12 hours ago, opa-opa said:

I feel bad for Minshew. Outside of Hurts getting injured again I see no opportunity for him to compete for a starting job.

Especially when you are the better QB...

16 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

Ummm..... Minshew 41 tds/ 12ints in 22 starts 

Hurts 22tds/13ints in 19 starts.... I would say hurts is far more likely to lose you a game than minshew.  You needing to use Hurts as a running back, or should I say hurts playing running back to try to cover his deficiencies will find him on the bench through play or injury. The fact minshew also has a career 63.6 completion percentage on a much worse team vs. a career 59 completion percentage with Hurts with a better overall team weakens your point of view even further.  I worry that some of you are putting the person over the player some times because when push comes to shove, Hurts is the second best quarterback on this team and when the numbers are there to see, you realize it's not even close. Btw, 26 NFL touchdowns with that many games isn't that impressive, especially since he probably stole 6-8 of those touchdowns from the starting running back who had zero for the year.  The banished one got 28 total touchdowns this year, but nobody including myself thinks he played great. This is a passing league, and this guy isn't a top 25 passer in the league, hell not even number one on his own team. 

Garner Minshew is 8-14 as a starter in his career. 

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

I wouldn't want Watson anyway even if legally cleared, don't want a scumbag like that.  Plus don't want to trade a bunch of picks that should be used to build up the roster.  As for Wilson...

 

Wilson could be lip service to drive up the price.  I have seen stuff like that said and then the player still gets traded.   If we make no move on a QB upgrade this year then I would trade one of the first this year for a first next year 10000%   This gives me the ammo to go up and get a QB if Hurts continues down his same path. 

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Garner Minshew is 8-14 as a starter in his career. 

Missed the much worse team part? Hell the jaguars franchise up to this point has how many winning seasons?? But thanks for not actually reflecting on any point I made lol

On 3/5/2022 at 4:59 PM, BornGreen said:

I did[n']t realize till I read an article that Hurts only tossed 16 tds with 9 ints.  Ugh that’s putrid.  I wanna root for the kid but dude has to be tossing 34 or more TDS a year with the competition that’s out there. 

To be fair you need to include his 10 rushing TDs in his totals, which gives him 26 TDs produced, in 15 games -- Hurts gets rushing TDs that, e.g., Mahomes gets as 1 or 2 yard TD throws.

That's still not great and definitely needs improvement, but it's more in the "mediocre" category than "putrid".  It is on par or better than many other top QBs in their first year as a starter:

• Tom Brady - 19 TDs, 12 INTs
• Peyton Manning - 26 TDs, 28 INTs
• Eli Manning - 25 TDs, 17 INTs
• Drew Brees - 18 TDs, 16 INTs
• Aaron Rodgers - 32 TDs, 13 INTs
• Josh Allen - 18 TDs, 12 INTs

All those TD totals include rushing TDs.  Only Rodgers of that group had more TDs produced than Hurts, and he was in his fourth year in the league on a loaded roster.

Hurts also had only 2 lost fumbles, which is very good considering he led all QBs in rushing attempts.  He had less turnovers than every one of those QBs in their first year as a starter, even when you include his lost fumbles in the totals.

So, yeah, Hurts needs to improve -- like virtually every other QB in NFL history going into their second year as a starter.  We will learn a lot about Hurts this coming season.

 

15 minutes ago, BayAreaLennie said:

To be fair you need to include his 10 rushing TDs in his totals, which gives him 26 TDs produced, in 15 games -- Hurts gets rushing TDs that, e.g., Mahomes gets as 1 or 2 yard TD throws.

That's still not great and definitely needs improvement, but it's more in the "mediocre" category than "putrid".  It is on par or better than many other top QBs in their first year as a starter:

• Tom Brady - 19 TDs, 12 INTs
• Peyton Manning - 26 TDs, 28 INTs
• Eli Manning - 25 TDs, 17 INTs
• Drew Brees - 18 TDs, 16 INTs
• Aaron Rodgers - 32 TDs, 13 INTs
• Josh Allen - 18 TDs, 12 INTs

All those TD totals include rushing TDs.  Only Rodgers of that group had more TDs produced than Hurts, and he was in his fourth year in the league on a loaded roster.

Hurts also had only 2 lost fumbles, which is very good considering he led all QBs in rushing attempts.  He had less turnovers than every one of those QBs in their first year as a starter, even when you include his lost fumbles in the totals.

So, yeah, Hurts needs to improve -- like virtually every other QB in NFL history going into their second year as a starter.  We will learn a lot about Hurts this coming season.

