]

2 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Ok, let's say we get full effort from Ertz in his co tract year, what's that entail?

Srianni and his OC don't have a History of using a lot of 2 TE sets, is whatever Ertz gives the team worth potentially taking snaps away from young get WRs in 3 and 4 WR sets?

As for having him be an asset for a young qb isn't that what goedert is supposed to be???

I think the upside to keeping Ertz is limited at best.

On this offense he's a backup TE making starter money and he doesn't block.

He's a big slot receiver with a big contract who wanted more money and when he didn't get it poured and now Howie is what keeping him on the roster to spite him.

Even if he's giving Ertz an opportunity to repair his image and opportunities for anew ci tract with another team how much is Ertz going to be able to do that being a back up TE with limited opportunity and stats.

He's not going to have opportunities to put up stats that are going to greatly increase his market value.

Just cut him and move on.

 

I don't think the Eagles have the talent in place for 3 and 4 WR sets.

Not necessarily disagreeing, but where does Reagor fit?  I prefer him in the slot, but then you have Smith outside with who?  Not sure either Fulgham or JJAW is the answer.

The best options in the passing game might still be Smith, Goedert, Reagor and Ertz.  I don't think Ward offers much, so if the other alternative is Smith and Reagor outside, Goedert at TE and Ward in the slot .... I don't think that's as good as the first option.  Essentially, would you rather have Ertz as the de facto slot, or Ward?

[Utebird]

1 hour ago, MillerTime said:

They either cut or trade Ertz or they trade Cox (saves 16 million this year plus 23 million next year)

Should have traded both last year.

Cox is still good but in decline and no where worth what he's being paid.

Ertz should have been traded last year.

Keeping cox this year puts the eagles next year in the same situation they are this year with Ertz.

[MillerTime]

Just now, Utebird said:

Should have traded both lady year.

Cox is still good but in decline and no where worth what he's being paid.

Ertz should have been traded last year.

Keeping cox this year puts the eagles next year in the same situation they are this year with Ertz.

Agreed, i think you take what you can get for him and really help the cap situation next year.

[LeanMeanGM]

12 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I don't think the Eagles have the talent in place for 3 and 4 WR sets.

Not necessarily disagreeing, but where does Reagor fit?  I prefer him in the slot, but then you have Smith outside with who?  Not sure either Fulgham or JJAW is the answer.

The best options in the passing game might still be Smith, Goedert, Reagor and Ertz.  I don't think Ward offers much, so if the other alternative is Smith and Reagor outside, Goedert at TE and Ward in the slot .... I don't think that's as good as the first option.  Essentially, would you rather have Ertz as the de facto slot, or Ward?

It's going to be a long season if 2 of the best passing options are TE's that Hurts doesn't want to throw to

[Utebird]

5 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I don't think the Eagles have the talent in place for 3 and 4 WR sets.

Not necessarily disagreeing, but where does Reagor fit?  I prefer him in the slot, but then you have Smith outside with who?  Not sure either Fulgham or JJAW is the answer.

The best options in the passing game might still be Smith, Goedert, Reagor and Ertz.  I don't think Ward offers much, so if the other alternative is Smith and Reagor outside, Goedert at TE and Ward in the slot .... I don't think that's as good as the first option.  Essentially, would you rather have Ertz as the de facto slot, or Ward?

It's not a good option when Ertz doesn't block.

Teams can stay in nickel and cover him with a corner in 2 TE sets because the D knows the eagles can't effectively run out of 2 TE sets 

The obvious adjustment is to put in a 3rd WR who threatens the nickel back at multiple levels  in the passing game more so than Ertz does 

Ertz is basically a big slot WR who is no longer a mismatch piece.

If he could block even a little he might have some value a blocking/ outlet type much like Celek was later in his career, yet Ertz has had plenty of seasons to show he can't block 

Keeping him on 2 TE sets just makes the offense slower and weaker at the point 

Howie and Co can spin it however they want and yada yada and in the end the reasons to cut bait with Ertz far out way the reasons to keep him 

[LeanMeanGM]

In regards to Ertz being on the team, I'll see it when I believe it. In my opinion, it's not a coincidence that a week before players report its now out there that he will be coming into camp day 1. This is he and his agent calling Howies bluff. 

