10 hours ago, The Blackfish said:

 He wasn’t a massive project like the QB’s that just got drafted, but a heavy RPO team like Clemson with the passing offense consisting of "if the defense does this, throw to option A, if they do this instead, throw to option B.”  

This is why I think he will be successful with Doug. Doug has an RPO gameplan that Trevor will feel right at home in. I expect some serious growth with the coaching change. 

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

It is pretty wild how Roseman was able to get a 1st and a 3rd for Wentz on his large contract after the God awful season he had in 2020 and the Browns could only get a conditional 5th for Mayfield on a rookie deal still. 

Yes, they were exactly the same circumstances. Nothing else to consider here. 

12 hours ago, Wentz_Era said:

Correct, Lawrence was a massive project coming out.  I'm not sure how the hype around him didn't cool despite regression every year in college.

Lawrence was almost the opposite of a "project” coming out.  Likely one of the more NFL ready QB’s.  
 

That said - it doesn’t matter how "polished” you are if you don’t have good coaching around you as a rookie QB in the NFL.  I’ll be shocked if he does’t improve this year under Pederson. 

15 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Well chances are very likely that Lamar ends his career with at least the same amount of Super Bowl wins if not more.  He's a far superior QB and just a flatout winner.  

I would take that bet, the next run first QB to win a Super Bowl will be the first.  To bad you have anyone who challenges you on your hot takes on ignore.

9 hours ago, Wentz_Era said:

Disagree, he had terrible footwork, a loopy motion, spotty accuracy and held on to the ball for far too long.  All of which got worse over his years at Clemson.  He was anointed the next big thing coming out of high school.  He lived up to the frosh hype but never took the next step, and I think took steps back every year.

Minshew got traded super early in the process as well.  I hardly think it hurt him.

Lawrence is a project with no guarantees that he will develop.  All of what you point out is an accurate assessment of what many draft projections also had to say about him. That said, most QBs moving from the college game are projections.  Lawrence’s tools and experience suggest that he projects towards success but the NFL history is littered with QBs projects like him that failed.  Now part of the reason he projects well ties to his success in college.  Part of the reason that there are real concerns about that projection is his regression and spotty accuracy. 
 

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I would take that bet, the next run first QB to win a Super Bowl will be the first.  To bad you have anyone who challenges you on your hot takes on ignore.

What sucks is if there was a running QB I would bet on to win one would be him, but the style just gets stomped out in the playoffs every time and his playoff record shows it. He has enough arm talent to just do it in the air. Hopefully he gets there, but it definitely won't be done with his legs

22 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Yes, they were exactly the same circumstances. Nothing else to consider here. 

 

What are circumstances that make the return that wildly different?  Some of you guys are completely incapable of discussion and can seemingly only be complete Fing a-holes. 

13 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

What are circumstances that make the return that wildly different?  Some of you guys are completely incapable of discussion and can seemingly only be complete Fing a-holes. 

The Eagles didn't have a gun to their head when they moved Wentz, at least not in the public eye. They traded Wentz in February, just after the season had finished (the Super Bowl being end of year), and the draft was still 2 months out and FA hadn't even started. From what I remember we had hired NS, who we thought had signed on with the idea of continuing with Wentz.

Mayfield's divorce has been public and acrimonious. It's been well known for a long time he wanted out, and with the signing of Watson, there was no chance Mayfield returned to the Browns this year.

So what's the difference? Leverage. The Eagles had leverage, the Browns had none. 

5 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

You have this twisted idea of what a qb is and what a good decision is. 

Having 1 read(or some times no reads with Lamar) and then tucking and running isnt a good decision. 

And, on top of that if you ever watched Lamar he cant read a defense EITHER. 

AS a QB, Lamar Jackson blows. As a regular season hero playing against sub par teams he pads stats. Great...if your into that

Lamar, like ALL running QBs, will begin to break down. And when he does, and loses his most valuable asset (his legs), he'll be a below average QB. We've seen it play out so many times before, and it's why so many of us are against Hurts, because we know how the story ends (No super bowls or much post season success, and a broken down shell of a player who you pay far too much money to). 

1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Right so there is no need to remove the elements from the game.  I don't think indoor stadiums should be allowed in the league at all. If everyteam had an outdoor stadium it would open it up to each team having their own unique climate expierence. I think that's far better for football than turning it into this artificial indoor experience. 

It's okay for football to be tough at times.  It's okay for it to be a hard fought slugfest where both teams are trying to conquer the elements.  Not everything the NFL does should be to turn the league into arena football. 

 

I went to Green Bay when Sanchez was QB and we got blown out but it was in the cold, it had been snowing in the lead up to the game and it was just an amazing expierence overall. I'd love to go back there for a game but it will have to be when it is in November or later, I wouldn't even bother with a September game and it'd be an absolute tragedy if they ever built an indoor stadium. 