 

You are completely ignoring the fact that they all began in a different era of the NFL. His rushing touchdowns are more of a negative in development, not a positive. They developed the game plan away from his arm for a reason. He had 7 tds to 7 ints in the last 9 games so he regressed the second half of the season. 16tds ties him with Davis Mills and Mills did it in less games and with a much higher completion percentage. He didn't play well, and I can respect optimism, but this fan base seriously watches far less football around the league than they should because they seem stuck in old eras of the league.

1 hour ago, phil77 said:

Wilson could be lip service to drive up the price.  I have seen stuff like that said and then the player still gets traded.   If we make no move on a QB upgrade this year then I would trade one of the first this year for a first next year 10000%   This gives me the ammo to go up and get a QB if Hurts continues down his same path. 

It could be...but if they offered "multiple" firsts and that's not enough, I definitely don't want the Eagles doing it.  Use the draft capital they have this year to build the roster, and trade one of those 1sts back for a 2023 1st as you said, to have ammo for a QB next year.  Seems they are going with Hurts this year anyway unless something crazy happens.

1 hour ago, Shalodeep said:

Missed the much worse team part? Hell the jaguars franchise up to this point has how many winning seasons?? But thanks for not actually reflecting on any point I made lol

My goodness if this guy was the all pro elite guy you all seem to ASSume he is then he doesn’t get drafted late, traded for a late round pick, and would have never been traded to begin with. But hey I’m sure he comes to Philly and win 12 games, because he beat one of the worst defenses in football with less than 300 passing yards. 

48 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

My goodness if this guy was the all pro elite guy you all seem to ASSume he is then he doesn’t get drafted late, traded for a late round pick, and would have never been traded to begin with. But hey I’m sure he comes to Philly and win 12 games, because he beat one of the worst defenses in football with less than 300 passing yards. 

Or the fact that while hurt, they ended up with the first overall pick and Trevor Lawrence was going to start no matter what lol I'm not saying Minshew is the answer, but as a QB, he is superior to Hurts. 

49 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

My goodness if this guy was the all pro elite guy you all seem to ASSume he is then he doesn’t get drafted late, traded for a late round pick, and would have never been traded to begin with. But hey I’m sure he comes to Philly and win 12 games, because he beat one of the worst defenses in football with less than 300 passing yards. 

Also they shut down passing because he had such a big lead and ran out the clock 

11 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

You are completely ignoring the fact that they all began in a different era of the NFL. His rushing touchdowns are more of a negative in development, not a positive. They developed the game plan away from his arm for a reason. He had 7 tds to 7 ints in the last 9 games so he regressed the second half of the season. 16tds ties him with Davis Mills and Mills did it in less games and with a much higher completion percentage. He didn't play well, and I can respect optimism, but this fan base seriously watches far less football around the league than they should because they seem stuck in old eras of the league.

I didn't ignore anything.  If you want to see how he compares with Hall of Fame type QBs you have to use Hall of Fame types.  It's not like I compared him to Troy Aikman or Terry Bradshaw, who definitely were of a different era -- every one I cited was either active this year or in the past few seasons.  I also threw in Josh Allen, primarily because he is a direct contemporary (both temporally and in terms of being a running threat).

We will have to agree to disagree on whether scoring rushing TDs (or leading the league's QBs in rushing with 784 yards and a 5.6 YPA) is a negative for a young QB, compared to a guy like Davis Mills, who did nothing with his legs.  Your 16 TDs vs 16 TDs comparison to Mills ignores that Hurts produced 10 rushing TDs against 0 for Mills, so Hurts produced 26 TDs in 15 games to Mills 16 TDs in 13 games, with less INTs, a higher YPA (7.3 vs 6.8), and a much better record.  And in the last 9 games you mentioned, Hurts also scored 5 rushing TDs, for 12 TDs produced against 7 INTs.  Again, not great, needs improvement, but not fairly called "putrid" either.

I have the Sunday Ticket and watch a LOT of football around the league.  Not stuck in any era.

Let me be clear:  I am not sold on Jalen Hurts as the answer at QB, and you can find more than a few posts of mine on these boards saying so.  I saw some good things and some bad things out of Hurts in 2021, and definitely have doubts that the bad things (primarily decision-making) can and will get fixed.  If I had to guess, I would say he is not the answer at QB.  So I am hardly a pie-eyed optimist.  But I am not writing him off either, like so many I see here, based on one reasonably decent season as an NFL starter with his 4th different coaching staff and system in the last 4 years.  That is just too Negadelphian for my taste.

