Where do you stand on QB for 2022

[Guest]

A quick summary for all the folks who want to put a good defense around a below average / average QB and try to win.

 

The #1 scoring defense in the NFL, had their top 5 in the league QB go 27 of 37 for 329 yards and 4 TD's, 90.3 QBR and 136 QB rating, had no turnovers, allowed 2 sacks, converted 6 of 14 third downs and 4 of 4 4th downs, had 422 yards of total offense and scored 36 points, AND LOST.

[time2rock]

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

A quick summary for all the folks who want to put a good defense around a below average / average QB and try to win.

 

The #1 scoring defense in the NFL, had their top 5 in the league QB go 27 of 37 for 329 yards and 4 TD's, 90.3 QBR and 136 QB rating, had no turnovers, allowed 2 sacks, converted 6 of 14 third downs and 4 of 4 4th downs, had 422 yards of total offense and scored 36 points, AND LOST.

So you’re saying a top QB doesn’t make a difference.  

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, time2rock said:

So you’re saying a top QB doesn’t make a difference.  

 

Nope.  Having an elite defense does not make a difference.  Imagine if Hurts was the Bills QB, they would have lost by 30.

[Cheesteakitis]

trade for Jimmy Garoppolo

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

A quick summary for all the folks who want to put a good defense around a below average / average QB and try to win.

 

The #1 scoring defense in the NFL, had their top 5 in the league QB go 27 of 37 for 329 yards and 4 TD's, 90.3 QBR and 136 QB rating, had no turnovers, allowed 2 sacks, converted 6 of 14 third downs and 4 of 4 4th downs, had 422 yards of total offense and scored 36 points, AND LOST.

Lurie wants an explosive offense, big passing plays and great QB play.  He's talked for almost a decade about the importance of the QB position.  

Lurie's watching these playoffs and evaluating the QB play.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Lurie wants an explosive offense, big passing plays and great QB play.  He's talked for almost a decade about the importance of the QB position.  

Lurie's watching these playoffs and evaluating the QB play.

Yep, it is in my signature.

[ManchesterEagle]

3 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

If you can't understand he is the exception and nowhere near the rule, then you read the room like Hurts reads a defense.

 

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Bad example though bud. He benefits from a fantastic scheming HC, a creative run game and a top defense.

I was being tongue in cheek with Jimmy G. Of course it's better to have Mahomes/Allen etc.

However what people need to understand (and not accusing either of you of this), is that a QB needs a really good team around him. Brady's won 7 Super Bowls, partly because he's the GOAT, but also partly because he's had some really good teams around him, which he's often helped with team friendly deals.

Apart from that, there have been a lot of journeymen QBs who have won them and elite QBs over the past 10-15 years like Rodgers, Wilson, Brees etc only have 1.

Eagles should be doing a lot of homework on all the QBs in this draft, but they should not trade up for or reach for one in the first out of desperation, especially if they are of the view that the best case scenario is Andy Dalton/Derek Carr. And no to the big free agents - would cost too much. 

[LacesOut]

And Lurie will continue to chase and try to find his 'Unicorn' QB.

Great QBs lost this weekend. An entire good team is needed. Not a team that is super special at one position.

/I am not saying anything new here...

//Got nothing else...

[ManchesterEagle]

57 minutes ago, time2rock said:

So you’re saying a top QB doesn’t make a difference.  

 

 

55 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Nope.  Having an elite defense does not make a difference.  Imagine if Hurts was the Bills QB, they would have lost by 30.

Yes it does, often an elite defense makes the difference.

Examples. Super Bowl last year - the Bucs D destroyed Mahomes. Then the Rams destroyed Brady this year (he only made a game of it because the Rams kept fumbling in the 4th quarter). Seahawks v Manning after an MVP season. Broncos v Carolina with what was then a crappy Peyton Manning.

Of course it makes a difference.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

44 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

However what people need to understand (and not accusing either of you of this), is that a QB needs a really good team around him. Brady's won 7 Super Bowls, partly because he's the GOAT, but also partly because he's had some really good teams around him, which he's often helped with team friendly deals.

