EMB Blog: 2022 OTAs thru Pre-Season

[Iggles_Phan]

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Johnson wasn’t beat. Hurts just ran into pressure 

yup

[TorontoEagle]

4 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Johnson wasn’t beat. Hurts just ran into pressure 

I pressured and beat my Johnson. Does that count for anything?

[Diehardfan]

8 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

But he's an Eagle.  So we need to be patient and support him.  And he gets freaky.  

Screw him

[BigEFly]

28 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's an NFL throw.  If he's incapable of making that throw, then we know that we need to find a new QB.  

 

As to why he ran right... he runs predominantly right.  That's hard wired in to him.      And if the thought he had was to throw it away, then shame on him for not doing so.  It was preseason, and I'd have been less critical of that play if he had just thrown it away.  What's to be gained by the 1 yard he picked up by not throwing it away on 3rd and 5?  

Not really, that’s a John Elway throw.  Most QBs shouldn’t try to throw across their bodies. The window there is just too small.  Now if he had stepped up in the pocket, it wouldn’t have been a cross body throw.  But by the time the receiver is slightly open, he’s moving right and it’s across his body.  BTW, I wonder if there is a bit of a bust on that play because the receivers on the left did get a bit close to each other.  Overall, good blocking by the line but the rest of the play failed.  I am going to chalk this up to a scripted play because in a real game, I would expect the QB to read the defense presnap and change the play.

Not disagreeing at all with you about his decision to fight for yards and not throwing it away.  I agree that the move there is to throw it away.  As I said, I hope Sirianni’s response to hurts in the QB room isn’t the same as to the press.

[Cliftoma]

[Iggles_Phan]

Just now, BigEFly said:

Not really, that’s a John Elway throw.  Most QBs shouldn’t try to throw across their bodies. The window there is just too small.  Now if he had stepped up in the pocket, it wouldn’t have been a cross body throw.  But by the time the receiver is slightly open, he’s moving right and it’s across his body.  BTW, I wonder if there is a bit of a bust on that play because the receivers on the left did get a bit close to each other.  Overall, good blocking by the line but the rest of the play failed.  I am going to chalk this up to a scripted play because in a real game, I would expect the QB to read the defense presnap and change the play.

Not disagreeing at all with you about his decision to fight for yards and not throwing it away.  I agree that the move there is to throw it away.  As I said, I hope Sirianni’s response to hurts in the QB room isn’t the same as to the press

It wouldn't be a throw across his body if he read the defense and had hung in the pocket like an NFL QB.  Yes, the window is small, but it's a 'big' window for an NFL throw.  A 5 yard out to the left is not a throw that should be hard for an NFL QB, even from the 'far' hash, but he was on the 'near' hash.  

The issue is that he was already moving to the right... because he bailed.  And by the time he's moving to the right, his eyes are on the LDE, not the receivers.   Had he not done the little jump in the pocket once he hit the top of his drop, and instead set his feet to throw left, the throw is there and if he throws it before the receiver makes the cut to the outside, like he should... that's an 'easy' pitch and catch by NFL standards.   There was no need to change the play.  The out pattern is there for a completion at the sticks.  

[BigEFly]

24 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

It's not just the excuses, it's the how dare you criticize him take too.  These Hurts fans don't even want you to question what he's doing or ask if he's getting better.  How dare you. 

Hurtscuses?  I don’t see that in this discussion. Hurts failed on that play but that wasn’t the only failure on that play.  

[BigEFly]

25 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

That's a guess but probably not a good one. 

More likely,  Jalen was concerned about the narrative of him throwing to Brown too much.  He got upset when reporters asked him about it. 

Given the coaches have talked about scripting the plays and that Shane and Nick call the plays, especially in preseason, I am going to disagree with you about that.  

[BigEFly]

26 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Brown runs a simple out route, and breaks open right as he makes the cut to the sideline. Hurts is already bailing out at the cut, when if he just stayed in the pocket he would've had an easy throw for a first. 

Yep.  Pocket awareness was a fail.  But Johnson had lost contact with his player (which is why the step back to the right was so bad.  By the time Opeta’s assignment moves, if Hurts had taken a half step up and to the right, squared, he could have hit Brown but that long step back to the right killed that chance. 

[Iggles_Phan]

Hurts at the top of his drop.  No pressure... WR about to break open to his left.  You can see that the WR has outside leverage on the DB, and is running an out.  It will be there.

A moment later...

 

The ball should be out in that top picture, or just a moment later.    Please note... Johnson had perfect position in that top picture.   The idea that he had lost contact is inaccurate.

