May 12May 12 I'll reiterate that it's absolutely freaking remarkable how little help the scouting process and farm system has provided the Phillies (and how little it's going to help over the next 2 years).@e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! you'll point out Sanchez...and he was no doubt a brilliant (if not extremely dumb lucky) addition. But he was also traded to the Phillies at like 23, immediately added to the MLB roster, and never played below AAA Lehigh in their system. That's a phenomenal trade worthy of major props, but it's not some system home grown success story.The whole damn point of this season was the transition and arrival of some of their hyped prospects was supposed to help the big league club because they were too cash strapped to buy their help. And the Painter/Crawford arrival has done almost nothing to help them. Crawford is exceeding expectations in batting average by gutting out the grounders he's slapping around, but has been a bit inconsistent in center, hasn't been a demon on the basepaths, and is putting it all together to the tune of a every day negative WAR player. And we don't need to get started on Painter. I understand it's very, very early for them as individual prospects. But it's not early to bash the crap out of DD and the franchise for the fact that year in, year out they get ZERO FREAKING HELP FROM ASCENDING YOUNG PLAYERS FROM THEIR FARM SYSTEM. It's absolutely infuriating.Once per decade, they'll get a Ranger Suarez. Once every 5 years, they'll get a Stott. And there is no imminent boost on the way.
May 12May 12 8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:The biggest issue this year is that their starting pitching depth has fallen off a cliff, which should have been somewhat foreseeable.Wheeler has already exceeded expectations and been statistically excellent, but I actually think he's going to dip as the year goes on into more of a 2/3. We can't keep expecting so much from him. Sanchez is a stud. After that 1-2 punch, it's absolutely awful. Luzardo is talented but woefully inconsistent and is settling into a big down year. And Nola and Painter don't belong in a rotation.They went from absolutely incredible depth to only 2 guys you feel good about starting. And, more importantly, the starting rotation went from a huge strength that overcame other flaws to being a flaw.Luzardo is kind of an enigma. Cause the strikeout numbers and swinging miss numbers are really good. I wanna say somebody had his swing and miss rate is like second in the league in terms of whiff and his stuff has been actually good. His biggest issue so far this year is he has one good game then in like every other or every three starts, he just implodes for an inning.Nola and painter both have issues. Frankly Nola is what he is at this stage of his career. At least painter you have hope Cotham can help with his development and maybe he starts figuring things out.
May 12May 12 Just now, eagle45 said:I'll reiterate that it's absolutely freaking remarkable how little help the scouting process and farm system has provided the Phillies (and how little it's going to help over the next 2 years).@e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! you'll point out Sanchez...and he was no doubt a brilliant (if not extremely dumb lucky) addition. But he was also traded to the Phillies at like 23, immediately added to the MLB roster, and never played below AAA Lehigh in their system. That's a phenomenal trade worthy of major props, but it's not some system home grown success story.The whole damn point of this season was the transition and arrival of some of their hyped prospects was supposed to help the big league club because they were too cash strapped to buy their help. And the Painter/Crawford arrival has done almost nothing to help them. Crawford is exceeding expectations in batting average by gutting out the grounders he's slapping around, but has been a bit inconsistent in center, hasn't been a demon on the basepaths, and is putting it all together to the tune of a every day negative WAR player. And we don't need to get started on Painter. I understand it's very, very early for them as individual prospects. But it's not early to bash the crap out of DD and the franchise for the fact that year in, year out they get ZERO FREAKING HELP FROM ASCENDING YOUNG PLAYERS FROM THEIR FARM SYSTEM. It's absolutely infuriating.Once per decade, they'll get a Ranger Suarez. Once every 5 years, they'll get a Stott.Again with Sanchez is why you would want painter in the major leagues with Cotham learning how to pitch. Because Cotham was the guy who helped Sanchez get his career where it was as he was about to be a career minor leaguer til then. This is why sending painter down makes no sense to work with LHVAlso, who is saying the minor leagues and their farm system is good? I would argue it’s not great or good. However, it is still better than they were a decade ago. Which is sad because you know how bad they had to be a decade ago to be where they are now and it be considered better.
May 12May 12 1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:Again with Sanchez is why you would want painter in the major leagues with Cotham learning how to pitch. Because Cotham was the guy who helped Sanchez get his career where it was as he was about to be a career minor leaguer. This is why sending painter down makes no sense to work with LHVI'm sure Cotham is great, but getting battered start after start isn't good for development either. But it's not about Painter. Maybe he is the next Zach Wheeler. It's about the system and how utterly useless it is and likely will continue to be. They could lose their top 15 prospects right now and their top 10 prospects from the last 5 years and I'm not sure what difference it would make to the franchise.
May 12May 12 Just now, eagle45 said:I'm sure Cotham is great, but getting battered start after start isn't good for development either.But it's not about Painter. Maybe he is the next Zach Wheeler. It's about the system and how utterly useless it is and likely will continue to be. They could lose their top 15 prospects right now and their top 10 prospects from the last 5 years and I'm not sure what difference it would make to the franchise.It may be useless right now, but you can’t just trade every prospect. that’s not a good solution to fixing the problem. Add on if they’re useless and you know it, and then other teams know that which I’m guessing they do you’re not gonna get the value you think you are. Hence, maybe why some of the trades you wanted they couldn’t get done or they needed to drastically overpay to do it for short term solution. I’d also point out before they had Ruiz, Howard, Hamels, Rollins and utley in the system, they were also pretty useless. The only position player that was good for like a decade until that point was rolen. Otherwise, they were a bunch of disasters.