Oh I agree with you and this is why the Eagles need to build their roster. Yes that includes getting a really good QB but they need to build the defense and they'll need to build other areas too. The GB roster is a very good roster, in fact every team that played this weekend has a very good roster and they have play makers on both sides of the ball. Having a good QB is key but so are many other factors.

[Green_Guinness]

So for my vote I chose stay put and draft a QB:  Carson Strong.  Though if he shows well at the Senior Bowl and Combine then he'd probably go before #15.  Some have posted that in recent mocks he's been moving up the boards.

This would be my preference, but I admit I don't know what the best course of action is for this team since the roster has too much aging and mediocre talent and not enough young quality talent.  I think either way, whether you trade for Watson (not Wilson or Rodgers, both too old) or draft a QB that it's going to take at least 3 full seasons before we're competitive enough to make deep playoff runs.  With a Watson trade you'll be giving up high end draft capital and taking on a big cap hit.  That makes it harder for us to add (young) quality talent both via the draft and FA.  So while Watson would make our O much better our D will still be Swiss cheese with slow DBs, JAG LBs, and an aging underachieving DL.  We'd have to wait for bad contracts to come off the books and the cap to go up to be able to sign top/good FAs, otherwise we're signing more JAGs.  And lack of top end draft picks means waiting another season for a shot at young top tier talent. 

Drafting a QB, and I don't think any of them are ready to play in their rookie season and need at least 1 season of sitting and learning, and that's probably going to take a few seasons before that QB reaches their potential and plays like a upper end tier QB.  But, you'd still have the resources of high end draft picks and cap space to add young(er) quality talent around him on both sides of the ball.

I think Strong is the most NFL QB ready QB in this class for the following reasons:

1-Cannon of an arm, probably the best arm in the class.

2-According to a poster who watched most of his games he calls out the protections every play and has the ability to call audibles and check in/out of plays, which gives him an advantage over the other QBs in the class.

3-Has shown the ability to anticipate throws/routes and throw receivers open on a consistent basis even downfield.

Yes, the knock on him is his knee or that he's a statue standing back there.  Someone posted a video of a Zoom interview he did which he stated that his previous knee surgeries they just tried patching up his already existing tissue or just cleaning it out.  The last surgery he got was more typical of the type of surgery players get when they have ACL/knee issues and he got cadaver tissue put in to replace his damaged tissue.  So before his knee didn't have a good chance to heal and now it does.  Plus, he was supposed to wait 10 months before playing, but he would have missed his SR season so he was playing only 6 months after the surgery.  He was somewhat playing on one leg, probably not being able to fully push off and still making NFL level throws.  He wasn't fully healed and still out there playing.  To me that's a leader with balls and determination.  So, yeah, he looked like a stiff statue back there for the most part.  He was a pretty good basketball player in HS so he has enough athletic ability.  Not saying he's going to be able to run around like Mahomes/Allen, but as his knee heals he'll get more mobility back that will help him evade a rushing defender long enough to make a play.

In my ideal scenario Strong falls to us to draft and we use the other two 1st Round picks to draft 2 of:  DE, CB, S, IOL/C (depending on who is there and who the BPAs are).  We sign a FA WR to pair across from Smith making Watkins the #3WR.  We trade Hurts for a 3rd Round pick (hopefully) and roll with Minshew for 2022 and his better passing qualities will help the young skill players develop better.  They groom Strong with film study, have him in the workout room building muscle around his knee and adding flexibility, and work on his mechanics.  In 2023 you'll be able to roll with Strong and have added a fair amount of young(er) talented players on both sides of the ball via draft/FA from both the 2022 (current) and 2023 off-seasons.  Then after a 2024 off-season of more draft picks and 2-3 more good/key FA signings you might be ready to make some noise in 2024.

There has been much discussion all over the site about what's better to have:  an elite QB or an elite D?