 

 

And that Eagles-Lions snow game was one of the most enjoyable regular season viewing experiences on TV.  I wish I was in attendance at that game. 

Like I said, everyone's preferences are different.  You like going to games where it's freezing, raining and several feet of snow.  I don't.

Don't be surprised that as new stadiums are being built over the next several decades that they are indoor, dome or retractable roof.   Nobody cares anymore about "playing in the elements".

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

Lamar, like ALL running QBs, will begin to break down. And when he does, and loses his most valuable asset (his legs), he'll be a below average QB. We've seen it play out so many times before, and it's why so many of us are against Hurts, because we know how the story ends (No super bowls or much post season success, and a broken down shell of a player who you pay far too much money to). 

Precisely.  QBs win titles by being experts at distributing the football, often times aided by coordinators/head coaches who scheme their targets wide open such as Andy, McVay, and going back to Bill Walsh days and further.

The QB should be the conductor, not the musician who defaults to playing solos 

8 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

The Eagles didn't have a gun to their head when they moved Wentz, at least not in the public eye. They traded Wentz in February, just after the season had finished (the Super Bowl being end of year), and the draft was still 2 months out and FA hadn't even started. From what I remember we had hired NS, who we thought had signed on with the idea of continuing with Wentz.

Mayfield's divorce has been public and acrimonious. It's been well known for a long time he wanted out, and with the signing of Watson, there was no chance Mayfield returned to the Browns this year.

So what's the difference? Leverage. The Eagles had leverage, the Browns had none. 

Don't be owning RTK like that,  he will put you on ignore.

10 hours ago, Wentz_Era said:

Disagree, he had terrible footwork, a loopy motion, spotty accuracy and held on to the ball for far too long.  All of which got worse over his years at Clemson.  He was anointed the next big thing coming out of high school.  He lived up to the frosh hype but never took the next step, and I think took steps back every year.

Minshew got traded super early in the process as well.  I hardly think it hurt him.

Almost everything you mentioned really comes down to coaching and if he actually regressed in those areas - who’s fault is that?  I would lean towards coaching. 

23 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

You have this twisted idea of what a qb is and what a good decision is. 

Having 1 read(or some times no reads with Lamar) and then tucking and running isnt a good decision. 

And, on top of that if you ever watched Lamar he cant read a defense EITHER. 

AS a QB, Lamar Jackson blows. As a regular season hero playing against sub par teams he pads stats. Great...if your into that

 

Why are his passing stats so much better than Foles if Lamar as a QB blows?  

Why is his career record against teams with a winning record 13-9 if he is only "padding his stats" against sub-par teams in the regular season?  If we wee to pull this same stat for Foles it certainly wouldn't be a winning record. 

 

21 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Like I said, everyone's preferences are different.  You like going to games where it's freezing, raining and several feet of snow.  I don't.

Don't be surprised that as new stadiums are being built over the next several decades that they are indoor, dome or retractable roof.   Nobody cares anymore about "playing in the elements".

 

 

I think people do care about the game being played in the elements. The billionaire owners that have you as the tax payer build their stadiums though care about being able to use that year round for various events so they can make more money though so that's why outdoor stadiums will be phased out and the NFL will be worse off for it. 

27 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

The Eagles didn't have a gun to their head when they moved Wentz, at least not in the public eye. They traded Wentz in February, just after the season had finished (the Super Bowl being end of year), and the draft was still 2 months out and FA hadn't even started. From what I remember we had hired NS, who we thought had signed on with the idea of continuing with Wentz.

Mayfield's divorce has been public and acrimonious. It's been well known for a long time he wanted out, and with the signing of Watson, there was no chance Mayfield returned to the Browns this year.

So what's the difference? Leverage. The Eagles had leverage, the Browns had none. 

 

It was pretty well known in the lead up to the Wentz trade that he wanted out and was demanding a trade from the Eagles.  All the talk was how the Eagles weren't going to be able to get anything worthwhile for him. 

 

You're doing complete and total revisionist history to act like this Wentz trade came out of nowhere and it wasn't already widely known in the public that Wentz felt the bridge was burnt with the organization and wanted out. 

8 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Why are his passing stats so much better than Foles if Lamar as a QB blows?  

Why is his career record against teams with a winning record 13-9 if he is only "padding his stats" against sub-par teams in the regular season?  If we wee to pull this same stat for Foles it certainly wouldn't be a winning record. 

 

Because he started his other 27 games against sub par teams in the regular season.