[Utebird]

7 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

In regards to Ertz being on the team, I'll see it when I believe it. In my opinion, it's not a coincidence that a week before players report its now out there that he will be coming into camp day 1. This is he and his agent calling Howies bluff. 

Yeah it's definitely curious timing.

I'm sure Ertz doesn't want to get fined but the thought that Ertz is going to come to camp all motivated as the 2nd TE paid as a top 5 because he wants to increase his market value has weak legs.

Even if he shows up motivated how many opportunities is he going to get to increase his value?

Is Howie going to force the coaches to play a lot of 2 TE sets to increase Ertz value 

If that's Howie's goal he needs to be cut as well.

The GMs job is to construct a roster to win games not dictate who plays to placate his own ego 

[LeanMeanGM]

Just now, Utebird said:

Yeah it's definitely curious timing.

I'm sure Ertz doesn't want to get fined but the thought that Ertz is going to come to camp all motivated as the 2nd TE paid as a top 5 because he wants to increase his market value has weak legs.

Even if he shows up motivated how many opportunities is he going to get to increase his value?

Is Howie going to force the coaches to play a lot of 2 TE sets to increase Ertz value 

If that's Howie's goal he needs to be cut as well.

The GMs job is to construct a roster to win games dictate who plays to placate his own ego 

I think he's just showing up to force Howies hand to cut him. Everyone knows Eagles need him off the books and if he gets injured in TC Howie is screwed. I wouldn't be surprised if they told him he can stay home and they wont fine him and this was his response. You also don't have Wentz anonymously saying "Ertz is tired of all the BS in Philly" one week to "oh, he's just magically over his issues now" even though nothing happened and he wasn't paid any extra incentive. 

[Utebird]

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I think he's just showing up to force Howies hand to cut him. Everyone knows Eagles need him off the books and if he gets injured in TC Howie is screwed. I wouldn't be surprised if they told him he can stay home and they wont fine him and this was his response. You also don't have Wentz anonymously saying "Ertz is tired of all the BS in Philly" one week to "oh, he's just magically over his issues now" even though nothing happened and he wasn't paid any extra incentive. 

Yup the worst case scenario is Ertz shows up and gets hurt and the eagles are on the books for his remaining salary 

Just another reason to not let him get anywhere near the field 

If I were Ertz I'd be sick of all Howie's BS as well.

Ertz is a super bowl hero and will go down as an all time eagle legend yet Howie is trying to do him dirty to try and win some stupid game off-season game.

Just do what's right and cut the man and let him go to another team.

Howie is such an effin baby little Diva and Lurie is just as culpable for enabling the idiocy.

[RLC]

Deshaun Watson won't be traded until the legal issues are resolved, so it will be at the end of 2021/2022 off-season.  His cap hits are as follows ($0 in guarantees)

2022: 35m
2023: 20m
2024: 32m
2024: 32m

That's an average of roughly 30M/Y, less than Mahomes, Prescott, Wilson, Goff, Rodgers, Cousins, Ryan...and eventually the upcoming extensions for guys like Josh Allen and potentially Mayfield/Jackson. It's a very friendly contract for the team acquiring Watson.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

1 hour ago, Sack that QB said:

I don't agree with that. You aren't going to be a serious contender unless you have an elite QB even if the rest of the team is built well. It's easier to get the QB taken care of and find out how to build around them than to build a team and try finding a QB good enough.

We are under the assumption that hurts isn’t the guy in all this.

the theory people on here stating we just build up the roster now with draft picks to get younger and then when it’s ready we strike for a QB. In theory it sounds amazing to do it that way. It’s in theory the way you’d hope you could accomplish everything.

There’s multiple problems with that. First, the eagles haven’t exactly crushed it in the draft so if you are building on the premise we are just going to be better at something we’ve been poor at. 

Second even if you build up the roster you still need to go get the QB and acquire him. You may not be picking high enough to get the QB you covet and on top of that not have the draft assets to get the QB you love. Add on have to wait for that rookie QB to develop which might take 2 years or longer or might just be a bust.