May 12May 12 Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:It may be useless right now, but you can’t just trade every prospect. that’s not a good solution to fixing the problem. Add on if they’re useless and your freedom, and other teams know that which I’m guessing they do you’re not gonna get the value you think you are.I may not be making myself clear when I **** about their overhyped prospects. I never really wanted to trade Painter or Miller. I never even wanted to trade Mick Abel, who is working his way towards being a bust (and probably was a good trade all things considered). I'm just immeasurably frustrated by the year over year failure and disappointment of their most hyped prospects and, consequently, hold extremely little hope for the future of the team; I can't allow myself to get excited or value the current top prospects anywhere near the level that everyone else does. I just see the next great disappointments in all of them. And to that end, they all appear to be well on track.That said, this franchise is at a point where they need to clutch and build their prospect pool, not ship it out.
May 12May 12 Just now, eagle45 said:I may not be making myself clear when I **** about their overhyped prospects. I never really wanted to trade Painter or Miller. I never even wanted to trade Mick Abel, who is working his way towards being a bust (and probably was a good trade all things considered). I'm just immeasurably frustrated by the year over year failure and disappointment of their most hyped prospects and, consequently, hold extremely little hope for the future of the team; I can't allow myself to get excited or value the current top prospects anywhere near the level that everyone else does. I just see the next great disappointments in all of them. And to that end, they all appear to be well on track.That said, this franchise is at a point where they need to clutch and build their prospect pool, not ship it out.I don’t disagree with you that it’s not very good. Again it’s still better than once a decade ago. A decade ago they were terrible. At least at this point they’re bad and actually have trade chips when they needed to make trades. I am not sure you could say that from 2012 to 2018 besides maybe like an nola and dom Brown.The issue to me is more the Phillies hires for baseball Ops/general managers that aren’t good building their farm system. Dave Dombrowski has never been good at building a farm system. Even when he was with Boston and the tigers. He depleted their farm system rather than build it up to what it is. Amaro was the same way and klentak was just awful and wasted high picks. frankly last GM that truly built a good farm was Wade. Never gets the credit but he did it here and Houston. I’d say gillick but he really wasn’t here long enough. But he at least left amaro with some pieces that he could use to trade away to get guys he needed to extend that run. I’d also add he’s the reason why we had Jayson werth and Shane Victorino. Without him we don’t have either of those guys so he was good at identifying talent to bring in.I’d also add to this as highly ranked as Yankees prospects are year after year and they have Aaron Judge but a lot of them are expected to be good and they never become that. I think they have one of the most overrated farm systems and all the baseball. every year they have all these guys that MLB talks about, then it rarely comes to fruition that they pan out with the Yankees or somewhere else. The Yankees in the early 2000s had that. Now they’re just all overrated and not nearly as good as hyped up when they come up.
May 12May 12 4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:what i was saying at triple A, their pitching stinks.That’s a DD failure. A president of operations and a system have the responsibility of having at least one arm on the AAA roster at all times that can get called up and provide a below average, but not embarrassingly unprepared MLB start.You aren’t always going to have some Painter level exciting prospect sitting there waiting to be called up, but the AAA club needs to have someone at all times ready to go up and deliver a start if called upon. That’s negligence.
May 12May 12 1 minute ago, eagle45 said:That’s a DD failure. A president of operations and a system have the responsibility of having at least one arm on the AAA roster at all times that can get called up and provide a below average, but not embarrassingly unprepared MLB start.You aren’t always going to have some Painter level exciting prospect sitting there waiting to be called up, but the AAA club needs to have someone at all times ready to go up and deliver a start if called upon. That’s negligence.This is why I made the argument when they traded Bailey falter that it was dumb. Not that falter is some great pitcher. But he gave you at least a guy if somebody got hurt or wasn’t pitching well and you needed to give him a break that he could come up and be capable of a fifth starter at the major league level. they traded him for absolute garbage on top of that. It wasn’t some backbreaking trade. But it was just idiotic, knowing that you didn’t have pitching depth. add on you then made multiple trades with pitchers knowing didn’t have great depth and some of these guys could’ve been that depth.
May 12May 12 People always complain about the managers or the head coach coaches, but in reality, it’s the front office that has the most impact and as you can see three of the teams have horrible front offices or at least the flyers did and what do you get seasons that suck
May 12May 12 2 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:People always complain about the managers or the head coach coaches, but in reality, it’s the front office that has the most impact and as you can see three of the teams have horrible front offices or at least the flyers did and what do you get seasons that suckWhy i complained more about Dave than Thomson. Thomson wasn’t great but Dave is the one who gave him the roster with a ton of holes in it and farm system not progressing to where it should
May 13May 13 Between the surgery he went through last year and the fact that his velocity was meaningfully down in his rehab starts, I really thought Wheeler would fade into a mid-rotation type of starter this year.
May 13May 13 9 hours ago, eagle45 said:Between the surgery he went through last year and the fact that his velocity was meaningfully down in his rehab starts, I really thought Wheeler would fade into a mid-rotation type of starter this year.Really? That's surprising. Normally your optimism leaps off the screen!
May 13May 13 5 hours ago, mikemack8 said:Really? That's surprising. Normally your optimism leaps off the screen!I have tried giving him tips on how to look at the positives in things, it is better for overall health
May 13May 13 You can see Painter’s potential. That slider is filthy. If and when he can get a hold of his command he is going to be just fine.
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