I say with how the rules give the O an advantage over the D now that there aren't really any more elite Ds that can dominate and take over a game.  You'll see that here and there, like what SF did to GB this weekend, but it won't be nearly consistent.  The name of the game for today's NFL D is to be opportunistic and create TOs while being stingy in the RZ and holding Os to FGs instead of giving up TDs.  You can't ignore the D side of the ball and need certain types of players to have that opportunistic/stingy D.  We desperately need speed on this D along with players in the back 7 with ball skills.  Right now we have Slay and that's it and by the time we hit our next window of being good enough to compete he'll be gone.  So along with getting a top tier QB we also need to add young speedy players with ball skills to the D.  IMO drafting Strong gives us the best chance to do both at the same time.  Just my opinion.

 

 

[kiwieagle]

Whether they roll with Hurts as the QB in 2022 or not....the biggest question mark that is currently and will continue to face this team is who is the QB that can be the guy over the next decade? 

That question needs to be front and centre and the priority every off-season till they have that guy. Given the position, its more important than addressing the defensive needs or a WR#2 or anything else (which all need to be done as well). But they need to take a longer-term view to the QB question, not force anything and really only pull the trigger when there is someone they really do believe and that opportunity presents itself. I have no idea if they find that guy this off-season or the next or the one after but regardless of Hurts, whenever they think that guy is available - they need to go get him.  

[Guest]

 

[dawkins4prez]

The NFCCG is Stafford v.s. Garroppolo.  Not exactly elite.

[Random Reglar]

18 hours ago, EagleTen said:

This weekend’s Divisional games showed what real Quarterbacks can do!

Win with a 13-10 score?  Win 19-16?

It seems to me that the Eagles defense gave up 17 points in the first 4 drives.  First half.

[Random Reglar]

49 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

Whether they roll with Hurts as the QB in 2022 or not....the biggest question mark that is currently and will continue to face this team is who is the QB that can be the guy over the next decade? 

That question needs to be front and centre and the priority every off-season till they have that guy. Given the position, its more important than addressing the defensive needs or a WR#2 or anything else (which all need to be done as well). But they need to take a longer-term view to the QB question, not force anything and really only pull the trigger when there is someone they really do believe and that opportunity presents itself. I have no idea if they find that guy this off-season or the next or the one after but regardless of Hurts, whenever they think that guy is available - they need to go get him.  

the Eagles won the Super Bowl with the backup.  Getting and paying a QB a massive amount of money over a number of years can screw a team up.

The Eagles have never won a Super Bowl with an expensive "Franchise QB" starting.  No reason to try to get one.

Hurts is doing great for the amount of money he's getting and the Eagles should be sitting tight with him as long as he costs that much. 

[NOTW]

We all love the QB factory comment.  But do you remember when they said they wanted to be a QB University? 

When they had Bradford, signed Chase Daniels then drafted Wentz and hired coaches who were former QBs or QB coaches, Howie said they wanted to be a QB University.  When they drafted Hurts, it was QB Factory - collect assets to trade while you have insurance.

What's next?  A QB Tech Startup?  A QB Corporation?  A QB 5 Star Restaurant?

These guys don't know what they're doing and keep throwing out these dumb phrases and grasping to find a QB.  The real problem is personnel evaluation.  The only position they consistently draft well is Offensive Line and I would argue Howie sticks to the board and listens to Stoutland's influence for those picks.

[opa-opa]

9 hours ago, NOTW said:

Let's face it, the Eagles as a team aren't anywhere near playoff level except at maybe O line.  They barely squeaked into the playoffs beating bad teams, backup QBs and because the NFL added a 7th playoff team.  

The core of the team by now should be built from the last 5-6 drafts.  What has Howie accomplished in those drafts to make this a playoff team?  Every team has a couple of good players, Eagles drafted Goedert and Mailata and a couple other guys who start and are decent players but they lack super stars and big time playmakers everywhere.  With Devonta Smith we'll see how he develops.  In 2-3 years what guys on this roster right now are wowing audiences in the playoffs?

Howie has failed to build through the draft his entire tenure and fans keep thinking "this time Howie just needs to nail this draft."  Quarterback is no different.

They've been searching for a long-term answer at QB ever since McNabb left.  Kolb, Vick, Foles and Bradford never played a full 16 game season with the Eagles.   Vick was here for 5 years but the first year he didn't do much since he was just getting back to NFL shape out of jail.  So really 4 years. 

