Did Aidan Miller get euthanized?

2 short years ago, Miller and Painter were as hyped as it gets. It could be 5 years from that time point before either one of them does anything to actually help the big league club.

34 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Did Aidan Miller get euthanized?

2 short years ago, Miller and Painter were as hyped as it gets. It could be 5 years from that time point before either one of them does anything to actually help the big league club.

On the painter front, the Phillies organizationally screwed him out of 2 years instead of just 1-1.5 years of missed time. He needed TJ in March of 2023. Instead of having it in March, they didn’t want too and tried to rehab it which usually doesn’t work. So then he has it in late July. Basically cost him 2023 and 2024. If he has it in March of 2023 then he’s back June/july of 2024. Gets some innings in for 3-4 months and is ready for 2025. The plan they choose delayed him for 2 years and innings restricted him when he came back in 2025. He was never Paul skenes. Skenes is a unicorn. When painter was drafted he had control problems. It’s why he wasn’t picked in the top 3. He had stuff but needed refinement and control work. Not having 2 years and then inning restriction doesn’t help this issue.

He’s a month into his MLB career. Been plenty of solid and good pitchers to do it. Heck skubal his first 8 starts of his career had a 5.63 ERA. The following year his first 8 starts he had a 5.73 era. Expecting him to be skenes is kind of a stretch. skenes was as good if not better than wheeler. That’s super rare as a rookie to be that elite off the bat.

With Miller, his projected mlb date was 2027. There was hope it might be earlier after the trade deadline in 2026. But he’s also still 21 years old and they don’t seem to want to rush him. Frankly he’s not saving the Phillies. Crawford has been solid for a rookie but even he isn’t saving this lineup. I’m guessing they are moving slower with him as the organization really doesn’t expect him for 2026. I’m guessing their timeline compared to fans and others was always 2027 when Bohm was gone and potentially dealing Stott away and Sosa being gone. Gives him more playing options at 3B and 2B for playing time.

don’t even think it’s Mattingly it’s cotham. Cotham has been really good his entire tenure here outside of the first month. So you knew that would eventually turn around. Issue is their hitting is still an issue. They’ve played 7 games. Scored 3 or less in 3 games. So they are still very all or nothing. Just weren’t completely nothing like it had been with Thomson.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

Did Aidan Miller get euthanized?

2 short years ago, Miller and Painter were as hyped as it gets. It could be 5 years from that time point before either one of them does anything to actually help the big league club.

Until proven otherwise, Aidan Miller to me is gonna be known as Mr. Balky Back. Chances are good he has a chronic/ degenerative back issue that will plague him his whole career, however long that is. Im not putting much stock in him. Hope I'm wrong.

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

On the painter front, the Phillies organizationally screwed him out of 2 years instead of just 1-1.5 years of missed time. He needed TJ in March of 2023. Instead of having it in March, they didn’t want too and tried to rehab it which usually doesn’t work. So then he has it in late July. Basically cost him 2023 and 2024. If he has it in March of 2023 then he’s back June/july of 2024. Gets some innings in for 3-4 months and is ready for 2025. The plan they choose delayed him for 2 years and innings restricted him when he came back in 2025. He was never Paul skenes. Skenes is a unicorn. When painter was drafted he had control problems. It’s why he wasn’t picked in the top 3. He had stuff but needed refinement and control work. Not having 2 years and then inning restriction doesn’t help this issue.

He’s a month into his MLB career. Been plenty of solid and good pitchers to do it. Heck skubal his first 8 starts of his career had a 5.63 ERA. The following year his first 8 starts he had a 5.73 era. Expecting him to be skenes is kind of a stretch. skenes was as good if not better than wheeler. That’s super rare as a rookie to be that elite off the bat.

With Miller, his projected mlb date was 2027. There was hope it might be earlier after the trade deadline in 2026. But he’s also still 21 years old and they don’t seem to want to rush him. Frankly he’s not saving the Phillies. Crawford has been solid for a rookie but even he isn’t saving this lineup. I’m guessing they are moving slower with him as the organization really doesn’t expect him for 2026. I’m guessing their timeline compared to fans and others was always 2027 when Bohm was gone and potentially dealing Stott away and Sosa being gone. Gives him more playing options at 3B and 2B for playing time.