4 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Or the fact that while hurt, they ended up with the first overall pick and Trevor Lawrence was going to start no matter what lol I'm not saying Minshew is the answer, but as a QB, he is superior to Hurts. 

Also they shut down passing because he had such a big lead and ran out the clock 

Sam Bradford is a better passer than Hurts, but he sucks as a winner. Winning football games is more important than how good or bad a guy looks doing it. Minshew doesn’t win. 

15 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Sam Bradford is a better passer than Hurts, but he sucks as a winner. Winning football games is more important than how good or bad a guy looks doing it. Minshew doesn’t win. 

I say if minshew started, he would have had 11 wins and with much better numbers than hurts as a QB say 26-28 passing tds, 6-8 ints, 3800 passing yards with 65% completion numbers because Nick wouldn't have had to change his entire offense to hide Gardner the way he did Jalen Hurts. 

6 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Winning football games is more important than how good or bad a guy looks doing it. Minshew doesn’t win. 

I agree with you that winning is a knack, but it does not seem at all clear to me that Minshew does not have it.  Sure, he went only 7-13 with the Jaguars, but they were 0-12 in the games he did not play.  He finished 5th in Heisman voting in 2018, leading Washington State to an 11-2 record with a bowl win (they dropped to 6-7 the folllowing year without him), and also led his high school team to a Mississippi state championship his senior year.  Minshew might well be a winner, maybe he just has not had a genuine chance to show it.

 

5 minutes ago, BayAreaLennie said:

I agree with you that winning is a knack, but it does not seem at all clear to me that Minshew does not have it.  Sure, he went only 7-13 with the Jaguars, but they were 0-12 in the games he did not play.  He finished 5th in Heisman voting in 2018, leading Washington State to an 11-2 record with a bowl win (they dropped to 6-7 the folllowing year without him), and also led his high school team to a Mississippi state championship his senior year.  Minshew might well be a winner, maybe he just has not had a genuine chance to show it.

 

I'll give you respect sir. Didn't know about the high school part, but definitely agree about the winning element as well. They have won differently at this point, but Jalen has had far more loaded teams up to this point. I think on a level playing field where one wasn't drafted by the team in the second round vs a trade off from another organization, I believe Minshew wins no problem. Hurts really needs to develop his game this year, or he will be the running version of Alex Smith. Wins, but nothing once playoffs arrives. 

43 minutes ago, BayAreaLennie said:

I didn't ignore anything.  If you want to see how he compares with Hall of Fame type QBs you have to use Hall of Fame types.  It's not like I compared him to Troy Aikman or Terry Bradshaw, who definitely were of a different era -- every one I cited was either active this year or in the past few seasons.  I also threw in Josh Allen, primarily because he is a direct contemporary (both temporally and in terms of being a running threat).

We will have to agree to disagree on whether scoring rushing TDs (or leading the league's QBs in rushing with 784 yards and a 5.6 YPA) is a negative for a young QB, compared to a guy like Davis Mills, who did nothing with his legs.  Your 16 TDs vs 16 TDs comparison to Mills ignores that Hurts produced 10 rushing TDs against 0 for Mills, so Hurts produced 26 TDs in 15 games to Mills 16 TDs in 13 games, with less INTs, a higher YPA (7.3 vs 6.8), and a much better record.  And in the last 9 games you mentioned, Hurts also scored 5 rushing TDs, for 12 TDs produced against 7 INTs.  Again, not great, needs improvement, but not fairly called "putrid" either.

I have the Sunday Ticket and watch a LOT of football around the league.  Not stuck in any era.

Let me be clear:  I am not sold on Jalen Hurts as the answer at QB, and you can find more than a few posts of mine on these boards saying so.  I saw some good things and some bad things out of Hurts in 2021, and definitely have doubts that the bad things (primarily decision-making) can and will get fixed.  If I had to guess, I would say he is not the answer at QB.  So I am hardly a pie-eyed optimist.  But I am not writing him off either, like so many I see here, based on one reasonably decent season as an NFL starter with his 4th different coaching staff and system in the last 4 years.  That is just too Negadelphian for my taste.

I respect optimism dashed in with reality, and I can say that many on here is very wait and see with him, but strength of schedule dragged us into the playoffs (plus the bogus ass 7th seed which I hope goes away cause.... awful). If the team came out and said "Open competition" I would have a little more hope going into next year because the same weaknesses Jalen had in college followed him into the NFL... Here's to hoping the kids insane work ethic pays off this year. I love the man as a person, but I would take **** who can ball out any day versus the "hopefully one day it works out cause I like the guy" player any day.