Add on to the second point,  if you want to trade for a proven QB then there might not be a big market or a player of the caliber you want. Or if there is one once you are at that point, the eagles might not have the assets the other team is asking for in a trade or another team has more ammunition then the eagles do to acquire that QB. Right now the eagles have that ammunition (arguably the best and there is that type of QB) to get that QB that doesn’t mean in 2 years they will or a Qb will be out there that is that caliber or in position draft wise to get him or that drafting of a young QB ever becomes the player you think. We thought wentz was he turned out to not be as great as we imagined. 

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

6 minutes ago, RLC said:

Deshaun Watson won't be traded until the legal issues are resolved, so it will be at the end of 2021/2022 off-season.  His cap hits are as follows ($0 in guarantees)

2022: 35m
2023: 20m
2024: 32m
2024: 32m

That's an average of roughly 30M/Y, less than Mahomes, Prescott, Wilson, Goff, Rodgers, Cousins, Ryan...and eventually the upcoming extensions for guys like Josh Allen and potentially Mayfield/Jackson. It's a very friendly contract for the team acquiring Watson.

If he were to hypothetically get traded this year, the team acquiring would only have a 10.5 mil cap hit. I doubt he’s dealt this year unless this all gets resolved relatively soon. 

 

[eagle45]

1 hour ago, Utebird said:

Ok, let's say we get full effort from Ertz in his co tract year, what's that entail?

Srianni and his OC don't have a History of using a lot of 2 TE sets, is whatever Ertz gives the team worth potentially taking snaps away from young get WRs in 3 and 4 WR sets?

 

 

This right here is more important than the entire Ertz discussion 100x over.  

We aren't getting anything in return, and Ertz doesnt have any meaningful productivity left that will contribute to this team during a window of contention.

I gladly admit that I know nothing about Sirianni.  I absolutely believe that Lowie hired him to be an energetic puppet, but that doesn't mean that's what he is (if we've learned anything about Howie, it's that his selections aren't always spot on).  He could be Vince Lombardi, AR, Doug Pederson, or Rich Kotite.  (Scratch off Belichick and Chip Kelly, because he just doesn't have that kind of disposition).  

I heard from many that Siri was a big fan of channeling his passing game through the TE...and 2 TE's if possible.  Then I heard that he's more about multiple WRs (which is consistent with what every other team in the NFL does).  This will be important to see what goes down.  The 2 TE fad was a disaster here....I look forward to that going away.  As you hinted, I don't want to hear BS about "maximizing the personnel we have, playing to their strengths, and using 2 TE sets with Ertz and Goedert together because they are our 2 best receivers."  That's an express ticket to nowhere for this offense.

[Connecticut Eagle]

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

If he were to hypothetically get traded this year, the team acquiring would only have a 10.5 mil cap hit. I doubt he’s dealt this year unless this all gets resolved relatively soon. 

 

This.  I believe the cap hits listed include signing bonus proration.  The acquiring team would avoid those.

[RLC]

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

If he were to hypothetically get traded this year, the team acquiring would only have a 10.5 mil cap hit. I doubt he’s dealt this year unless this all gets resolved relatively soon. 

For sure. That's why Watson was willing to sit out this year...it's the year in which he was slated to receive the least amount of money.
What would be interesting is if his contract tolled due to the suspension, but if he only gets say 8 games, it wouldn't.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

This.  I believe the cap hits listed include signing bonus proration.  The acquiring team would avoid those.

Nope, those are base salaries.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Nope, those are base salaries.

His contract was set up so they could restructure it and lower his cap starting in 2022. They probably believed at 26 he’s golden for the next 3-4 years at minimum so they could structure it the way they did.  

[eagle45]

I've heard debate about what tier QB Watson is, comments on his contract, comments on his legal situation, and comments on when the trade would happen...but what about what he'd actually cost?

The Texans are going to want our 1, Miami's 1, and the Wentz pick.  The level of interest from other teams is what will determine if it's a competition to put up the best package or if Howie can cut down on that.