[Utebird]

36 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I think it's really a discussion on how much has Hurts developed vs how much is Hurts still the same guy.

J.T. O'Sullivan really liked Hurts' footwork on the film breakdown of all his throws against the Jets.  I haven't studied Hurts' footwork on his throws and compared it to last season, but hopefully O'Sullivan is onto something there -- because that would likely lead to better accuracy.

 

On his TD throw o Sullivan mentioned he got a little heel clicky. 

At this point I'd like to see hurts avoid minor footwork snafu.

He also seems to take little hops I stead of setting a solid base and driving the ball, which might account for his reportedly coming up short multiple times on long balls.

I thought his first throw on the run was impressive, it was accurate and showed good velocity.

When he's stationary and delivering from the pocket his footwork seems to be pretty inconsistent.

 

[DawkinsOwnage03]

Why bash a guy we have no option but to start? Like Herbert’s just grow on trees or we turned something down that was better.

 

[Iggles_Phan]

2 minutes ago, Utebird said:

On his TD throw o Sullivan mentioned he got a little heel clicky. 

At this point I'd like to see hurts avoid minor footwork snafu.

He also seems to rake little hops I stead of setting a solid base and driving the ball, which might account for his reportedly coming up short multiple times on long balls.

I thought his first throw on the run was impressive, it was accurate and showed good velocity.

When he's stationary and delivering from the pocket his footwork seems to be pretty inconsistent.

Something you'd think would be worked on with a guru.   And frankly, its why the idea that he's running in 7v7 is completely discouraging for growth.  I'd take a throw away in 7v7 as a productive rep for him and his footwork.  

[Utebird]

10 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Hurts at the top of his drop.  No pressure... WR about to break open to his left.  You can see that the WR has outside leverage on the DB, and is running an out.  It will be there.

A moment later...

 

The ball should be out in that top picture, or just a moment later.    Please note... Johnson had perfect position in that top picture.   The idea that he had lost contact is inaccurate.

I'm guessing this is the 3rd down play where hurts bailed and took the late hit???

[Shalodeep]

2 minutes ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

Why bash a guy we have no option but to start? Like Herbert’s just grow on trees or we turned something down that was better.

 

Being critical of a bad product is part of the fan experience 

[Iggles_Phan]

3 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I'm guessing this is the 3rd down play where hurts bailed and took the late hit???

Yes.

[Utebird]

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Something you'd think would be worked on with a guru.   And frankly, its why the idea that he's running in 7v7 is completely discouraging for growth.  I'd take a throw away in 7v7 as a productive rep for him and his footwork.  

Yup, I said this a few days ago, but if I'm a coach and my QB takes off running in a non contact 7 on7 passing drill I'm sitting that QB down and putting someone in who will throw the ball 

QB running in 7on7 is a wasted rep for everybody, even if his throw is incomplete or intercepted or he forces it into triple coverage at least he's trying things out from the pocket I stead of just taking off running where the defense can't touch him.

Everytime he takes off running in 7on7 is a failure for him as a passer.

[NCiggles]

32 minutes ago, Swoop said:

No, I'm looking at the right one. If he had any anticipation he hits Brown who can proceed to turn up field and score. There was no safety there. 

On top of that, Brown eventually flipped and went back towards the center, becoming wide open for a walk in TD. Now, I'll give you that he likely flipped sooner because Jalen took off. Having said that, he likely flips anyway (though likely just goes up field) and doesn't continue onward through the sidelines if Hurts is still in the pocket. The corner had has back turned the entire time.

There's a safety in the middle of the field that would have had an angle on Brown.  

 

26 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Sorry but I think you're completely wrong here. Brown runs a simple out route, and breaks open right as he makes the cut to the sideline. Hurts is already bailing out at the cut, when if he just stayed in the pocket he would've had an easy throw for a first. 

Hurts left the pocket early but I don't think he left when there was someone wide open.  He possibly could have just stayed put and made the throw to Brown.  I also am not sure that he could have stepped up to make the throw.  I get it that he could have made a throw to Brown.  If he was set on having to pass the ball but it's not like the Tampa game where he has Watkins open on a post route but he takes off instead.  I don't think it's a terrible play by him to run.  My point would also be that it's not likely that Hurts makes a great throw to Brown.    I don't think he's at the point where he makes that throw for a completion.  

43 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Johnson wasn't beat... at all.   Johnson stonewalled his man.

I guess my sense was that was where he perceived the pressure from and why he ran so soon.  I think that's why everyone is saying he should have stepped up to make a throw.  