11 minutes ago, BayAreaLennie said:

I agree with you that winning is a knack, but it does not seem at all clear to me that Minshew does not have it.  Sure, he went only 7-13 with the Jaguars, but they were 0-12 in the games he did not play.  He finished 5th in Heisman voting in 2018, leading Washington State to an 11-2 record with a bowl win (they dropped to 6-7 the folllowing year without him), and also led his high school team to a Mississippi state championship his senior year.  Minshew might well be a winner, maybe he just has not had a genuine chance to show it.

 

Hurts was a Heisman runner up too, so that doesn’t really account for much. The bottom line is despite so many teams in this league being completely QB hungry only the Eagles were willing to trade for him and why wouldn’t they if he were so good? Look around the league. At least half of them could use an upgrade at the position and not only that he had an entirely favorable contract for multiple seasons. If he were that good teams would’ve been knocking down the Jags door offering up at least a second. Heck Wentz was trash last season and he went for a conditional 1st. 

 

16 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

I say if minshew started, he would have had 11 wins and with much better numbers than hurts as a QB say 26-28 passing tds, 6-8 ints, 3800 passing yards with 65% completion numbers because Nick wouldn't have had to change his entire offense to hide Gardner the way he did Jalen Hurts. 

Of he has several games like he had against Dallas and the Eagles go nowhere. Considering the past my guess is the latter happens. 

40 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Hurts was a Heisman runner up too, so that doesn’t really account for much. The bottom line is despite so many teams in this league being completely QB hungry only the Eagles were willing to trade for him and why wouldn’t they if he were so good? Look around the league. At least half of them could use an upgrade at the position and not only that he had an entirely favorable contract for multiple seasons. If he were that good teams would’ve been knocking down the Jags door offering up at least a second. Heck Wentz was trash last season and he went for a conditional 1st. 

 

Of he has several games like he had against Dallas and the Eagles go nowhere. Considering the past my guess is the latter happens. 

You mean the game where the starters weren't involved. How out of context do you live man? Like it's your state of being 

52 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

You mean the game where the starters weren't involved. How out of context do you live man? Like it's your state of being 

Me out of context? That’s laughable coming from someone who just wrote Minshew is winning 11 games. 😂🤣😂

1 hour ago, Shalodeep said:

I respect optimism dashed in with reality, and I can say that many on here is very wait and see with him, but strength of schedule dragged us into the playoffs (plus the bogus ass 7th seed which I hope goes away cause.... awful). If the team came out and said "Open competition" I would have a little more hope going into next year because the same weaknesses Jalen had in college followed him into the NFL... Here's to hoping the kids insane work ethic pays off this year. I love the man as a person, but I would take **** who can ball out any day versus the "hopefully one day it works out cause I like the guy" player any day.

I have nothing against open competition, but I don't see what an announcement like that would really accomplish.  Hurts and Minshew are such extraordinarily different players that they are hard to compare, so the winner of that competition would almost certainly be the player who the decision maker believes going into the competition is the better player, and that appears to be Hurts, rightly or wrongly.

For my money, every NFL starter at every position should approach things like there is an open competition for their job at all times anyway, because in reality there kinda is.

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

My goodness if this guy was the all pro elite guy you all seem to ASSume he is then he doesn’t get drafted late, traded for a late round pick, and would have never been traded to begin with. But hey I’m sure he comes to Philly and win 12 games, because he beat one of the worst defenses in football with less than 300 passing yards. 

I don't recall anyone saying anything close to "if this guy was the all pro elite guy you all seem to ASSume he is". If you know of any perhaps you could quote it here.

1 hour ago, eglz1 said:

I don't recall anyone saying anything close to "if this guy was the all pro elite guy you all seem to ASSume he is". If you know of any perhaps you could quote it here.

The man just wrote Minshew is winning 11 games as a starter. 😂🤣😂

19 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

The man just wrote Minshew is winning 11 games as a starter. 😂🤣😂

You're laughing at me when you think Hurts is a better QB than Minshew even though there is literally no stat that proves that lol

I sort of wanna go back and review all of his TD throws and see how many of them actually mattered. Ie not in garbage time. Somehow I barely remember any significant TD throws he made. There was that first one in Atlanta and the rest are just kind of a blur.

11 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

You mean the game where the starters weren't involved. How out of context do you live man? Like it's your state of being 

hurts slurp, slurp, slurp