Everything you say is right. But when a pitcher goes 3 years without having success, they fall into a bin of patience. Sure, Painter could be Wheeler 2.0. But 23 year olds still figuring it out after tj surgery with good stuff but who haven't recaptured their pre-surgery arm angle and swing-and-miss stuff and are struggling to get through the lineup beyond the 4th inning...yeah, some of them are future cy-young winners and some of them are headed to the bullpen. Painter's certainty of success is getting lower with each passing season in which he's not actually having success. And they are starting to add up.

I guarantee you (And you know this), he wouldn't get nearly as much in a trade right now as he would have 3 years ago. His value might actually be 50% of that.

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Everything you say is right. But when a pitcher goes 3 years without having success, they fall into a bin of patience. Sure, Painter could be Wheeler 2.0. But 23 year olds still figuring it out after tj surgery with good stuff but who haven't recaptured their pre-surgery arm angle and swing-and-miss stuff and are struggling to get through the lineup beyond the 4th inning...yeah, some of them are future cy-young winners and some of them are headed to the bullpen. Painter's certainty of success is getting lower with each passing season in which he's not actually having success. And they are starting to add up.

I guarantee you (And you know this), he wouldn't get nearly as much in a trade right now as he would have 3 years ago. His value might actually be 50% of that.

Well, they wouldn’t have gotten anything three years ago cause he had Tommy John surgery three years ago. They were expecting him to make the roster in 2023 until he got his elbow messed up and Tommy John surgery. It’s hard to blame him when he didn’t pitch for two years then the year he came back they put him on an in innings restriction. So really this year it’s gonna be the most he’s pitched in the last 4 years.

His value is lower, but they were never going to trade him anyways. They wanted him to eventually be the successor to Nola and the upside was potentially he could’ve been wheeler. They were never gonna trade him so that value didn’t matter. Add on we had no clue Sanchez would become what he has since 2024 an we didn’t have luzardo. Looking at it now they needed painter to be there because they didn’t know what Christopher Sanchez was, they didn’t have luzardo, they didn’t want to give Ranger a long-term contract because he never stayed healthy. So you needed him to pan out at that point in time going forward. Because Wheeler was gonna retire sooner rather than later and Nola was gonna start to decline. And after them, you really didn’t have a whole lot in your stable in terms of knows in 2023.

You wanna trade every prospect they ever have. We wouldn’t have Sanchez right now and we wouldn’t have had Ranger doing it that way. You can’t build a sustainable World Series team just trading every prospect to go in on now. The upside that painter potentially had they valued more than overpaying for a mediocre bat that you and others kept wanting. no offense people wanted at one point to trade him for Luis Robert jr. Who’s the same player now with the Mets and it currently hurt. He sucks. Again it’s easy to be like we should just trade all of our prospects to go in now, but that doesn’t guarantee you a World Series. And the upside painter had before the injury was ridiculously high. No GM is trading that unless you are getting a superstar. Fyi not a lot of superstars traded and definitely wasn’t just painter going. Probably parting with painter, Crawford, miller and potentially mlb player like Sanchez when he wasn’t what he was today back then.

That said guys are making definitives off of 6 starts in his career at the major league level and a rehab season worth of innings. a lot of you guys would’ve said to trade away skubial after his first 16 starts we had a 5.7+ ERA and wasted his value to the tigers. I’m not saying he’s going to be skubial but the overreaction to 6 starts at the major league level is really ridiculous. If this were end of the year and he continued to be what he is then have the discussion. But 6 starts to a MLB career is really ridiculous. Hypothetically what happens if he hits his stride in June to the end of the season, then what? It was good that they kept him. Not enough info at this level to know what he is and isn’t. Especially in 2023 when Ranger wasn’t what he became and oft injured, eflin was leaving, Sanchez wasn’t even in the equation and we didn’t acquire luzardo. At that point in time in 2024 they badly needed him to pan out. Add in he’s also gotten screwed in some games by poor defense (marsh) and poor managerial decisions (Thomson)

Wheeler continuously got hurt for the Mets. His value when he came up was higher than any other point in time before he left the Mets. And yet he became a cy young type pitcher over the course of time in his career. I’m not saying he’s going to become that but there’s a reason why you don’t let guys like that out of your organization if you believe they had that potential upside. Ask the Mets how they feel about wheeler right now. Because if you do and they reach it and you get a Roberts jr or just a solid player it looks worse. They could’ve dealt painter and got Tucker. Tucker would’ve walked after a year and then you don’t win a WS and if painter hits it looks worse