The best they had was trading up a bunch of draft capital and players with 2 trades to get to #2 to draft Carson Wentz.  Carson was here 5 years, started out looking like the answer then only played 2 full 16 game seasons while regressing, suffering injuries and being traded.

"The QB Factory" isn't producing.    

It's very hard to find that long-term answer at QB, they don't grow on trees.  But it doesn't help when the GM making the personnel decisions has proven to fail.

Maybe they should have drafted Mac Jones. 

[Green_Guinness]

2 hours ago, opa-opa said:

Maybe they should have drafted Mac Jones. 

Jones and NE were a near perfect fit.  We'll see as the seasons go on, but if they keep most of their coaching staff then Jones has chance to keep producing.

 

[Damanick10]

2 hours ago, opa-opa said:

Maybe they should have drafted Mac Jones. 

I would've loved to get Jones but if he came here we wouldn't have Devonta and he would probably struggle his first year with Quez being our best WR lol... Although with this O-line and Goedert he would still probably have some success. I think he would've thrived here in the future tho, too bad we have a QB who can't read a defense instead.

[Procus]

12 hours ago, NOTW said:

Let's face it, the Eagles as a team aren't anywhere near playoff level except at maybe O line.  They barely squeaked into the playoffs beating bad teams, backup QBs and because the NFL added a 7th playoff team.  

The core of the team by now should be built from the last 5-6 drafts.  What has Howie accomplished in those drafts to make this a playoff team?  Every team has a couple of good players, Eagles drafted Goedert and Mailata and a couple other guys who start and are decent players but they lack super stars and big time playmakers everywhere.  With Devonta Smith we'll see how he develops.  In 2-3 years what guys on this roster right now are wowing audiences in the playoffs?

Howie has failed to build through the draft his entire tenure and fans keep thinking "this time Howie just needs to nail this draft."  Quarterback is no different.

They've been searching for a long-term answer at QB ever since McNabb left.  Kolb, Vick, Foles and Bradford never played a full 16 game season with the Eagles.   Vick was here for 5 years but the first year he didn't do much since he was just getting back to NFL shape out of jail.  So really 4 years. 

The best they had was trading up a bunch of draft capital and players with 2 trades to get to #2 to draft Carson Wentz.  Carson was here 5 years, started out looking like the answer then only played 2 full 16 game seasons while regressing, suffering injuries and being traded.

"The QB Factory" isn't producing.    

It's very hard to find that long-term answer at QB, they don't grow on trees.  But it doesn't help when the GM making the personnel decisions has proven to fail.

The QB Factor yielded two firsts, a third and a fourth for Bradford and Wentz.  Not a bad haul.

[NOTW]

2 minutes ago, Procus said:

The QB Factor yielded two firsts, a third and a fourth for Bradford and Wentz.  Not a bad haul.

Yet we don't have a star QB product from "the factory."

[kiwieagle]

30 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Yet we don't have a star QB product from "the factory."

Jalen (for now) 

[Mortimer]

19 hours ago, downundermike said:

A quick summary for all the folks who want to put a good defense around a below average / average QB and try to win.

 

The #1 scoring defense in the NFL, had their top 5 in the league QB go 27 of 37 for 329 yards and 4 TD's, 90.3 QBR and 136 QB rating, had no turnovers, allowed 2 sacks, converted 6 of 14 third downs and 4 of 4 4th downs, had 422 yards of total offense and scored 36 points, AND LOST.

So, the Eagles need the #1 defense and also need a better than top 5 QB to even have a shot?   Should be a snap to cobble all that together.

[ManchesterEagle]

1 hour ago, Mortimer said:

So, the Eagles need the #1 defense and also need a better than top 5 QB to even have a shot?   Should be a snap to cobble all that together.

He’s trying to use one game as a reason for why having a good defense shouldn’t matter and why we should put most of our resources to trying to find a replacement for Hurts as opposed to looking to focus on adding more young talent to a D that is sorely lacking.