[mattwill]

17 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I am not against Jurgens on the field.  Seumalo wouldn't be on the bench long.  Injuries happen.  Opeta already had to start in the first preseason game.  Having 6 'starting' OL works in the NFL.

I prefer 7 starting OL with an extra OT and an extra interior Lineman.

[NCiggles]

57 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

How was vaca and where did you go?

Down to Surf City, NC.  It's on Topsail Island.  It's a pretty quiet family beach and there's some decent restaurants nearby.  It was hot but pretty good beach weather. 

[TorontoEagle]

3 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

There's a safety in the middle of the field that would have had an angle on Brown.  

 

Hurts left the pocket early but I don't think he left when there was someone wide open.  He possibly could have just stayed put and made the throw to Brown.  I also am not sure that he could have stepped up to make the throw.  I get it that he could have made a throw to Brown.  If he was set on having to pass the ball but it's not like the Tampa game where he has Watkins open on a post route but he takes off instead.  I don't think it's a terrible play by him to run.  My point would also be that it's not likely that Hurts makes a great throw to Brown.    I don't think he's at the point where he makes that throw for a completion.  

I guess my sense was that was where he perceived the pressure from and why he ran so soon.  I think that's why everyone is saying he should have stepped up to make a throw.  

If our starting QB can't make a 5 yard out throw....what the hell are we even doing. 

This is why I advocate for an open competition amongst the QBs. It's absurd. 

[BigEFly]

21 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It wouldn't be a throw across his body if he read the defense and had hung in the pocket like an NFL QB.  Yes, the window is small, but it's a 'big' window for an NFL throw.  A 5 yard out to the left is not a throw that should be hard for an NFL QB, even from the 'far' hash, but he was on the 'near' hash.  

The issue is that he was already moving to the right... because he bailed.  And by the time he's moving to the right, his eyes are on the LDE, not the receivers.   Had he not done the little jump in the pocket once he hit the top of his drop, and instead set his feet to throw left, the throw is there and if he throws it before the receiver makes the cut to the outside, like he should... that's an 'easy' pitch and catch by NFL standards.   There was no need to change the play.  The out pattern is there for a completion at the sticks.  

We said the same thing except it wasn’t hanging in the pocket he needed to do here it was where to move in the pocket.  Half step up to the right and square. We both agree long and back to the right was the wrong move and I agree with you that is a habit move for him.   But once he moved right it is a throw across his body.  Hence my comment that isn’t an average NFL QB throw, that’s an Elway throw.  And if he threw it across his body in preseason, even if he made the throw by some miracle, I would hope Sirianni would chew him out on that during film review because that would be a stupid throw for any of the QBs on the Eagles roster.

[Utebird]

6 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

There's a safety in the middle of the field that would have had an angle on Brown.  

 

Hurts left the pocket early but I don't think he left when there was someone wide open.  He possibly could have just stayed put and made the throw to Brown.  I also am not sure that he could have stepped up to make the throw.  I get it that he could have made a throw to Brown.  If he was set on having to pass the ball but it's not like the Tampa game where he has Watkins open on a post route but he takes off instead.  I don't think it's a terrible play by him to run.  My point would also be that it's not likely that Hurts makes a great throw to Brown.    I don't think he's at the point where he makes that throw for a completion.  

I guess my sense was that was where he perceived the pressure from and why he ran so soon.  I think that's why everyone is saying he should have stepped up to make a throw.  

If hurts isn't at the point where he can make that out throw to brown on the short hash then I'm not sure he'll ever be there???

That's a pretty routine throw for a starting NFL QB, not being able to make that throw limits ones offense.

I'd assume hurts doesnt trust his arm on that out breaking route, not enough velocity or too far Inside and it's a pick 6 going the other way and again it's not like it's an out to the far hash this is a throw to the short hash which isn't a really tough throw at least not for most NFL qbs.

[UndyTaker]

1 hour ago, BigEFly said:

And why would Hurts know that?  Because the coaches had shared the script with him.  This isn’t a game planned game designed to win, it’s designed to evaluate certain players.  The design of this play was to have certain receivers in certain routes to evaluate their route running and probably had a specific target in mind for that.  

Of course. Wouldnt want Brown to be confused why he isnt getting targeted, so lets have his best friend fill him in on the details.

[ManuManu]

33 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Hurts at the top of his drop.  No pressure... WR about to break open to his left.  You can see that the WR has outside leverage on the DB, and is running an out.  It will be there.

A moment later...

 

The ball should be out in that top picture, or just a moment later.    Please note... Johnson had perfect position in that top picture.   The idea that he had lost contact is inaccurate.

My eyes are failing me. Who is the WR at the top of the screen?