Just point out with painter his max value was 2023. At that point in time this is what the Phillies had for the future of their rotation 

Wheeler- cy young candidate and was 33 years old. Likely had 4-5 years left at that point 

Nola— was entering last year of his contract. There was talk that he could be gone at the end of the season. frankly they should’ve let him walk instead of that contract. So couldn’t count on him being here past 2023

Ranger— coming off a good postseason and a 3.65 ERA in 29 starts in 2022. So he was seen as a 3rd starter by most at that point. Credit to him because he became even more

Taijuan Walker— he was always signed to be a 4-5 starter and he sucked. 

Sanchez— had a 5.63 ERA in 2022 in 21 appearances with the Phillies. Was believed he had good stuff but control issues that would prevent him from becoming more than a back end of the rotation guy. So he was an afterthought. 

Bailey falter— 5th starter coming into the season

So essentially going forward you had wheeler and ranger who were known commodities and hoping Walker panned out. Otherwise Nola could possibly leave (in fact I’d bet if painter pitched in 2023 and was good that very well might be the case), Walker who wound up sucking and Sanchez who at that time looked like a mediocre run of the mill pitching prospect. Next best pitcher the Phillies had in their farm system was Bailey falter. Not exactly thrilling and they’d have had to overspend like they did with Walker to build that up.

They could not afford to trade away painter at that time. Because your 2024 projected rotation if Sanchez didn’t develop into what he do with cotham and Nola would’ve left would have been Wheeler, Ranger, and then Walker. They kind of needed painter to establish what he was but he got hurt and Sanchez hit big which was very much unexpected. Sanchez becoming what he did and Ranger taking another a massive step really saved their ass

After 2023 if you were trading painter, you were alway trading him at a lower value regardless unless he stayed healthy and pitched well. So talking about what his value was in 2023 makes no difference cause they weren’tever trading him in 2023 based off what their projections look like going into 2023 and the future 

Sanchez just absolutely dealing tonight

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Sanchez just absolutely dealing tonight

That’s good to see from him. Really need him to be like this more often

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Trade him and Stott before it's too late

Sosa is a ballplayer

12 minutes ago, RoadToHell said:

Sosa is a ballplayer

Marsh actually hitting lefties is a revelation.

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Marsh actually hitting lefties is a revelation.

That was a double play but the As are dumb. With that said he’s been incredible lately

2 minutes ago, RoadToHell said:

That was a double play but the As are dumb. With that said he’s been incredible lately

Usually he strikes out so baby steps

The Keller dude straight up sucks. Another terrible Dombrowski signing.

Just now, Blazehound said:

The Keller dude straight up sucks. Another terrible Dombrowski signing.

he might as well be Helen Keller with the way he pitches

The thing I will say about Mattingly that Thomson never did was let Marsh and Stott play against lefties and he’s giving them opportunities to play everyday which is actually benefiting them right now. Thomson never gave these guys a chance just threw them in cold so I like what Mattingly is doing so far

Garcia is much better than castellanos

3 games out of a wild card spot

8 hours ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Garcia is much better than castellanos

Casty is hitting a lusty .191 with a.527 OPS. Garcia is an immense upgrade. Dombrowski is still a moron for Casty a 5 year contract.

Maybe Casty should have been just 5 years.

I was happy when we signed Casty and Schwarber. We needed help.

11 hours ago, RoadToHell said:

The thing I will say about Mattingly that Thomson never did was let Marsh and Stott play against lefties and he’s giving them opportunities to play everyday which is actually benefiting them right now. Thomson never gave these guys a chance just threw them in cold so I like what Mattingly is doing so far

Yeah, I like it especially with Marsh. Guy has been on fire the whole season so far - 40 hits in 119 ABs. Gotta keep him starting everyday at this point I would think.

10 hours ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Garcia is much better than castellanos

Issue is Garcia and Castellanos making $30 plus tax in RF. Production you are getting isn’t worth that price. Credit to Garcia as he’s been better lately since they changed his hand placement on the bat in Chicago.

the fact is he was only player who hit in the postseason consistently. But really he should’ve been gone after 2024. We’re never getting what they wanted as he was never the player they thought they were dealing. Would’ve been better off trading him to get a BP piece then adding a 3B elsewhere