3 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

I think people do care about the game being played in the elements. The billionaire owners that have you as the tax payer build their stadiums though care about being able to use that year round for various events so they can make more money though so that's why outdoor stadiums will be phased out and the NFL will be worse off for it. 

Not every stadium will be indoor but probably most will be.  I believe Buffalo is getting a new stadium and it's outdoor. 

10 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Lawrence was almost the opposite of a "project” coming out.  Likely one of the more NFL ready QB’s.  
 

That said - it doesn’t matter how "polished” you are if you don’t have good coaching around you as a rookie QB in the NFL.  I’ll be shocked if he does’t improve this year under Pederson. 

What made him more of an NFL level QB that ran the RPO in college other than the number of games played?  His mechanics didn’t.  Now Meyers didn’t have a QB coach. Pederson hired Mike McCoy. McCoy did get the best out of Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow as a QB coach but never fixed Tebow’s mechanics. Should be interesting to see if he and Pederson can get Lawrence to believe he needs some fixing.  Pederson and Press Taylor failed at that with Wentz. (Of course, the Colts reaction to Wentz suggests that may be more of a Wentz issue than a coach issue.).   But he also faces a new offense in year two and probably two new starters at WR.  That may hamper his progress a bit.

(In contrast, both Watkins and Hurts grew more familiar as the season went on and Quez expanded his route running and Hurts was already familiar with Smith. Hurts is also more familiar with Gainwell and is in his third year with Goedert. I bring this up because the question that started this conversation was who would you rather have a QB this season).

I can't believe I'm about to do this but.... You guys are burying Lamar when he is definitely a top 10-12 QB in the league and has lead the league in passing touchdowns with 36 which would of been best all time in philly followed up by a year with 26 TDS which in Philly history would of been 9th most all time. He does it in the air better than most. Last year was just a crap year for them. I don't defend his running style at all, but he can sling the rock.  Can he win in playoffs? Hasn't proven it so far, but I wouldn't count him out yet

17 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

It was pretty well known in the lead up to the Wentz trade that he wanted out and was demanding a trade from the Eagles.  All the talk was how the Eagles weren't going to be able to get anything worthwhile for him. 

 

You're doing complete and total revisionist history to act like this Wentz trade came out of nowhere and it wasn't already widely known in the public that Wentz felt the bridge was burnt with the organization and wanted out. 

You completely miss the point of leverage. The season just ended, the Eagles could bid the Colts against any other number of teams (whether truthful or not) and claim to have a better offer that the Colts needed to match. 

The Browns were completely backed into a corner, the dust has basically settled as far as QB spots go, so they couldn't create a bidding war for Mayfield.

Howie did a nice job in trading Wentz and getting the compensation he did, but the Browns were in a much different situation. 

5 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

I can't believe I'm about to do this but.... You guys are burying Lamar when he is definitely a top 10-12 QB in the league and has lead the league in passing touchdowns with 36 which would of been best all time in philly followed up by a year with 26 TDS which in Philly history would of been 9th most all time. He does it in the air better than most. Last year was just a crap year for them. I don't defend his running style at all, but he can sling the rock.  Can he win in playoffs? Hasn't proven it so far, but I wouldn't count him out yet

Lamar is a good regular season QB. He sucks in the playoffs, when the intensity and level of competition are at the peak. 

He has 3 TDs to 5 INTs in his 4 playoff games. Is that what you want? 

55 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

He's 1-3 in playoff games and averages 12.8 points a game. Side note, realistically he averages about 8 points a game in the playoffs as most of his points were garbage tiome against the Chargers a couple years back

 

He's 24 years old.  The story of his career is long from written and over.  Stafford was 0-3 in the playoffs until he won the Super Bowl.  Peyton was 3-4 before he won his first Super Bowl.  

Foles, for the record, in the playoffs is:

4-2, 68.1%, with 11 TDs to 5 INTs. 

I'd much rather have BDN in the playoffs than Lamar. 

5 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

You completely miss the point of leverage. The season just ended, the Eagles could bid the Colts against any other number of teams (whether truthful or not) and claim to have a better offer that the Colts needed to match. 

The Browns were completely backed into a corner, the dust has basically settled as far as QB spots go, so they couldn't create a bidding war for Mayfield.

Howie did a nice job in trading Wentz and getting the compensation he did, but the Browns were in a much different situation. 

 

There was no other teams bidding.  Wentz was arguably the worst QB in the lwdgue in 2020 and he was about to start a massive contract he had signed the season before. We're there any reports of any other teams interested in Wentz? I don't remember any at all. He was seen as such a massive negative asset at that time. 

23 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Not every stadium will be indoor but probably most will be.  I believe Buffalo is getting a new stadium and it's outdoor. 

 

It's another retractable roof stadium.